General Discussion

Just curious what most people think about this issue. I've read a few developer blogs here and there whereas they desire to maintain the 'status quo' whereas Warriors should Taunt, Healers should Heal, and Mages do the DPS. The mob AI never dashes for the Healer, etc

I am pretty bored with the Trinity myself and wish to at least see radically different Classes and roles. Too me, really I find the relationships we see in sandbox MMORPGs much more complex whereas the game is centered around "dragon slaying" but rather everything merging together as a community to achieve goals. For instance, only in EVE Online Alliances do players coordinate on a global scale to relay Intel, lockdown their Bottlenecks, gather resources, build ships, etc on a huge scale. This is teamwork 24/7 and you all live together at the "same location"

Too me, this is much deeper then "Raiding" which is something we've seen thrown at us without much evolution for past few decades since EQ1

So below I posted a poll is everyone happy with Trinity the way it is - focus on Warrior-Mage-Healer or do you want to see something new envisioned?

I'm tired of classes and levels entirely.  Lazy...

I like to know what my role is, and what my friend roles are.  But I am open-minded to intelligent alternatives.

I can't stand raiding nor EvE nor PvP nor RvR.  I simply wants to group.  Nothing less, nothing more.  From day 1, to the last day where I win/lose and decide to quit.  Soloing is also an interesting option for me if for any reason grouping isn't working.

Raid/PvP/RvR all you want...without me or the like of me.  PUGs lovers are a key part of a successfull community, no matter if you like to PUG or not...and if they are ghetto (ghetto rewards...), you will have ghetto players there...and a shortage of good ol's groupers.  The health of a MMO, for me, it is judged by the quality of it PUGing.

For PUGs, key roles is good.  Doesn't have to be as static as EQ, games like CoX advances the setting and more or less change this trinity thingy, up to the point peoples disagree what the trinity is.

Again, no PUGs, no game.   :P

groupers love the holy trinity.  Simplifies a game that could be extremely complex into something the normal incompetent can contribute to.

classes are here to stay in AAA MMOs there's no changing that for a LOOOOOOONNNNNNNGGGGGGGGG.

Originally posted by paulscott

groupers love the holy trinity.  Simplifies a game that could be extremely complex into something the normal incompetent can contribute to.

classes are here to stay in AAA MMOs there's no changing that for a LOOOOOOONNNNNNNGGGGGGGGG.

I am a grouper. I don't love this holy trinity of which you speak. Therefore you are a liar, and I am not prone to believe anything you have to say, and I hope no one else is either.

That aside, I think the "Holy Trinity" is Tank, Healer, DPSer (not mage).

And THAT aside, I don't think it is the "Holy Trinity" that is a problem so much as the prevalence of content that forces people into one of the trinity's roles... i.e. raids.

You will likely notice quite a correlation, reguardless of what you think.

I'd be willing to bet big time that your views of grouping would be radically different if you started on a skill based(avatar) game instead of class based one(please note that says exactly what it says, not that you would like grouping more or less).

Originally posted by paulscott

You will likely notice quite a correlation, reguardless of what you think.

I'd be willing to bet big time that your views of grouping would be radically different if you started on a skill based(avatar) game instead of class based one(please note that says exactly what it says, not that you would like grouping more or less).

Enlighten me.

How exactly, is a game built upon a skill-based system going to break the mold of the holy trinity?

Will players not have to do damage to kill things?

Will players not need to heal to keep from dying?

Will some players not be better able to sustain damage than others?

If they do need to do these things... then you still have the holy trinity, because the holy trinity consists of roles that are filled by different players. Those roles will be filled regardless of whether the game has classes specifically designed to fit into one of the roles or the game has a plethora of skills and players just pick up the ones they want.

Unless the game we are talking about so greatly redefines the MMORPG genre that there is no need for tanking, healing, or damage dealing, the holy trinity will remain.

Ironically, I believe that a game that did a good job not of breaking, but at least bending, the mold of the holy trinity... was EverQuest. Sure, you had tanks, and healers, and damage dealers. However, there were perhaps only two classes in the entire game (warriors and rogues) that could only fill one of those roles.

eve is completely ruined by politics and elitism, I get really bored of this 'holier than thou' view of Eve. Good corps require 25M sp. Thats what ... a years playtime with NO option of accelerating the process. People like the holy trinity because they can make a healer, level it up to their hearts content and SHEZAM they are a valuable asset to RvR. EVE is the complete worst-case scenario of sandboxing - people want a lot of skills and generally dont care too much about exactly what skills you have. You end up with 2 types of corps - n00b corps that all have small amounts of skills in the same area (i.e. BS PvE) where people are interchangeable and elitist corps that want 25m sp from every member - either way there is absolutely no incentive to train skills toward one specific role. Give me a good old fashioned RAID or RVR battle anyday.

Originally posted by grimboj

eve is completely ruined by politics and elitism, I get really bored of this 'holier than thou' view of Eve. Good corps require 25M sp. Thats what ... a years playtime with NO option of accelerating the process. People like the holy trinity because they can make a healer, level it up to their hearts content and SHEZAM they are a valuable asset to RvR. EVE is the complete worst-case scenario of sandboxing - people want a lot of skills and generally dont care too much about exactly what skills you have. You end up with 2 types of corps - n00b corps that all have small amounts of skills in the same area (i.e. BS PvE) where people are interchangeable and elitist corps that want 25m sp from every member - either way there is absolutely no incentive to train skills toward one specific role. Give me a good old fashioned RAID or RVR battle anyday.

You're way off base. A corp that requires 25 million SP in Eve would be like a guild in WoW that requires you to have full epics from the second newest raid in order to apply. They are both rare. They are not the only "good" groups to get in with.

You can be a valuable asset in Eve with less than one month spent training. And, for players who aren't able to spend 40+ hours a week in game, Eve actually might let you become a valuable asset sooner than a game based on experience and leveling.

Furthermore, there is great incentive to train towards a specific role in Eve, especially when you consider that basically every single thing you can do in Eve is a "specific role". You don't see anyone flying an interceptor who plans on not only scrambling but also DPSing down a battleship; you don't see anyone flying a falcon who is planning on shield repping friends while also jamming opponents; etc.

Really, the only way you can be useful in group pvp in Eve at all is to have at least one specific role you can fill well. And since that is the only way to be useful in pvp... it seems like there could not be MORE incentive to specialize, rather than the "no incentive" at all that you talk about.