Developers Corner

Why do you guys have to make everything in a game so complicated? Is simple just like so insanely appaling that it is beyond consideration?

1. make every item in game player made and tradable except max stat reward items.

2. set a price on every item in game by difficulty and time it takes to obtain the item.

3. make every item in game useful to any player no matter how high level they get.

4. make a market where players sell their items to the market and get their money immediately, other players can then buy same items from market at the same price it was sold for.

5. players make money doing everything in game so  no matter what activity they choose to do win or lose it is rewarding and fun.

6. game site itself sell in game money, not items instead of an item shop therefore warding off real world traders and increasing total amount received per month for the game. Allowing them to actually have a lower monthly sub for all members because even if you set a game at $10 a month for all content, and sell gold for $5 per million, you can still make $20 in gold + $10 membership fee from customers a month.

problems solved. is it really that hard?

ps. items can still be traded directly to other players, so they can still give away free stuff and gifts to their friends.

Originally posted by deviliscious

Why do you guys have to make everything in a game so complicated? Is simple just like so insanely appaling that it is beyond consideration?

1. make every item in game player made and tradable except max stat reward items.

2. set a price on every item in game by difficulty and time it takes to obtain the item.

3. make every item in game useful to any player no matter how high level they get.

4. make a market where players sell their items to the market and get their money immediately, other players can then buy same items from market at the same price it was sold for.

5. players make money doing everything in game so  no matter what activity they choose to do win or lose it is rewarding and fun.

6. game site itself sell in game money, not items instead of an item shop therefore warding off real world traders and increasing total amount received per month for the game. Allowing them to actually have a lower monthly sub for all members because even if you set a game at $10 a month for all content, and sell gold for $5 per million, you can still make $20 in gold + $10 membership fee from customers a month.

problems solved. is it really that hard?

1. Agreed to items being player made, but there also has to be other loot as well. People love loot, and usually from quest rewards, or drops. Max Stat reward items, as in "raid" items? I think I would like something that has a player driven economy, and the extra loot from mobs, bosses, etc. could be upgraded by a crafter. It seems this could promote different items, even if they are the same type.

2. Is this going for the max stat rewards you wanted? Players usually price their items on materials it takes to make, and time to gather. It sounds like you are saying EVERY item in game though. So now it becomes a NON player driven economy, because the "game" sets the prices? I don't like that. Maybe I misunderstood.

3. I ALMOST agree with this. Every item in game should be useful, but not to every person. Of course this is a generalization, so it's very hard to comment on this one.

4. Hmm ... I like player driven economies, much like in a SWG sense where you could setup your own vendor in your house to sell your items. If you just sell to a "game market", then you aren't really promoting the RPG in MMORPG. I have made a bunch of friends in different games just talking to crafters about their trade. It is fun to do that. But I guess this system could possibly work.

5. Usually in any game players make money by everything they do. A player can also make their own fun, and shouldn't really be paid for it. Although, crafters have fun I think, and they make a lot of money. So yes, I agree.

6. Hmm I really don't like this one. What if you have someone playing for entertainment purposes, but really can't afford the extra money each month? Now you are giving an unfair advantage to people who have money, and don't mind spending the extra money. You are also talking about people possibly spending hundreds of dollars a month just to be the best?

All in all some good ideas. Of course these answers are my opinion, and don't claim to know it all. Maybe if you re-tailored some of your options, it could be a viable solution.

1. I like the idea of allowing players to make all items, but why even have max stat reward items, their mere presence contridicts #3

2. Why limit prices of players goods?  it destroys the incentive to make and sell things as there is no way to have any advantage in the market, it takes away the competitiveness from players, if all silver swords were 50g then why does it matter who I buy it from.

3. That is a good idea to make it where items do not just become obsolete

4. This makes no sense as players would then be rewarded for merely making things, not making things people want to buy.  This takes the strategy and planning out of business, as long as you make things you will be rewarded, not to mention this opens up the ability to farm money , while flooding the market with junk.

