General Discussion

So I was just reading the 'Living NPCs' thread and it got me thinking; What if an MMO was created with absolutely no NPC content?

We all know UO (in it's hay day) was loved by a huge number of fans, many of whom are still loyal to the 'old' UO to this very day. Why? Because players were literally forced to interact with one another on an almost constant basis. NPCs had very little use (apart from loot), and most of the game revolved around PvP and player interaction.

So, imagine an MMO with no NPC vendors, no NPC guards... No NPC monsters. A world in which players would *have* to create their own lives, their own stories and their own quests. You want loot? Go kill another player and loot him! You want to buy some new armour? Go visit a player that's been training crafting and is capable of making it for you. You've been killed by someone and looted? Gather some friends together and go kill him back!

Okay, so a world entirely devoid of NPC life may be a little far fetched, but I think this is a trick current MMO developers are really missing out on. It seems that the current emphasis is to create a game that'll play much like a single player game in 'co op' mode, with NPC interaction playing an enormous part. I know for a fact that there are a huge number of MMO fans that, having played older MMORPGs when they were first released, miss that feeling of absolute 'sandbox' freedom. An MMO is about players interacting with one another and NPCs really needn't play a large part. I think the first developer to realise this could, potentially, make an absolute fortune.

Originally posted by Hohbein

So I was just reading the 'Living NPCs' thread and it got me thinking; What if an MMO was created with absolutely no NPC content?

We all know UO (in it's hay day) was loved by a huge number of fans, many of whom are still loyal to the 'old' UO to this very day. Why? Because players were literally forced to interact with one another on an almost constant basis. NPCs had very little use (apart from loot), and most of the game revolved around PvP and player interaction.

So, imagine an MMO with no NPC vendors, no NPC guards... No NPC monsters. A world in which players would *have* to create their own lives, their own stories and their own quests. You want loot? Go kill another player and loot him! You want to buy some new armour? Go visit a player that's been training crafting and is capable of making it for you. You've been killed by someone and looted? Gather some friends together and go kill him back!

Okay, so a world entirely devoid of NPC life may be a little far fetched, but I think this is a trick current MMO developers are really missing out on. It seems that the current emphasis is to create a game that'll play much like a single player game in 'co op' mode, with NPC interaction playing an enormous part. I know for a fact that there are a huge number of MMO fans that, having played older MMORPGs when they were first released, miss that feeling of absolute 'sandbox' freedom. An MMO is about players interacting with one another and NPCs really needn't play a large part. I think the first developer to realise this could, potentially, make an absolute fortune.

Oh yea...that'll fly...NOT!  Been tried before and the game was called AC2.  No NPC's.   Game flopped.  Sorry.

Wow, so one example automatically disproves the entire theory, yeah?  I'm glad no one at NASA ever thought like you.

Or anyone who's ever invented... anything.

There's a way to do an NPC-less MMOG correctly.  In fact, PlanetSide proves you don't need NPCs at all for a good MMOG.

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by Hohbein

So I was just reading the 'Living NPCs' thread and it got me thinking; What if an MMO was created with absolutely no NPC content?

We all know UO (in it's hay day) was loved by a huge number of fans, many of whom are still loyal to the 'old' UO to this very day. Why? Because players were literally forced to interact with one another on an almost constant basis. NPCs had very little use (apart from loot), and most of the game revolved around PvP and player interaction.

So, imagine an MMO with no NPC vendors, no NPC guards... No NPC monsters. A world in which players would *have* to create their own lives, their own stories and their own quests. You want loot? Go kill another player and loot him! You want to buy some new armour? Go visit a player that's been training crafting and is capable of making it for you. You've been killed by someone and looted? Gather some friends together and go kill him back!

Okay, so a world entirely devoid of NPC life may be a little far fetched, but I think this is a trick current MMO developers are really missing out on. It seems that the current emphasis is to create a game that'll play much like a single player game in 'co op' mode, with NPC interaction playing an enormous part. I know for a fact that there are a huge number of MMO fans that, having played older MMORPGs when they were first released, miss that feeling of absolute 'sandbox' freedom. An MMO is about players interacting with one another and NPCs really needn't play a large part. I think the first developer to realise this could, potentially, make an absolute fortune.

Oh yea...that'll fly...NOT!  Been tried before and the game was called AC2.  No NPC's.   Game flopped.  Sorry.

Err, I've never played AC2, but after 5 seconds on Wiki I found:

Most quests (but not all) could be repeated for multiple rewards after the passage of time. There was significant variety in the quests offered in AC2: some were centered on simply combating an overpopulation of a certain type of monster, some involved entering a dungeon or cave to destroy a powerful "boss" monster, some involved running errands for NPCs, or escorting NPCs to safety, in addition to the epic style quests that involved the major NPCs in the current or past story arcs.

So yea... you're pretty much completely wrong?

Originally posted by Hohbein

 

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by Hohbein

So I was just reading the 'Living NPCs' thread and it got me thinking; What if an MMO was created with absolutely no NPC content?

