General Discussion

My first experience with PVP was in SWG, and back then I enjoyed it tremendously. Tbh, I am not the best PVPer, but going into it was a kind of alternative to my always the same PVE.

Lately I have had some PVP in AoC. Now as the Devs of AoC so often say, the combat in AoC is more like Couterstrike. Now I have talked with a few of my friends, and now it seems to me as if there are two totally different concepts of PVP. The current trend, to my misfortune is a very fast paced PVP, or so you might say, as AoC and also WOW herald. The point in those "fast paced" PVPs is, you charge in, and when you start the combat itself, it is a matter of very few seconds until the combat situation is solved, meaning one or more are dead. In reality this means you die very fast, run back and whenever you see one of your men in combat there is little to help him, because usually until you reach him he is either victorious or dead. In those type of accelerated PVP usually 2-3 hits mean the death of the opponent.

In SWG it used to be decelerated PVP, and I much miss that type of PVP nowadays. It took considerbly longer to bring down an opponent, and as a result, there way MUCH more room for maneuvering and tactics.

Age of Conan has practically brought Counterstrike to MMOs, and it essentially IS countersrike combat in a fantasy world. It perfectly fits the Counterstrike-generation of fast death, run and death again. It is all entirely pushing the adrenaline and the fast - and I might say relatively mindless - PVP combat. Gone seem the days when PVP was slow paced and stratetic, when you could not mow down the enemy with 2-3 shots, when PVP was less like Counterstrike and more like Chess. I mean, each to his, but it seems gaming is generally accelerating.

If I take strategy games like "Act of War", I vividly recall it was all happend within seconds. There was virtually no breath to look at the landscape or think of a strategy, or deploy your troops. There was a crisis here and there and all without breaks. I mean, are there really only HYPER HYPER kids playing games these days? Where have the days gone when games like Civilization, Fantasy General, Heroes of Might and Magic or Jagged Alliance were fashion? Once I used to defend Games against all kind of accusation of brutalizing people. But seeing HOW tremendously games generally and PVP in particular changed from a tactical challange to one of ultra fast rush rush rush, I wonder what kind of change this causes in the mind of people?

Every new generation of games seems faster and more "mindless" than the ones we used to know. It also seems that the pressure it causes upon people, the stress it sets free, also constantly rises up to a point I seriiously feel is unhealthy. I mean, can it really be good to spend hours and hours in an uber rushed adrenaline pushing like this?? Makes me feel old, yes, but also sad of a change towards sheer "power power power" where nuance of gameplay of careful building and preparing are seemingly lost. And that also reflects in the way PVP has changed, it seems.

Originally posted by Elikal

My first experience with PVP was in SWG, and back then I enjoyed it tremendously. Tbh, I am not the best PVPer, but going into it was a kind of alternative to my always the same PVE.

Lately I have had some PVP in AoC. Now as the Devs of AoC so often say, the combat in AoC is more like Couterstrike. Now I have talked with a few of my friends, and now it seems to me as if there are two totally different concepts of PVP. The current trend, to my misfortune is a very fast paced PVP, or so you might say, as AoC and also WOW herald. The point in those "fast paced" PVPs is, you charge in, and when you start the combat itself, it is a matter of very few seconds until the combat situation is solved, meaning one or more are dead. In reality this means you die very fast, run back and whenever you see one of your men in combat there is little to help him, because usually until you reach him he is either victorious or dead. In those type of accelerated PVP usually 2-3 hits mean the death of the opponent.

In SWG it used to be decelerated PVP, and I much miss that type of PVP nowadays. It took considerbly longer to bring down an opponent, and as a result, there way MUCH more room for maneuvering and tactics.

Age of Conan has practically brought Counterstrike to MMOs, and it essentially IS countersrike combat in a fantasy world. It perfectly fits the Counterstrike-generation of fast death, run and death again. It is all entirely pushing the adrenaline and the fast - and I might say relatively mindless - PVP combat. Gone seem the days when PVP was slow paced and stratetic, when you could not mow down the enemy with 2-3 shots, when PVP was less like Counterstrike and more like Chess. I mean, each to his, but it seems gaming is generally accelerating.

