Jumpgate Evolution

Yeah, they say it won't be an EVE clone, but is that true?  Here's some quotes from the April/May issue of GFW from Herman Perterscheck, lead producer for the game. (my comments all in yellow)

"Players chose one of three factions (EVE has 4), and then take part in their own space adventure.  This includes combat, trading, mining, crafting and so on."   - Hmm... just like EVE.  He goes on to say " Many typical MMO experiences are in the game, including quests, advancement, loot and things like that."  - Just like EVE.

Now here's the big difference of course, " In Jumpgate you fly your ship, and combat is skill-based as opposed to [EVE] more strategy-centric type of control scheme."  I'd venture to say that its all a matter of how we define the word "skill".  Trust me, it takes real skill to fight your ship in EVE, but not point, click, & twitch reflexes.  But thats a discussion for another thread. 

"We've also tried to give the game a gentler learning curve [than EVE]; (translation, we've dumbed the game down to a more understandable level, sort of like WOW I suppose) while we will have a deep and player-driven economy (just like EVE), we want to make sure people can jump right in without spending a lot of time learning how to play."  I'll concede this approach is different, but is it better? We'll see.

The author of the article (Ryan Scott)  goes on to say, "And not to keep comparing the two, but as with EVE, don't expect to explore any far-flung planets because ship-to-ship combat's the key focus." (does this sound familiar to anyone?) Also, "Your ship and its capabilities define your role (rather than say, a strict character class, which Evolution eschews;" (just like EVE!).

Now here is a significant difference, "As you complete missions and accrue experience, your character earns licences that yield access to better equipment, resources and economic benefits..... "Leveling up does not mean you automatically get tougher or get some special set of skills that you train"  I'll grant, this is in stark contrast to EVE's real-time training of skills which some folks despise.  Matter of preference I suppose, but it is a real difference, perhaps the 2nd one I've seen thus far.

Here's something that probably won't please the hardcore PVP fans from the original game.  Peterscheck states, "My hope is that we can create a game that has opportunities for both [PVE & PVP], who notes that most MMO's fail to properly balance the two play styles.  "There's a tendency for developers to pick one side and half-support the other, which really makes people understandably angry.  I think the better [solution] is to support both."  (IMO, you cannot create a game that effectively pleases both sides, but thats again a topic for another thread).  He continues,  "If you are doing lots of cool PVP stuff, the rewareds should equal the PVE rewards, but tailored to the PVP experience. (well, this sort of sounds like AOC/WOW to me, not EVE).  If you add some badass PVE content, make sure you give the PVP'ers some good stuff as well.  (laudible goal, we'll see if they can deliver.)

He continues with, "We're still working on the specifics (translation, we have no clue yet) but there will be some kind of PVP in space (let's hope) - either through PVP servers (sounds like old Jumpgate), regulated and unregulated space (a la EVE), PVP flagging (sounds like WOW) or a mix of the above. (smart thinking here).  WE are also looking at instanced PVP experiences.  (ugh, not a fan of this, but some love it.)

Finally, we get the prize line to sum up the article.  "As for Peterscheck's ideal combat scenario, think Star Wars: "When I imagine cool space battles, my mind goes to the typical scene of two giant capital ships coming closer and closer together, volleying shots at each other while tons of smaller ships fight and aid their side.   Wouldn't that be fun".   

LOL, yes, it sure is fun , we do that in EVE all the time.  Just in the past two weeks I've been in fleet engagements where several Titans from both sides squared off along with about 40 Dreadnaughts and 150 smaller support ships.   Peterscheck should come give it a try.

Now in all fairness, JE is based on the original Jumpgate, which released prior to EVE, so I guess it would be fair to say EVE is more of a clone of Jumpgate than the other way around.

But in the end, I see fewer differences between the two games, and I don't think the joystick style combat really makes it that much difference. (unless of course, you love FPS style fighting, the of course this is going to matter to you)

I'm just not seeing JE as being hugely different from EVE, just another refinement of an existing model with a few different design choices.

Forgive any spelling errors, I couldn't locate this online, so I re-typed all the quotes.  And I'm not really trying to down JE, I intend to play it to see if it does bring anything new to the genre that EVE hasn't already provided. 

Ehm.. Jumpgate Evolution is a mmorpg.. so ofcourse it will have the basic elements that most mmorpgs have.

What you highlightet as being similar to Eve can also be found in almoust all mmo's.  I mean have you played a mmo without combat, trading, mining, crafting? all have atlest one of these elements.

