Originally posted by skipeth 

CoS lacks end game content and there is no point in which character progression stops.  Therefore it lacks the inherent idea of builds which are integral to Diablo II and WoW. 

Not exactly true... CoS DOES include a climactic ending of the game story, though you may continue your character into the next sequel story. However, you are NOT required to reach that end game at any particular pace. You could hurry to the climax, or take you time waltzing through the daisies (or crushing maggotmen skulls, your choice). The point here though, is this is a story driven game, and you will eventually get to the climax and have that big payoff that ties up all the loose ends. We felt it was important to offer this ending, as it gives players something to work towards besides just improving their character forever.

CoS has much in common with a set of epic fantasy novels, there is a big story, you are an important part of that story, and you will be there for the big climax. Of course, unlike the novel, your path through that story will be your own.  How we achieve this for each player is something you will have to experience. The whole concept of players joining an advancing epic story in a dynamic world, with different players starting at different times... was a mind boggling design conundrum. I still lose sleep. But... we worked out how we will do it, and by yimminy, we're sticking to our guns... er, crossbows.

Thanks for the info. A climatic ending of the game story sounds way cooler than the traditional "end game content" designed for max-level, minmaxed characters with uber gear. Wow, you defeated the boss after playing for 1 week straight. Since your character is maxed, you get nothing. 2 X-Uber items drop that are given randomly to 2 of the 40 players involved with a 100% chance that the item will be unusable by the character who receives it. Wasn't that fun?

Trying to develop the story based dynamic world architecture, I'm surprised you didn't wake up with nightmares of infinite loops, stack overflows, spawning millions of non-locking threads, M. C. Escher, dead-locks, or the effects of special relativity on characters questing at near the speed of light approaching the climax.  I've pondered that question since the beginning of MMORPGs.  But as I don't write game software (unless you guys pay really well and are located in Austin) with a dynamic world in mind, I have never tried to find a solution.  I'm pretty excited to see what you have come up with.  And I bet you're just dying to tell us just how freakin' awesome it is!

  i am definatly looking forward to this game. The only other mmo that is in development mode that has my interest is SWTOR and that is because it is being done by bioware. I wan't personal story long quest that feel like you achieve something. 

I shouldn't say only game that interest me plenty of mmos' interest my but only this and SWtor i feel will hold me to any long time gameplay. Reading that quest sample on the website made my mouth water for the game.

If the game delivers I will be a happy person. 

Originally posted by Jatar

Originally posted by skipeth 

CoS lacks end game content and there is no point in which character progression stops.  Therefore it lacks the inherent idea of builds which are integral to Diablo II and WoW. 

 

Not exactly true... CoS DOES include a climactic ending of the game story, though you may continue your character into the next sequel story. However, you are NOT required to reach that end game at any particular pace. You could hurry to the climax, or take you time waltzing through the daisies (or crushing maggotmen skulls, your choice). The point here though, is this is a story driven game, and you will eventually get to the climax and have that big payoff that ties up all the loose ends. We felt it was important to offer this ending, as it gives players something to work towards besides just improving their character forever.

CoS has much in common with a set of epic fantasy novels, there is a big story, you are an important part of that story, and you will be there for the big climax. Of course, unlike the novel, your path through that story will be your own.  How we achieve this for each player is something you will have to experience. The whole concept of players joining an advancing epic story in a dynamic world, with different players starting at different times... was a mind boggling design conundrum. I still lose sleep. But... we worked out how we will do it, and by yimminy, we're sticking to our guns... er, crossbows.

 

 

you said,  though you may continue your character into the next sequal story. 

Will the game launch with several in place or just one?

Will you be able to repeat them?

Can you run out of the Big Story?

If this game delivers what it promises, and actually works as they say it's going to, then I'd DEFINITELY play it.  This would be the Holy Grail of MMOs, the best game ever.  Just reading their preview information is really exciting, and I'd love to see it come to pass.  If it works, it'll be genre-changing.  If not, hopefully at least the attempt will help open the door for someone else to make a game like this happen down the road.  But I'll be there to try it as soon as it's open for players, no doubt!