If I take strategy games like "Act of War", I vividly recall it was all happend within seconds. There was virtually no breath to look at the landscape or think of a strategy, or deploy your troops. There was a crisis here and there and all without breaks. I mean, are there really only HYPER HYPER kids playing games these days? Where have the days gone when games like Civilization, Fantasy General, Heroes of Might and Magic or Jagged Alliance were fashion? Once I used to defend Games against all kind of accusation of brutalizing people. But seeing HOW tremendously games generally and PVP in particular changed from a tactical challange to one of ultra fast rush rush rush, I wonder what kind of change this causes in the mind of people?

Every new generation of games seems faster and more "mindless" than the ones we used to know. It also seems that the pressure it causes upon people, the stress it sets free, also constantly rises up to a point I seriiously feel is unhealthy. I mean, can it really be good to spend hours and hours in an uber rushed adrenaline pushing like this?? Makes me feel old, yes, but also sad of a change towards sheer "power power power" where nuance of gameplay of careful building and preparing are seemingly lost. And that also reflects in the way PVP has changed, it seems.

I can see where you're coming from, look how much Ritalin has sold since it's inception. All droll comments aside, it does seem this way, I can tell and I was born in '89. I think it's just a part of the evolution of society, now we're not limited so much by hardware and like our food, news and electronics much faster. Everyone's going somewhere and doing something, it's a rare occurrence for me to see a 8 year old have enough patience to watch an entire cartoon show much less play a strategic online game or console RPG. (remember when you beat Final Fantasy 7 at that age and read the dialog with 100% retension? Well ... maybe Ultima IV for you ) My neighbor's kid downloaded a game boy advance game in a different language than he could understand because he didn't want to take a little bit longer to find the English version.


The slower-paced strategic online gamer just isn't catered to 100% anymore, they've taken a back seat to the over-population of the "NOWNOWNOW" generation. That's not to say they don't get anything, Civilization IV is good, Starcraft 2 is on the way. Maybe you should play Dofus? It's a free tactical MMO, you'll get plenty of hours out of that. The makers of Dofus also started a project of the same type called Wakfu, check that stuff out. Don't be so disappointed, AoC is just for a different type of gamer. There's still strategy there, it's just split-second.  I hope I helped a bit.

Originally posted by Supafroxx

Originally posted by Elikal

My first experience with PVP was in SWG, and back then I enjoyed it tremendously. Tbh, I am not the best PVPer, but going into it was a kind of alternative to my always the same PVE.

Lately I have had some PVP in AoC. Now as the Devs of AoC so often say, the combat in AoC is more like Couterstrike. Now I have talked with a few of my friends, and now it seems to me as if there are two totally different concepts of PVP. The current trend, to my misfortune is a very fast paced PVP, or so you might say, as AoC and also WOW herald. The point in those "fast paced" PVPs is, you charge in, and when you start the combat itself, it is a matter of very few seconds until the combat situation is solved, meaning one or more are dead. In reality this means you die very fast, run back and whenever you see one of your men in combat there is little to help him, because usually until you reach him he is either victorious or dead. In those type of accelerated PVP usually 2-3 hits mean the death of the opponent.

In SWG it used to be decelerated PVP, and I much miss that type of PVP nowadays. It took considerbly longer to bring down an opponent, and as a result, there way MUCH more room for maneuvering and tactics.

Age of Conan has practically brought Counterstrike to MMOs, and it essentially IS countersrike combat in a fantasy world. It perfectly fits the Counterstrike-generation of fast death, run and death again. It is all entirely pushing the adrenaline and the fast - and I might say relatively mindless - PVP combat. Gone seem the days when PVP was slow paced and stratetic, when you could not mow down the enemy with 2-3 shots, when PVP was less like Counterstrike and more like Chess. I mean, each to his, but it seems gaming is generally accelerating.

