General Discussion

Some of you are going to call me crazy but I think we've all gone nuts paying $15 a month for a game.

If games like Guild Wars and other f2p (or one time fee) games can survive without monthly subs they all can survive without monthly sub.

There was a time when mmorpgs were a unique service and I could kinda understand a monlthy fee. Now, the value and quality of the pay to play games simply isnt there.

I now think monthly fees are a scam.  Devs spend a few years developing a game, granted. But once the game is released and you pay your $60 for the game where is the value in the monthly fee?  New content is few and far between, the games are released in crappy states yet we're expected to pay? (well im not because i dont) .

So in the last 10 years we've seen stagnation in the quality of games and no change to the monthly sub concept.  Couple that with the fact there is very little in new content added to games and I almost think its silly to pay for a game each month.  We simply do this because its an online game and thats how we've been programmed. 

These developers have it made- sell a boxed game, recoup dev costs and then rake in $$ each month for content that never gets updated except when you release an expansion but then charge for that too.  Sit back and take a good look at the game you play and ask yourself where the value is in spending money each month for it.

I think Turbine does a great deal with the money they recieve from subs. At least in LOTRO we get new content updates every 10 weeks and they are planning for yearly expansions. I think they do the best job with adding content to the game and dont' mind paying for it. Though I recently switched to the 9.99/mo plan.

Guild wars really isn't a MMO.  It doesn't require constant development.  

Originally posted by Rollotamasi

Guild wars really isn't a MMO.  It doesn't require constant development.  

Guild wars is an mmorpg.. and they do updates  as well as holiday events.. just their game doesn't require alot of maintenence because it doesn't have alot of bugs to fix. It is a quality game with excellent customer service.The developers have a good mindset and I can't wait to see what they accomplish with guild wars2. See if more developers actually produced quality programs in the first place they would not need  to constantly have to work on it. I applaud them for what they accomplished with their first series, and if they put out this kind of quality with their first game .. I  certainly hope that they maintain that quality in the games to come.

Paying full price for expansions is not a bad model, but it doesn't make companies a whole lot of money and you are sadly mistaken if you think this is the route they will take.  If they go with a system, it will most likely be the one that makes them the most amount of money and so far that seems to be the mis-named free to play games, where you have to buy items, powers or specific content.  They literally nickel and dime you to death and before you realize it, you're spending $100's a month instead of $15.

What we don't know so far is if this will really have an appeal on non-gamers or the current crop of casual gamers.  We do know it's quite popular with hardcores and the rich.  We also know that this method does not foster any sense of fair play, but then again, we already aren't seeing that in the current games that are  so fixated on their hardcore customers by giving them the best content and the best rewards, but still charging everyone the same subscription rate despite the essential denial of content.

I completely dissagree with the OP, the reason being is we are seeing CRAP being created for F2P MMO's.  Like one of the above posters said "Guild wars isn't really an MMO".  The reason people think every game should be F2P is because the quality of MMORPG's has gone down hill in a dramatic way.  When EQ was released it was polished quite a bit for the time, I am not saying it didn't have it's problems but being the only REAL choice out there untill Asheron's Call Came out helped its popularity.  You pay so that there is balancing in the game, new content...etc.  EQ lost this focus and started releasing expansion packs for sale, and this is where I think they shot themselves in the foot.  It is fine to release an expansion pack but not one a year come on?  Your updates should do that, that is why you pay 15$/month.  The only game with consistant monthly updates, content add ins and fixes to systems that were not working is Asherons Call.  Pretty much 10 years have passed since release and 1 update EVERY month, otherwise known as PATCH DAY.

Now don't get me wrong LOTRO and DDO are good as well, not really my cup of tea though.  Not as free flowing as AC was, too scripted and path orientated.  I always like the idea that I could go anywhere and do anything at any level, as long as the monsters would alow it.  Not to mention the random loot drops...ahhh the good old days.  Anyways...

I think P2P is still a good thing IF the game warrents it.  Otherwise the games should all be F2P with cash shops.  Either way I only thing P2P is stagnent because of the crap that is out there now.

Yeah!  And cable should be free!  Also I mean I pay for this phone and then I have to pay a monthly fee to use it?  WTF!!!  I spent 400 bucks on this thing!  And this paying monthly for TIVO, wtf is this?  I mean all it does is record stuff on to a hard drive for god's sake!  Insurance?  Monthly fee for that?  WTF do I get from that?  NOTHING!

Everything in life has a monthly fee.  When you get older you'll get more used to it.  It never feels any better, but if you're smart and plan well, you'll have the money to pay for it all and still have some left over for stuff like $5/gal gas.  lawl

Originally posted by Vrazule

Paying full price for expansions is not a bad model, but it doesn't make companies a whole lot of money and you are sadly mistaken if you think this is the route they will take.  If they go with a system, it will most likely be the one that makes them the most amount of money and so far that seems to be the mis-named free to play games, where you have to buy items, powers or specific content.  They literally nickel and dime you to death and before you realize it, you're spending $100's a month instead of $15.

What we don't know so far is if this will really have an appeal on non-gamers or the current crop of casual gamers.  We do know it's quite popular with hardcores and the rich.  We also know that this method does not foster any sense of fair play, but then again, we already aren't seeing that in the current games that are  so fixated on their hardcore customers by giving them the best content and the best rewards, but still charging everyone the same subscription rate despite the essential denial of content.

I am wealthy, and a hardcore gamer.. I do not mind monthly subs if it is a quality game but I have yet to see one that has that combination. I refuse to play games with an item shop, but then again what you fail to realize is that the wealthy are also intelligent and the scam of the item shop games is as blatent as the poor quality of the games that contain them.  You forget most of the wealthy did not obtain that wealth by being ignorant or gullable.

If you compare any F2P with Pirates of the Burning Sea, I agreed with you.

Originally posted by deviliscious

Originally posted by Rollotamasi

Guild wars really isn't a MMO.  It doesn't require constant development.  

Guild wars is an mmorpg.. and they do updates  as well as holiday events.. just their game doesn't require alot of maintenence because it doesn't have alot of bugs to fix. It is a quality game with excellent customer service.The developers have a good mindset and I can't wait to see what they accomplish with guild wars2. See if more developers actually produced quality programs in the first place they would not need  to constantly have to work on it. I applaud them for what they accomplished with their first series, and if they put out this kind of quality with their first game .. I  certainly hope that they maintain that quality in the games to come.

Both of you are missing the reason guildwars doesn’t need subs.  All the action is instanced.  They require much less hardware and networking costs.  It’s basically Diablo with a graphical lobbies.  

Unless one of the expansions added open world PvE.