Originally posted by Feldron

Originally posted by Jatar

Originally posted by skipeth 

CoS lacks end game content and there is no point in which character progression stops.  Therefore it lacks the inherent idea of builds which are integral to Diablo II and WoW. 

 

Not exactly true... CoS DOES include a climactic ending of the game story, though you may continue your character into the next sequel story. However, you are NOT required to reach that end game at any particular pace. You could hurry to the climax, or take you time waltzing through the daisies (or crushing maggotmen skulls, your choice). The point here though, is this is a story driven game, and you will eventually get to the climax and have that big payoff that ties up all the loose ends. We felt it was important to offer this ending, as it gives players something to work towards besides just improving their character forever.

CoS has much in common with a set of epic fantasy novels, there is a big story, you are an important part of that story, and you will be there for the big climax. Of course, unlike the novel, your path through that story will be your own.  How we achieve this for each player is something you will have to experience. The whole concept of players joining an advancing epic story in a dynamic world, with different players starting at different times... was a mind boggling design conundrum. I still lose sleep. But... we worked out how we will do it, and by yimminy, we're sticking to our guns... er, crossbows.

 

 

 

you said,  though you may continue your character into the next sequal story. 

Will the game launch with several in place or just one?

Will you be able to repeat them?

Can you run out of the Big Story?

I can't remember exactly, but I'm pretty sure the story never ends.  You just continue following your story until you stop playing the game (remember - your original story will take a very long time to complete).  So, after you spend the time to complete your original story you will have a sequel, then after that you have another sequel, etc.

As for your first question, I'm not sure what you're asking.  If you're asking how many stories will the game be launched with, then the answer would be a lot, since every character has their own story line that no one else can follow.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, my CoS knowledge is a little rusty.

I believe you two are talking about separate things, let me try to clarify:

In Citadel of Sorcery there is the Epic storyline and there is also the player's personal story. Personal stories continue indefinitely, but the Epic story has an eventual climactic ending.

The game will only launch with the one Epic story, though we will be hard at work on the Sequel story immediately. I wouldn't worry about this too much if I were you though, since other MMOs you have likely played launch with no ongoing story at all. Remember typical MMOs are the same every day, time never moves on, nor does any story.

Also… our epic story is… well, epic. That means it is a long journey that you won’t run out of quickly. We anticipate an average player taking over a year to experience all of the epic story fun. By then we should have a sequel story ready.

So what is the difference between your personal story and the Epic story? Think of the Epic story as the major events going on in the world, where your personal story is how your character moves through that world situation. If I was comparing this to, say, the current status of the United States, the Epic story would be something like the election of President Obama, the economy problems, etc. You have a personal life or your own that is going on during this time. Your life is what happens to you, the friends and enemies you make, what you personally get involved with and effect. You have a life right now, and Obama is president. Other people have a different life, but Obama is still president for them as well. Of course, in CoS, your character’s personal story is going to eventually get involved with the movers and shakers of the world. That is not quite so likely in the case of your real life,  

When you have completed the Epic Story of CoS, you can still continue to play. Eventually (when you choose, or when it’s available) you’ll want to move on into the Sequel Story. Alternately, you can start a new character and although the Epic story would be the same, the new character's journey through the world will likely be quite different. When playing CoS you don’t go through the exact same quests as any other player.

The thing is, I just don’t know of a down side to this story system, it gives you FAR more story than any other MMO you have likely played. It also gives you far more variance to the game from what other players experience. When you complete the Epic Story, you can continue to play, start over, or play the Sequel story when it comes out.

Alternately, you can play other typical MMOs and experience NO ongoing story and repeat the same day over and over doing the exact same things that other players did, with no effect on the world what-so-ever. It’s your choice. I plan to have a lot of fun creating my own story while moving through the Epic storyline of CoS.

I've found this game when I was very bored with MMORPG's I'm playing, to the extent where I downloaded 7 MMO's in 3 days and spent a big amount of money during the last year trying to find something that's not a copy of everything else. It was a website that listed a number of games including those still in development. After I exhausted all the categories literally opening every single game website they had to offer in search for something different I decided to check what to expect from games soon to come and stumbled upon this!