Yeah, ofcourse it takes some kind of skill to play EvE (Patience of Shaolin Munks)  but thats not the same Skill when you play Jumpgate Evolution.. Its FPS. Now lets not derail this to My p is bigger then your p.

So whats wrong in making it start out like WoW? thats 100 better then the EvE tutorial. Still it doesnt have to play like WoW just cause it starts Easy.  Ofcourse its better.. Subscribers WoW > Subs EvE. But I dont like neither of them.

PVP servers is not like old Jumpgate.. Jumpgate Classic has PVP tags, regulated and unregulated space and instanced battleground aka Simulator. 

Eve Fleet battle < JG fleet battle.

Frankly if they make this game exactly like EVE, but with joystick based twitch combat, I'll be on it like a fat kid on a Twinkie.

Out of ship content would be a bonus, but I think EVE is actually going to get that before JE does.

Well, I have played Jumpgate Classic and EVE.  I wouldn't say its like comparing apples and oranges, more like red and green apples.  Almost the same on the outside, big difference when you take a bite.

Skill in Eve combat.  Yes, it takes skill if your evenly matched with your opponent.  Ok, lets be honest here, how often does that happen.  Most people won't engage someone unless they know they have a 90+% chance of winning.

Now in Jumpgate,  you might be attacked by someone with a bigger ship, better guns etc.  but you still have a shot.  If the other guy can't fly worth a damn, you can still tear him up.

Not knocking Eve, played almost 2.5 years with about the last 8 months in 0.0.

I would recommend trying out the trial of Jumpgate Classic for a few days to get a rough feel of what your going to be looking at in JE.  Fly around, kill a few Flux.  Load your hold full of Uranium and see how it drastically changes your handling.

Originally posted by NotNiceDino

Frankly if they make this game exactly like EVE, but with joystick based twitch combat, I'll be on it like a fat kid on a Twinkie.

Out of ship content would be a bonus, but I think EVE is actually going to get that before JE does.

That's why I watch the development of Jumpgate Evolution too. EVE is very nice in many ways, but now and then I'd like a bit more immediate control of the ship.

If NetDevil can pull it off to include flight/combat in Wing Commander style, I might be tempted to switch games.

In terms of out of ship content, CCP(Eve) have hinted at a possible release in late 2008. But it will be for eyecandy and RP opportunities rather than lots of new gameplay features.

Originally posted by Kyleran

OK...

Yeah, they say it won't be an EVE clone, but is that true?  Here's some quotes from the April/May issue of GFW from Herman Perterscheck, lead producer for the game. (my comments all in yellow)

"Players chose one of three factions (EVE has 4) so does warcraft 3, dont be pedantic. every game where there is fighting has "factions" ,even freaking gta4, and then take part in their own space adventure.  This includes combat, trading, mining, crafting and so on."   - Hmm... just like EVE.  He goes on to say  and UO and WOW...." Many typical MMO experiences are in the game, including quests, advancement, loot and things like that."  - Just like EVE. And UO and wow and every other mmorpg ever.

Now here's the big difference of course, " In Jumpgate you fly your ship, and combat is skill-based as opposed to [EVE] more strategy-centric type of control scheme."  I'd venture to say that its all a matter of how we define the word "skill".  Trust me, it takes real skill to fight your ship in EVE, but not point, click, & twitch reflexes.  But thats a discussion for another thread.  Activate highslots then medslots , orbit at optimal range. No, not really no. Just... no. Wow requires more skill to pvp due to actually using reactive and proactive abilities, not just auto-attack... like eve... IF and i say IF you put in ship outfitting then... No forget it, thats just being BLIND and WRONG.

"We've also tried to give the game a gentler learning curve [than EVE]; (translation, we've dumbed the game down to a more understandable level, sort of like WOW I suppose) Nope, he said what he said, eve is downright impossible to understand within the first 2 weeks of playing and is unintuitive as hell (transversal velocities for gun tracking...honestly does anyone even bother to use that info?)while we will have a deep and player-driven economy (just like EVE) AND UO, we want to make sure people can jump right in without spending a lot of time learning how to play."  I'll concede this approach is different, but is it better? We'll see.

The author of the article (Ryan Scott)  goes on to say, "And not to keep comparing the two, but as with EVE, don't expect to explore any far-flung planets because ship-to-ship combat's the key focus." (does this sound familiar to anyone?) yeah, every mmo except tale in the desert as long as you can replace ship to ship with character to character Also, "Your ship and its capabilities define your role (rather than say, a strict character class, which Evolution eschews;" (just like EVE!).