We all know UO (in it's hay day) was loved by a huge number of fans, many of whom are still loyal to the 'old' UO to this very day. Why? Because players were literally forced to interact with one another on an almost constant basis. NPCs had very little use (apart from loot), and most of the game revolved around PvP and player interaction.

So, imagine an MMO with no NPC vendors, no NPC guards... No NPC monsters. A world in which players would *have* to create their own lives, their own stories and their own quests. You want loot? Go kill another player and loot him! You want to buy some new armour? Go visit a player that's been training crafting and is capable of making it for you. You've been killed by someone and looted? Gather some friends together and go kill him back!

Okay, so a world entirely devoid of NPC life may be a little far fetched, but I think this is a trick current MMO developers are really missing out on. It seems that the current emphasis is to create a game that'll play much like a single player game in 'co op' mode, with NPC interaction playing an enormous part. I know for a fact that there are a huge number of MMO fans that, having played older MMORPGs when they were first released, miss that feeling of absolute 'sandbox' freedom. An MMO is about players interacting with one another and NPCs really needn't play a large part. I think the first developer to realise this could, potentially, make an absolute fortune.

Oh yea...that'll fly...NOT!  Been tried before and the game was called AC2.  No NPC's.   Game flopped.  Sorry.

 

Err, I've never played AC2, but after 5 seconds on Wiki I found:

Most quests (but not all) could be repeated for multiple rewards after the passage of time. There was significant variety in the quests offered in AC2: some were centered on simply combating an overpopulation of a certain type of monster, some involved entering a dungeon or cave to destroy a powerful "boss" monster, some involved running errands for NPCs, or escorting NPCs to safety, in addition to the epic style quests that involved the major NPCs in the current or past story arcs.

So yea... you're pretty much completely wrong?

And yes...it was the main reason the game failed...because the world was devoid of anything to really interact with.  I played on Coldeve(KingdomvsKingdom) server.  What server did you play on?

Originally posted by Hohbein

So I was just reading the 'Living NPCs' thread and it got me thinking; What if an MMO was created with absolutely no NPC content?

We all know UO (in it's hay day) was loved by a huge number of fans, many of whom are still loyal to the 'old' UO to this very day. Why? Because players were literally forced to interact with one another on an almost constant basis. NPCs had very little use (apart from loot), and most of the game revolved around PvP and player interaction.

So, imagine an MMO with no NPC vendors, no NPC guards... No NPC monsters. A world in which players would *have* to create their own lives, their own stories and their own quests. You want loot? Go kill another player and loot him! You want to buy some new armour? Go visit a player that's been training crafting and is capable of making it for you. You've been killed by someone and looted? Gather some friends together and go kill him back!

Okay, so a world entirely devoid of NPC life may be a little far fetched, but I think this is a trick current MMO developers are really missing out on. It seems that the current emphasis is to create a game that'll play much like a single player game in 'co op' mode, with NPC interaction playing an enormous part. I know for a fact that there are a huge number of MMO fans that, having played older MMORPGs when they were first released, miss that feeling of absolute 'sandbox' freedom. An MMO is about players interacting with one another and NPCs really needn't play a large part. I think the first developer to realise this could, potentially, make an absolute fortune.

This could work really well. It just need to be easy to play, hard to master.

Originally posted by lkavadas

Wow, so one example automatically disproves the entire theory, yeah?  I'm glad no one at NASA ever thought like you.

Or anyone who's ever invented... anything.

There's a way to do an NPC-less MMOG correctly.  In fact, PlanetSide proves you don't need NPCs at all for a good MMOG.

Yes...it proved that that sort of game would fail and fail every time.  Why?  Because it required players to do it all from the beginning - from scratch.  If someone was willing to harvest and learn how to craft then the only things you'd have are what you got from quest and MOB drops.

When people who came to the game for the first time the day it went live they were like...were are the people?  Who do we buy from?  Where do we sell things?  Why can we not enter the buildings?  Where are the people?  This is why people said AC2 felt cold and didn't feel alive...it had no "soul".

I know...because I was there.  Because people were coming down hard on Turbine and the game.  You guys think people were hard on Vanguard.  LOL!  Then you don't know what serious ranting is because the level of hatred that came from people toward Turbine got so bad AC2 Vault even created a special forum just for "rants" about AC2.

Why do you think AC2 failed so meserably?  Because it was a dead game from the get go.

Originally posted by Teala

 

Originally posted by lkavadas

Wow, so one example automatically disproves the entire theory, yeah?  I'm glad no one at NASA ever thought like you.

Or anyone who's ever invented... anything.

There's a way to do an NPC-less MMOG correctly.  In fact, PlanetSide proves you don't need NPCs at all for a good MMOG.

Yes...it proved that that sort of game woudl fgail and fail every time.  Why?  Because it required players to it all from the beginning - from scratch.  If someone was willing to harvest and learn how to craft then the only things you'd have are what you got from quest and MOB drops.

 

When people who came to the game for the first time the day it went live they were like...were are the people?  Who do we buy from?  Where do w