I was amazed and surprised that the promises hold most of what I usually daydream about in an online role playing game. I have read (and re-read) each and every section of this game's website, I even went mental opening the dev's log every 10 minutes to see if there is another update acting like a kid waiting for her christmas present (and I'm 28).

The sample quest on the website got me involved and I felt like I was a part of that story even though I wasn't directly. When I saw the news dated back to 2005 I was a bit concerned that it could be an abandoned project trying to come back to life, but then when I followed the dev log from start to end I saw there was ongoing serious work and no considerable time cuts to endicate devs are giving up, they even report problems they are facing as the project continues to evolve while tweaking and designing their own set of game creation tools. Also noticed available job positions and team growing, and focusing on the right things at the right time instead of building the roof before the foundation is solid or getting lost in unimportant - at this point - details. Add to that not going to a publisher yet which allows fine-tuning of the project before it's rushed into a deadline.

In short I have seen a group of dedicated and highly organized people doing things right while having fun at the same time (the holiday event) instead of some bored devs just wanting to get by and get it done. That means they are worthy of my trust.

Now that said, a few things remain unclear to me and a few remarks :

If you can take part in someone else's quest, how is it going to affect your personal story? Specially if you have a NPC as an enemy but that person has them as a friend? Will the NPC refuse to help the group because you are in it? Or will you be like "disguised" and NPC doesn't notice you but remain your enemy? Or will they become friendlier after you have helped them through this group quest?

Same as above, if NPC's do die (which I think might present a whole lot of logical errors in group questing), will you be banned from participating in a quest that involves that NPC being alive?

If the world is as large as stated won't it be "burren" and lonely during regular hunts with players scattered all over the globe?

Is grouping up for regular hunts (not quests) possible?

If the monsters don't "pop" right back does that mean you would have to run far distances to find them after other players have killed every single monster in that area?

If you are not likely to find the same enemy in the same area how would you know where to hunt and find enemies that suit your current abilities?

It has been stated that the publisher will decide how this game gets published, which worries me a bit because if the publisher decides with selling it as a hard copy only (due to the large size) chances are it's not going to be available in my country and I'm not going to be able to play it unless it's also available through direct download online purchase. And trust me, for a game that's going to set a whole new standard for online gaming you have my paycheck no questions asked.

Originally posted by amusedmonkey

And trust me, for a game that's going to set a whole new standard for online gaming you have my paycheck no questions asked.

 

 

But you just asked a bunch of questions....

The game and concept looks innovative and a refreshing change

I'll be following it's progress closely :)

I'll

Originally posted by firesnake77

But you just asked a bunch of questions....

Do you see me pulling out my money yet? :p

Originally posted by amusedmonkey

I've found this game when I was very bored with MMORPG's I'm playing, to the extent where I downloaded 7 MMO's in 3 days and spent a big amount of money during the last year trying to find something that's not a copy of everything else. It was a website that listed a number of games including those still in development. After I exhausted all the categories literally opening every single game website they had to offer in search for something different I decided to check what to expect from games soon to come and stumbled upon this!

I was amazed and surprised that the promises hold most of what I usually daydream about in an online role playing game. I have read (and re-read) each and every section of this game's website, I even went mental opening the dev's log every 10 minutes to see if there is another update acting like a kid waiting for her christmas present (and I'm 28).

The sample quest on the website got me involved and I felt like I was a part of that story even though I wasn't directly. When I saw the news dated back to 2005 I was a bit concerned that it could be an abandoned project trying to come back to life, but then when I followed the dev log from start to end I saw there was ongoing serious work and no considerable time cuts to endicate devs are giving up, they even report problems they are facing as the project continues to evolve while tweaking and designing their own set of game creation tools. Also noticed available job positions and team growing, and focusing on the right things at the right time instead of building the roof before the foundation is solid or getting lost in unimportant - at this point - details. Add to that not going to a publisher yet which allows fine-tuning of the project before it's rushed into a deadline.

In short I have seen a group of dedicated and highly organized people doing things right while having fun at the same time (the holiday event) instead of some bored devs just wanting to get by and get it done. That means they are worthy of my trust.