5. Fun maybe but rewarding not really, if I agreed to protect the farm from goblins but I failed I shouldn't get anything, have to try again.

6. Then all the people that have lots of real world money to blow would have tons of in game money, this is bad because one I think it is unfair to gain money in game for not actually playing the game, but with the price limit you have a few players that can afford anything they want while the other players cannot adjust their prices hence the rich get richer while the poor stay poor.

Originally posted by Mehjrian

 

Hmm .. I don't think I agree with these. Let me explain

 

1. Agreed to items being player made, but there also has to be other loot as well. People love loot, and usually from quest rewards, or drops. Max Stat reward items, as in "raid" items? I think I would like something that has a player driven economy, and the extra loot from mobs, bosses, etc. could be upgraded by a crafter. It seems this could promote different items, even if they are the same type.

I think you misunderstood, items can be player made and can be received in drops, so that no matter your taste in skills.. you can still get loot/ cash. Yes I want every item to be "upgradeable" that is why every item would be useful to every player, it can be upgraded or used to make something else.

2. Is this going for the max stat rewards you wanted? Players usually price their items on materials it takes to make, and time to gather. It sounds like you are saying EVERY item in game though. So now it becomes a NON player driven economy, because the "game" sets the prices? I don't like that. Maybe I misunderstood.

For the max stats rewards those are special rewards that are for players that have suffered to gain the levels they required to max out the counter. They earned them they deserve them, therefore they should be the only ones allowed to use them.  The game would need to set the prices to  keep the hard to obtain items higher in price than the stuff it take to make them. The skills  to make certain items , depends on the players levels in multiple catagories, but the more players who advance in those stats over time would cause a drop in the price of their work simply because more people would be making them. With a set price system, that cannot occur, they will always get a fair price for their hard work, and they should they earned  it.

3. I ALMOST agree with this. Every item in game should be useful, but not to every person. Of course this is a generalization, so it's very hard to comment on this one.

Say you make an armor for your low level character that isn;t as strong as what you could use when you get higher level, well if it was salvageable, you could use that item to make  your new armor once you gain the levels to wear it. You would also have upgrade options, to make each piece of armor or weapons be able to have different abilities determined by say the placement of different stones in it.  For example sapphire gives you a mage bonus, emerald gives you poison .

4. Hmm ... I like player driven economies, much like in a SWG sense where you could setup your own vendor in your house to sell your items. If you just sell to a "game market", then you aren't really promoting the RPG in MMORPG. I have made a bunch of friends in different games just talking to crafters about their trade. It is fun to do that. But I guess this system could possibly work.

The biggest problem with player driven economies is that once more players become higher levels in their skills the prices drop, and it makes it not worth it for new players to train those skills because they do not get paid enough for their work. There are other ways to socialize in the game and in the areas where people are making these items there will be players working to talk to. I also think there should be skill specific towns so that say you have a mining town everyone there can be mining and talking. most of the roleplaying in games is not centered around trading items, in fact most people are more suspiscious of each other when trading because they are worried about being ripped off. The areas where people are making items, or the places for entertainment  in the game would not take away from the  social aspects of the game. I think that if there is many recreational activities to do in the game would allow for more role playing and interaction between players. You have better conversations with people fishing in a game than you do merchanting.

5. Usually in any game players make money by everything they do. A player can also make their own fun, and shouldn't really be paid for it. Although, crafters have fun I think, and they make a lot of money. So yes, I agree.

I think players should be paid for pvp as well, so they basically get paid for either the amount of time spent fighting other players or they get paid determined by battle. say winner gets paid 5k per fight loser gets paid 1k , so if all you like to do is pvp you never have to kill a monster to make your game $.

6. Hmm I really don't like this one. What if you have someone playing for entertainment purposes, but really can't afford the extra money each month? Now you are giving an unfair advantage to people who have money, and don't mind spending the extra money. You are also talking about people possibly spending hundreds of dollars a month just to be the best?