Now here is a significant difference, "As you complete missions and accrue experience, your character earns licences that yield access to better equipment, resources and economic benefits..... "Leveling up does not mean you automatically get tougher or get some special set of skills that you train"  I'll grant, this is in stark contrast to EVE's real-time training of skills which some folks despise.  Matter of preference I suppose, but it is a real difference, perhaps the 2nd one I've seen thus far.

Here's something that probably won't please the hardcore PVP fans from the original game.  Peterscheck states, "My hope is that we can create a game that has opportunities for both [PVE & PVP], who notes that most MMO's fail to properly balance the two play styles.  "There's a tendency for developers to pick one side and half-support the other, which really makes people understandably angry.  I think the better [solution] is to support both."  (IMO, you cannot create a game that effectively pleases both sides, but thats again a topic for another thread).  We'll see, Eve just outright failed at PVE it isnt even funny, on a sidenote, DAOC did it pretty well imho.He continues,  "If you are doing lots of cool PVP stuff, the rewareds should equal the PVE rewards, but tailored to the PVP experience. (well, this sort of sounds like AOC/WOW to me, not EVE). Where in Eve there are no rewards at all in a more or less pvp-orientated game. If you add some badass PVE content, make sure you give the PVP'ers some good stuff as well.  (laudible goal, we'll see if they can deliver.)

He continues with, "We're still working on the specifics (translation, we have no clue yet) but there will be some kind of PVP in space (let's hope) - either through PVP servers (sounds like old Jumpgate), regulated and unregulated space (a la EVE), PVP flagging (sounds like WOW) or a mix of the above. (smart thinking here).  WE are also looking at instanced PVP experiences.  (ugh, not a fan of this, but some love it.)

Finally, we get the prize line to sum up the article.  "As for Peterscheck's ideal combat scenario, think Star Wars: "When I imagine cool space battles, my mind goes to the typical scene of two giant capital ships coming closer and closer together, volleying shots at each other while tons of smaller ships fight and aid their side.   Wouldn't that be fun".   

LOL, yes, it sure is fun , we do that in EVE all the time.  Just in the past two weeks I've been in fleet engagements where several Titans from both sides squared off along with about 40 Dreadnaughts and 150 smaller support ships.   Peterscheck should come give it a try. It's possible he has already, since 200 ship battles in Eve dont happen, 60 ship battles with the old engine tended to melt even the most expensive PCs a couple of years back and crashed servers. 30 ship battles = playing anything with a dial-up modem.

Now in all fairness, JE is based on the original Jumpgate, which released prior to EVE, so I guess it would be fair to say EVE is more of a clone of Jumpgate than the other way around.

But in the end, I see fewer differences between the two games, and I don't think the joystick style combat really makes it that much difference. (unless of course, you love FPS style fighting, the of course this is going to matter to you)No need to be condescending, considering wing commander /xwing and tie fighter/ starlancer/freelancer /freespace and IWAR pretty much MADE the sci fi video game genre, it makes sooooo much more sense that it should be played with a joystick rather that with a mouse.

I'm just not seeing JE as being hugely different from EVE, just another refinement of an existing model with a few different design choices.

Forgive any spelling errors, I couldn't locate this online, so I re-typed all the quotes.  And I'm not really trying to down JE, I intend to play it to see if it does bring anything new to the genre that EVE hasn't already provided.  Half Life didn't bring anything to the FPS genre either.

They are completely different in essence.  I played Jumpgate for a year or so then moved over to EVE.  I will definitely play JE as well as EVE because they are different.  First in JE you control the ship 100% and skill is everything...almost.  In PvE and PvP its how well you fly your ship and fire at the right time, even has zero-G so you need to work out how to fire thrusters to slide etc.  In EVE I can play for hours because its more of a thinking game.  In JE I could only play 2-3 hours maximum because its too intense!  Even mining and landing a barge is scary.  Imagine how nerve racking it is when you mine for 1 hour then your ship is even harder to move because of the weight.  If you hit an asteroid...boom!..if you hit a jumpgate...boom!..when you try to land and you miss the dock...boom!!  There are many times I smashed my keyboard in anger but in a way thats why JE will work just like Jumpgate.  You really really feel like you are playing the game because its very unforgiving.  Also develops new culture in an MMO.  Its interesting when you see players announcing...'Barge coming through!'  and if you cut off other players or nudge their ship into the side I can tell you its not pretty in local chat :)

So yes both are in space and have spaceships but they are very very different.  Not for the faint hearted I can tell you...

Consider the following thought experiment:

Give 2 or more developers the same list of what should be included in their next MMO and let them develop their game according to the specificat