Now that said, a few things remain unclear to me and a few remarks :

If you can take part in someone else's quest, how is it going to affect your personal story? Specially if you have a NPC as an enemy but that person has them as a friend? Will the NPC refuse to help the group because you are in it? Or will you be like "disguised" and NPC doesn't notice you but remain your enemy? Or will they become friendlier after you have helped them through this group quest?

Same as above, if NPC's do die (which I think might present a whole lot of logical errors in group questing), will you be banned from participating in a quest that involves that NPC being alive?

If the world is as large as stated won't it be "burren" and lonely during regular hunts with players scattered all over the globe?

Is grouping up for regular hunts (not quests) possible?

If the monsters don't "pop" right back does that mean you would have to run far distances to find them after other players have killed every single monster in that area?

If you are not likely to find the same enemy in the same area how would you know where to hunt and find enemies that suit your current abilities?

It has been stated that the publisher will decide how this game gets published, which worries me a bit because if the publisher decides with selling it as a hard copy only (due to the large size) chances are it's not going to be available in my country and I'm not going to be able to play it unless it's also available through direct download online purchase. And trust me, for a game that's going to set a whole new standard for online gaming you have my paycheck no questions asked.

 

 

Many of your questions are already answered... but I don't mind answering them again :) I think the first part you are missing is that Citadel of Sorcery uses a different server model than other MMOs you may be used to playing. I'd have to write a novel here to explain in detail WHY we choose to make the game this way, but we decided long ago that in order to offer in depth quests that continue personal stories of players that we would have to mix massive multiplayer areas with group play areas. In the simplest of terms, when you go out on a quest you (and your group if you have one) will enter one of the Reflected Worlds. This is the entire world... all of it, every single adventure and place, 'reflected'. (See our World mythos). You can move back and forth between the Reflected Worlds and the Citadel (and some other places) almost at will using our personal portals. However, while you and your group are in an RW you won't run into other players (other than by chat, or if you pop open a portal to let one into your group). Again, I don't want to go into the myriad of reasons why, just trust me that this works to your advantage in our quests and fun game play elements.
I thought I'd start with that before answering your questions, since a lot of them will be answered by that explanation.

1) If you can take part in someone else's quest, how is it going to affect your personal story? Especially if you have a NPC as an enemy but that person has them as a friend? Will the NPC refuse to help the group because you are in it? Or will you be like "disguised" and NPC doesn't notice you but remain your enemy? Or will they become friendlier after you have helped them through this group quest?

A: The game handles this by deciding what NPCs to use based on the current story and the players in the group. Our quests are not set in stone, or linear, therefore, when the quest is built for the player by the Quest system, it will take some of these things into account. However, in the case of a NPC being involved as a 'Friend' of the group leader, and you join the quest later (and that NPC is your enemy) well, you'll have to decide if you are willing to deal with your enemy or not. You could kill him, but he might be helping on this quest. Will you put aside your differences or act on them? It's up to you. The quest will continue regardless of your decision. CoS quests are like that, adaptive to the player choices.

2) Same as above, if NPC's do die (which I think might present a whole lot of logical errors in group questing), will you be banned from participating in a quest that involves that NPC being alive?
A: No quest requires any specific NPC to be alive therefore; we CAN and will let you kill your enemy NPCs if you can manage it. You are never banned from joining any quest in CoS.

3) If the world is as large as stated won't it be "burren" and lonely during regular hunts with players scattered all over the globe?

A) Yes, it would be if we let you go anywhere in the world at launch, which we won't. Sorry, but the size of the planet is one thing, the areas that you adventure in are another. Think of it as the middle ages and you are in Europe going on adventures. The New World (America) has not been discovered yet (it's still over there though). Eventually, you WILL get access to other territories and continents, but in the proper progression. The shear amount of playable land we are starting with is, well, massive. We didn't build it that way to use it all right away; we built it this way because we constructed a planet, rather than drawing a map. Once we have the planet, we will go exploring and see where we want to develop first. With the amount of room we start with, we don't think we'll ever run out of new areas to develop and open up to players.

4) Is grouping up for regular hunts (not quests) possible?

A: You can group for all game play in CoS. Eight is the maximum though.