If I take strategy games like "Act of War", I vividly recall it was all happend within seconds. There was virtually no breath to look at the landscape or think of a strategy, or deploy your troops. There was a crisis here and there and all without breaks. I mean, are there really only HYPER HYPER kids playing games these days? Where have the days gone when games like Civilization, Fantasy General, Heroes of Might and Magic or Jagged Alliance were fashion? Once I used to defend Games against all kind of accusation of brutalizing people. But seeing HOW tremendously games generally and PVP in particular changed from a tactical challange to one of ultra fast rush rush rush, I wonder what kind of change this causes in the mind of people?

Every new generation of games seems faster and more "mindless" than the ones we used to know. It also seems that the pressure it causes upon people, the stress it sets free, also constantly rises up to a point I seriiously feel is unhealthy. I mean, can it really be good to spend hours and hours in an uber rushed adrenaline pushing like this?? Makes me feel old, yes, but also sad of a change towards sheer "power power power" where nuance of gameplay of careful building and preparing are seemingly lost. And that also reflects in the way PVP has changed, it seems.

I can see where you're coming from, look how much Ritalin has sold since it's inception. All droll comments aside, it does seem this way, I can tell and I was born in '89. I think it's just a part of the evolution of society, now we're not limited so much by hardware and like our food, news and electronics much faster. Everyone's going somewhere and doing something, it's a rare occurrence for me to see a 8 year old have enough patience to watch an entire cartoon show much less play a strategic online game or console RPG. (remember when you beat Final Fantasy 7 at that age and read the dialog with 100% retension? Well ... maybe Ultima IV for you ) My neighbor's kid downloaded a game boy advance game in a different language than he could understand because he didn't want to take a little bit longer to find the English version.


The slower-paced strategic online gamer just isn't catered to 100% anymore, they've taken a back seat to the over-population of the "NOWNOWNOW" generation. That's not to say they don't get anything, Civilization IV is good, Starcraft 2 is on the way. Maybe you should play Dofus? It's a free tactical MMO, you'll get plenty of hours out of that. The makers of Dofus also started a project of the same type called Wakfu, check that stuff out. Don't be so disappointed, AoC is just for a different type of gamer. There's still strategy there, it's just split-second.  I hope I helped a bit.

Thats where it gets REALLY to spook me. If a 1989 born person tell me HE observes kids having no patience even to watch a cartoon! No offense, for me, being born 1971 you still are a kid! Well, sorta. ;)

Btw, I played Ultima IV when it was new, and boy I had such a blast! We still had to draw our own maps of chequered paper and make long sheets with quests and hints ourselves. Today kids just click the intro cutscene away. I always think, hey those guys took months to make it, and spent lotsa dollars and it looks awesome! But apparently the attention span and patience is going down all the way. I really dont want to sound so negative, but what I see... it seriously frightens me. Where will that end? What kind of society will those kind of kids make?? I wonder.

I often hear thats how society evolves, and we have no choices. I we hear that form politicans often. There is no choice, its how it goes. I think there is ALWAYS choice, but people say there is no choice to comfort themselves in the choice they already made.

Originally posted by Elikal

 

Originally posted by Supafroxx

Originally posted by Elikal

My first experience with PVP was in SWG, and back then I enjoyed it tremendously. Tbh, I am not the best PVPer, but going into it was a kind of alternative to my always the same PVE.

Lately I have had some PVP in AoC. Now as the Devs of AoC so often say, the combat in AoC is more like Couterstrike. Now I have talked with a few of my friends, and now it seems to me as if there are two totally different concepts of PVP. The current trend, to my misfortune is a very fast paced PVP, or so you might say, as AoC and also WOW herald. The point in those "fast paced" PVPs is, you charge in, and when you start the combat itself, it is a matter of very few seconds until the combat situation is solved, meaning one or more are dead. In reality this means you die very fast, run back and whenever you see one of your men in combat there is little to help him, because usually until you reach him he is either victorious or dead. In those type of accelerated PVP usually 2-3 hits mean the death of the opponent.