Yes, but see if they are only selling in game cash, not items,  and if every thing you like to do in the game is profitable, them buying cash should not be an issue on your gameplay. It is when  they have item shops that limits content because of items, also you are not forced to buy in game cash, it is just there for the lazies so that the game does not get flooded with bots and real world traders.  Money will not make any player the best, there will be no in game rewards for who has the most $.. you have to earn everything in game with what you do not what you own, so that would not be an issue.

All in all some good ideas. Of course these answers are my opinion, and don't claim to know it all. Maybe if you re-tailored some of your options, it could be a viable solution.

Originally posted by CactusmanX

1. I like the idea of allowing players to make all items, but why even have max stat reward items, their mere presence contridicts #3

No, a max stat item is a reward for the effort and hard work it takes to get max stats, so that a goal oriented player would actually have something to show for their efforts. I even think that the player with the highest stat in each skill should have a statue with their name on it in the city that supports that field. for example the highest stat in range has a statue at the range guild, the player with the highest stat in mining has a statue of them in the miners guild.

It does not contradict #3 because every item being useful to every player does not mean they can use it is it's current form, making all items salvageable, and upgradeable allows for all items to be able to be used, just not all in  the same way.

2. Why limit prices of players goods?  it destroys the incentive to make and sell things as there is no way to have any advantage in the market, it takes away the competitiveness from players, if all silver swords were 50g then why does it matter who I buy it from.

the reason you set prices is that when players start gaining levels prices drop for higher level items, therefore the items become  worth less than the work it takes to get them. With set prices even new players get a good price for their work, even if they haven't played the game for 5 years, they still get the same price for the higher level items as the first person who got there. It doesn;t matter who you buy it from, you can get it immediately from the market, and the seller can get a fair price immediately from the market,  no tiem wasted trying to barter a better deal.

3. That is a good idea to make it where items do not just become obsolete

yes if you can upgrade and salvage items to suit your current needs there is no "useless item in the game.

4. This makes no sense as players would then be rewarded for merely making things, not making things people want to buy.  This takes the strategy and planning out of business, as long as you make things you will be rewarded, not to mention this opens up the ability to farm money , while flooding the market with junk.

people like to make things that are at the highest level and give the most xp regardless of demand usually. Then the market gets flooded with those items because they are the high xp items, so  this way they could make what they want and still amke a profit at it,  fun is the most important thing in a game, if a player is being forced to do things they do not think is fun in order to make $ in  a game they usually get sick of it and stop, if they can make $ doing anything they want, they do not have to stop having fun.

5. Fun maybe but rewarding not really, if I agreed to protect the farm from goblins but I failed I shouldn't get anything, have to try again.

you get less for participating, but more  for succeeding, that way if you have new players , or simply players that aren't very good, they can still make $ while doing things. The fact is not everyone that plays these games will ever be good at them, no matter how they try they just won't be, then they go whining about the game because it wasn;t fair to them. If  you allow them to at least get something for losing they will stop their whining and can have fun too. The only reason I put that in there as for the griefers, kill 2 birds with one stone=x.

6. Then all the people that have lots of real world money to blow would have tons of in game money, this is bad because one I think it is unfair to gain money in game for not actually playing the game, but with the price limit you have a few players that can afford anything they want while the other players cannot adjust their prices hence the rich get richer while the poor stay poor.

sure they can have $ and it stops real world traders, but with set prices they will not have an advantage because if  skills and  combat are not based on items there is only so many items they are going to need in  the game that money can buy. money cannot make you a better fighter, nor will there be a  max money reward in the game. That allows them to go around saying oh I am so rich, but even the poor guy can  slaughter them on the battlefield.

If the game itself does not sell in game cash, you get a ton of bots and rw traders in your game or you have to ruin gameplay to get rid of them. Why let all the other guys make the money instead of the developers? Why ruin a game by binding all your items? The game itself selling cash is the lesser of all the evils.  People are buying items and cash regardless if the game sells them or not, it happens anyways, so it would be better for the game to do it  than let all the bots take over you game.