5) If the monsters don't "pop" right back does that mean you would have to run far distances to find them after other players have killed every single monster in that area?

A: Other players can't kill your monsters, you are in your personal or groups current RW. It's all for you. However, also remember that CoS is not a grind game. We don't put monsters out on a grid for you to kill, wait for them to pop, and kill again. First off, it's boring, and artificial. In CoS even monsters have their own agendas. You will cross paths at times for random encounters, sure, but mostly you will be hunting them, or they will be hunting you. There is a war on, and Morphael's creatures are taking towns and villages, creating new footholds in Citadel territory, doing raids and kill parties. You are part of the forces trying to hold them back. You'll have to discover what their plans are today, and deal with them. Are there times that you might go a long distance and not run into enemies? Sure, it's possible, since things are on the move and we can't completely predict what will be where when. But, you'll never have a problem finding a fight if you want one. Use your tracking skills and start hunting your prey... they probably crossed your path and headed for a nearby village to attack... or maybe they are kidnapping people in the area to create new monsters in a cave nearby. Just talk to the locals, find out what's been happening recently, and go get into an adventure.

6) If you are not likely to find the same enemy in the same area how would you know where to hunt and find enemies that suit your current abilities?

A: The world is divided into territories that match up to your current abilities. As you progress up the Citadel Tiers you will open up new territories to adventure within more suited to your current skill level. However, our game is adaptive and even if you go back to lower Tiers the adventures there will still be challenging. (and there are NEVER gray monsters in CoS).

7) It has been stated that the publisher will decide how this game gets published, which worries me a bit because if the publisher decides with selling it as a hard copy only (due to the large size) chances are it's not going to be available in my country and I'm not going to be able to play it unless it's also available through direct download online purchase. And trust me, for a game that's going to set a whole new standard for online gaming you have my paycheck no questions asked.

A: Don't worry so much, the client will be downloadable, we’re pretty sure about that. :)

Thank you alot, this has cleared up a lot of haze i had about CoS.

I see you have excellent communication with players (potential players at this point), this can't be praised enough!

Please don't give up gamers' dream can and will come true

This is the best customer communication I've ever seen from a game developer.  You're really dedicated to answering the community's questions.  Kudos!

I hope that once the game has a publisher, and its own forums, and is much closer to actual commercial release, that a similar degree of communication continues to exist.  If so, I think that that fact will prove to be very influential in generating positive feelings and interest in the game from general gamers.

The design philosophy of this game is amazing, just the sort of thing I've been wishing we'd have for years now.  I really hope you guys pull it off.  I think there are a lot of gamers out there who would be thrilled to play a game like you describe, and pay premium price for it!

Yes love the concept the ability to play the Game with friends, trade and chat but not have to put up with the muppets.

Originally posted by firesnake77

This is the best customer communication I've ever seen from a game developer.  You're really dedicated to answering the community's questions.  Kudos!

I hope that once the game has a publisher, and its own forums, and is much closer to actual commercial release, that a similar degree of communication continues to exist.  If so, I think that that fact will prove to be very influential in generating positive feelings and interest in the game from general gamers.

The design philosophy of this game is amazing, just the sort of thing I've been wishing we'd have for years now.  I really hope you guys pull it off.  I think there are a lot of gamers out there who would be thrilled to play a game like you describe, and pay premium price for it!

Lets hope also the concentrate on what is important the Game...

Wow i'ts been over an year already since I found this game,of course I would play it,haven't been playing any mmo for ages(if trying for 10 minutes is playing I can take that back).

Still waiting for the beta application to appear in the website,and official forums for that matter,even tough there was some explanation on an old post why you don't have official forums(something do to with management if I remember correctly) I don't like mmorpg forums that much due to the constant game flaming and whatso.

Good luck with the game,I realy hope that you can pull this off.(wonder if this will finally increase my rank points to 5 so I can finally hype....)

the amount of instanced content will either make of break this game

Originally posted by Feldron

the amount of instanced content will either make of break this game

It's all instanced , you you're group = instance of the whole world.

i needa get some actualizations lol

i cannot find the download link for CoS

pls tell me either if its not out yet or link... ty in advance ^^