In SWG it used to be decelerated PVP, and I much miss that type of PVP nowadays. It took considerbly longer to bring down an opponent, and as a result, there way MUCH more room for maneuvering and tactics.

Age of Conan has practically brought Counterstrike to MMOs, and it essentially IS countersrike combat in a fantasy world. It perfectly fits the Counterstrike-generation of fast death, run and death again. It is all entirely pushing the adrenaline and the fast - and I might say relatively mindless - PVP combat. Gone seem the days when PVP was slow paced and stratetic, when you could not mow down the enemy with 2-3 shots, when PVP was less like Counterstrike and more like Chess. I mean, each to his, but it seems gaming is generally accelerating.

If I take strategy games like "Act of War", I vividly recall it was all happend within seconds. There was virtually no breath to look at the landscape or think of a strategy, or deploy your troops. There was a crisis here and there and all without breaks. I mean, are there really only HYPER HYPER kids playing games these days? Where have the days gone when games like Civilization, Fantasy General, Heroes of Might and Magic or Jagged Alliance were fashion? Once I used to defend Games against all kind of accusation of brutalizing people. But seeing HOW tremendously games generally and PVP in particular changed from a tactical challange to one of ultra fast rush rush rush, I wonder what kind of change this causes in the mind of people?

Every new generation of games seems faster and more "mindless" than the ones we used to know. It also seems that the pressure it causes upon people, the stress it sets free, also constantly rises up to a point I seriiously feel is unhealthy. I mean, can it really be good to spend hours and hours in an uber rushed adrenaline pushing like this?? Makes me feel old, yes, but also sad of a change towards sheer "power power power" where nuance of gameplay of careful building and preparing are seemingly lost. And that also reflects in the way PVP has changed, it seems.

I can see where you're coming from, look how much Ritalin has sold since it's inception. All droll comments aside, it does seem this way, I can tell and I was born in '89. I think it's just a part of the evolution of society, now we're not limited so much by hardware and like our food, news and electronics much faster. Everyone's going somewhere and doing something, it's a rare occurrence for me to see a 8 year old have enough patience to watch an entire cartoon show much less play a strategic online game or console RPG. (remember when you beat Final Fantasy 7 at that age and read the dialog with 100% retension? Well ... maybe Ultima IV for you ) My neighbor's kid downloaded a game boy advance game in a different language than he could understand because he didn't want to take a little bit longer to find the English version.


The slower-paced strategic online gamer just isn't catered to 100% anymore, they've taken a back seat to the over-population of the "NOWNOWNOW" generation. That's not to say they don't get anything, Civilization IV is good, Starcraft 2 is on the way. Maybe you should play Dofus? It's a free tactical MMO, you'll get plenty of hours out of that. The makers of Dofus also started a project of the same type called Wakfu, check that stuff out. Don't be so disappointed, AoC is just for a different type of gamer. There's still strategy there, it's just split-second.  I hope I helped a bit.

Thats where it gets REALLY to spook me. If a 1989 born person tell me HE observes kids having no patience even to watch a cartoon! No offense, for me, being born 1971 you still are a kid! Well, sorta. ;)

 

Btw, I played Ultima IV when it was new, and boy I had such a blast! We still had to draw our own maps of chequered paper and make long sheets with quests and hints ourselves. Today kids just click the intro cutscene away. I always think, hey those guys took months to make it, and spent lotsa dollars and it looks awesome! But apparently the attenten span and patience is going down all the way. I really dont want to sound so negative, but what I see... it seriously frightens me. Where will that end? What kind of society will those kind of kids make?? I wonder.