Also since you make money doing basically everything in the game, the only way you would stay poor is if you just stand there and do nothin. lol

Originally posted by deviliscious

Originally posted by CactusmanX

1. I like the idea of allowing players to make all items, but why even have max stat reward items, their mere presence contridicts #3

No, a max stat item is a reward for the effort and hard work it takes to get max stats, so that a goal oriented player would actually have something to show for their efforts. I even think that the player with the highest stat in each skill should have a statue with their name on it in the city that supports that field. for example the highest stat in range has a statue at the range guild, the player with the highest stat in mining has a statue of them in the miners guild.

So are max stat items generally better than crafted items, like epic gear?  If they are then that makes it where you can't keep upgrading items, they do become obsolete as soon as you get the max stat gear.

2. Why limit prices of players goods?  it destroys the incentive to make and sell things as there is no way to have any advantage in the market, it takes away the competitiveness from players, if all silver swords were 50g then why does it matter who I buy it from.

the reason you set prices is that when players start gaining levels prices drop for higher level items, therefore the items become  worth less than the work it takes to get them. With set prices even new players get a good price for their work, even if they haven't played the game for 5 years, they still get the same price for the higher level items as the first person who got there. It doesn;t matter who you buy it from, you can get it immediately from the market, and the seller can get a fair price immediately from the market,  no tiem wasted trying to barter a better deal.

But I would argue that a fair price is whatever is agreed upon, the reason prices lower for most goods as time progresses is because more people can make them, you are increasing the supply of whatever good, so the price decreases, or there is a better item so that the demand for the other item decreases, lowering the price.

3. That is a good idea to make it where items do not just become obsolete

yes if you can upgrade and salvage items to suit your current needs there is no "useless item in the game.

4. This makes no sense as players would then be rewarded for merely making things, not making things people want to buy.  This takes the strategy and planning out of business, as long as you make things you will be rewarded, not to mention this opens up the ability to farm money , while flooding the market with junk.

people like to make things that are at the highest level and give the most xp regardless of demand usually. Then the market gets flooded with those items because they are the high xp items, so  this way they could make what they want and still amke a profit at it,  fun is the most important thing in a game, if a player is being forced to do things they do not think is fun in order to make $ in  a game they usually get sick of it and stop, if they can make $ doing anything they want, they do not have to stop having fun.

Well you never said people gained XP from making things, but still they are gaining money merely for making things not selling things, they are not productive members of the MMO society so to speak as they do not always provide goods that are in demand.  And I still think people would gravitate to what they can make cheaply and quickly and selling it in bulk.  And for an economy to work you need incentive to produce goods in high demand as opposed to others, otherwise demand for goods may never be met.

5. Fun maybe but rewarding not really, if I agreed to protect the farm from goblins but I failed I shouldn't get anything, have to try again.

you get less for participating, but more  for succeeding, that way if you have new players , or simply players that aren't very good, they can still make $ while doing things. The fact is not everyone that plays these games will ever be good at them, no matter how they try they just won't be, then they go whining about the game because it wasn;t fair to them. If  you allow them to at least get something for losing they will stop their whining and can have fun too. The only reason I put that in there as for the griefers, kill 2 birds with one stone=x.

I don't know maybe paying on a per kill basis or helping capture a tower or such, but getting things for losing, that sounds like it would be exploited, kind of a "ok now you kill me," thing, unless I am misunderstanding it.

6. Then all the people that have lots of real world money to blow would have tons of in game money, this is bad because one I think it is unfair to gain money in game for not actually playing the game, but with the price limit you have a few players that can afford anything they want while the other players cannot adjust their prices hence the rich get richer while the poor stay poor.

sure they can have $ and it stops real world traders, but with set prices they will not have an advantage because if  skills and  combat are not based on items there is only so many items they are going to need in  the game that money can buy. money cannot make you a better fighter, nor will there be a  max money reward in the game. That allows them to go around saying