I often hear thats how society evolves, and we have no choices. I we hear that form politicans often. There is no choice, its how it goes. I think there is ALWAYS choice, but people say there is no choice to comfort themselves in the choice they already made.

Hey, no offense taken. When I was around 11 I used to play AD&D with my brother and his friends, man we used to have a blast. I had a character named Anakaris (I was obsessed with fighting games as well, namely Darkstalkers) and I was the support/healer type of guy. We had this really geeky computer store clerk (awesome guy)  as the Game Master. Man he used to set up some great games, we'd hang out and play for hours. I was never spoiled as a child, I did a lot of chores for my parents and other people to get the things I had. I saw other kids get $50.00 PSX games at the drop of a hat and I got one once every couple months if I was lucky. (I rented a lot and played at friend's houses, lol) I guess what I'm also saying is you tend to slowly enjoy what you've earned and these kids are tossed king's possessions when they want them.

You seem like you're getting a bit freaked out though, don't worry. A scientist will probably invent some kind of mild sedative that's mandatory for our 'Johnny Bravo' children. Until then don't have a nervous breakdown, relax and close your blinds when there's kids hopped up on CS: Source banging down your door wanting to steal your soul. LOL sorry it's really early, I had to throw in some humor.

Originally posted by Elikal

My first experience with PVP was in SWG, and back then I enjoyed it tremendously. Tbh, I am not the best PVPer, but going into it was a kind of alternative to my always the same PVE.

Lately I have had some PVP in AoC. Now as the Devs of AoC so often say, the combat in AoC is more like Couterstrike. Now I have talked with a few of my friends, and now it seems to me as if there are two totally different concepts of PVP. The current trend, to my misfortune is a very fast paced PVP, or so you might say, as AoC and also WOW herald. The point in those "fast paced" PVPs is, you charge in, and when you start the combat itself, it is a matter of very few seconds until the combat situation is solved, meaning one or more are dead. In reality this means you die very fast, run back and whenever you see one of your men in combat there is little to help him, because usually until you reach him he is either victorious or dead. In those type of accelerated PVP usually 2-3 hits mean the death of the opponent.

In SWG it used to be decelerated PVP, and I much miss that type of PVP nowadays. It took considerbly longer to bring down an opponent, and as a result, there way MUCH more room for maneuvering and tactics.

Age of Conan has practically brought Counterstrike to MMOs, and it essentially IS countersrike combat in a fantasy world. It perfectly fits the Counterstrike-generation of fast death, run and death again. It is all entirely pushing the adrenaline and the fast - and I might say relatively mindless - PVP combat. Gone seem the days when PVP was slow paced and stratetic, when you could not mow down the enemy with 2-3 shots, when PVP was less like Counterstrike and more like Chess. I mean, each to his, but it seems gaming is generally accelerating.

If I take strategy games like "Act of War", I vividly recall it was all happend within seconds. There was virtually no breath to look at the landscape or think of a strategy, or deploy your troops. There was a crisis here and there and all without breaks. I mean, are there really only HYPER HYPER kids playing games these days? Where have the days gone when games like Civilization, Fantasy General, Heroes of Might and Magic or Jagged Alliance were fashion? Once I used to defend Games against all kind of accusation of brutalizing people. But seeing HOW tremendously games generally and PVP in particular changed from a tactical challange to one of ultra fast rush rush rush, I wonder what kind of change this causes in the mind of people?

Every new generation of games seems faster and more "mindless" than the ones we used to know. It also seems that the pressure it causes upon people, the stress it sets free, also constantly rises up to a point I seriiously feel is unhealthy. I mean, can it really be good to spend hours and hours in an uber rushed adrenaline pushing like this?? Makes me feel old, yes, but also sad of a change towards sheer "power power power" where nuance of gameplay of careful building and preparing are seemingly lost. And that also reflects in the way PVP has changed, it seems.

True PvP belongs in FPS games like Quake and TF2 and UT.

Until the time comes when MMORPG's can support per pixel firing that's where it belongs.