Age of Conan

Originally posted by mrw0lf

From the information at hand, it would seem that a 20 man guild would not stand much chance of actually taking a keep anyway, not without hiring a hell of a lot of mercs. It takes A LOT of time and effort to get the keep and its only right it should take an equal amount or more for someone to take it away, these are not ready made bases waiting to be inhabited, they are effectively player/crafter made cities. The odds in attack/sieging are stacked against you, defence will be by far easier as your fighting the defenders and effectivly the keep itself.

Again we will have to see how this all plays out on live servers, but the scenario of 'coming upon a keep with buddies and taking it out' like a boss mob or something is way off from what we've been told so far. You'll need a whole lot of preparation, and they've not said much in the way of spawning, so it may come down to attrition as much as tactics, we will just have to wait and see how this plays out.

For that matter I wonder just how long it will be before the first BK is built, however long it is, I'm willing to bet the requirements go up massively over time .

Well first off, a 20 man guild has zero chances of taking a keep, mercs or no. Because you need a level 3 player city before you can build a BK. And you need at least 30 guild members before you can build a PvE City. :)

Other then that. Your right on the money.

Originally posted by Fion

 

Originally posted by mrw0lf

From the information at hand, it would seem that a 20 man guild would not stand much chance of actually taking a keep anyway, not without hiring a hell of a lot of mercs. It takes A LOT of time and effort to get the keep and its only right it should take an equal amount or more for someone to take it away, these are not ready made bases waiting to be inhabited, they are effectively player/crafter made cities. The odds in attack/sieging are stacked against you, defence will be by far easier as your fighting the defenders and effectivly the keep itself.

Again we will have to see how this all plays out on live servers, but the scenario of 'coming upon a keep with buddies and taking it out' like a boss mob or something is way off from what we've been told so far. You'll need a whole lot of preparation, and they've not said much in the way of spawning, so it may come down to attrition as much as tactics, we will just have to wait and see how this plays out.

For that matter I wonder just how long it will be before the first BK is built, however long it is, I'm willing to bet the requirements go up massively over time .

 

Well first off, a 20 man guild has zero chances of taking a keep, mercs or no. Because you need a level 3 player city before you can build a BK. And you need at least 30 guild members before you can build a PvE City. :)

Other then that. Your right on the money.

Edit: Cool, apparently you do have to take over the keep you attack so I guess you do need to be eligible for keep staus to attack in the first place.

Ok, as I understand the whole siege thing;

There are a limited number of siege plots in the "open world".

To build on one your guild must meet certain criteria, and even people within the guild in order to place buildings.

In order to "lay siege" you must declare so.

Taking part in a siege and actualy capturing the keep slot for your guild is not the same thing.

The attacking guild can invite anyone they please to join them, with a cap on the number of participants.

If more than one guild is vying for control of the keep a system is in place to determine priority for the guild with the "highest level of criteria". The winning guild will own the keep and be responsible for rebuilding in the event that the siege is successful. Other people will still be able to join in if required or there is room.

Criteria is linked to the overall level of involvement or competence in the PvP enviroment.

They simply have to set some form of criteria to decide which guild will get to own the keep after a winning battle because of the small number of keeps in the open world.

I'm honestly astounded at the number of people complaining about the possibility of a grind in the mini games.

Let's seriously step back and stand aside from the mentality. Everyone complaining wants open world pvp because of why? It's FUN! Not for experience points, or gear upgrades, but because it is FUN.

I have easily seen hundreds of people here saying "I want to do open world PVP! But I can't because all the exp and goods are going to be from mini game grinding so no one else will do world PVP!"

It SEEMS what you REALLY mean to say is "While I am saying I want to do open world pvp for fun, I acknowledge the real EXP will be in mini games, so I am going to go back on my own love of the game and do the mini games just like everyone else for the best loot, then come complain on the forums about it!"

Last I checked, no one is forcing anyone to do mini games OR open world pvp. The COMMUNITY decides what becomes more popular. So instead of whining to Funcom about how they should force players to play the way the cry babies on the forums want to play, how about the cry babies on the forums actually talk to the community (Which in the end will decide all manners of pvp, since you can't have Player VS Player without the PLAYERS) and get the Open World PvP going on their own?

The whole bloody argument is just people who don't want to do minigames crying because they're going to do minigames anyways. Just don't do the bloody things and actually get people INTO open world PVP.

God knows, if I attacked the baby cows in Mulgore enough, sooner or later, a group of people would swat me away.

Originally posted by nikoliath

Ok, as I understand the whole siege thing;

 

There are a limited number of siege plots in the "open world".

To build on one your guild must meet certain criteria, and even people within the guild in order to place buildings.

In order to "lay siege" you must declare so.

Taking part in a siege and actualy capturing the keep slot for your guild is not the same thing.

The attacking guild can invite anyone they please to join them, with a cap on the number of participants.

If more than one guild is vying for control of the keep a system is in place to determine priority for the guild with the "highest level of criteria". The winning guild will own the keep and be responsible for rebuilding in the event that the siege is successful. Other people will still be able to join in if required or there is room.

Criteria is linked to the overall level of involvement or competence in the PvP enviroment.

 

They simply have to set some form of criteria to decide which guild will get to own the keep after a winning battle because of the small number of keeps in the open world.

You have it dead on. The criteria to take a 'plot' in a siege is fairly strait forward. The defenders start with a number of points. The attackers with zero. The attackers gain points with each kill and with each building/wall section they manage to destroy (the number depending on the size.) They get a huge number of points if they manage to take down the Keep at the center. At the end of the 2 hour window, if the attackers have more points then the defenders, the attackers win the slot and whats left of the BK (if anything) is destroyed and the winners can start building their own. Alternatively if the attackers do NOT have as many points as the Defenders (IE the defenders have put up a good.. defense. ;) ) then the defenders get to keep the er.. Keep.

:) It's relatively strait forward and simple. It is a good bit of rules to cover this, but you need some rules to prevent all out chaos. While chaos would be nice, it would create no small amount of crap for CS and others to deal with.

Oh and one more thing. If more then one guild want to attack the same keep at the same time. It appears which ever guild has members with the highest PvP level gets first crack. If Guild A's highest member is PvP level 12 and guild B has 4 PvP level 20 members. GUild B gets to go first. But hey theres nothing to prevent Guild A from helping out. So long as they don't exceed the cap. :)

Originally posted by Downsy

I'm honestly astounded at the number of people complaining about the possibility of a grind in the mini games.

Let's seriously step back and stand aside from the mentality. Everyone complaining wants open world pvp because of why? It's FUN! Not for experience points, or gear upgrades, but because it is FUN.

I have easily seen hundreds of people here saying "I want to do open world PVP! But I can't because all the exp and goods are going to be from mini game grinding so no one else will do world PVP!"

It SEEMS what you REALLY mean to say is "While I am saying I want to do open world pvp for fun, I acknowledge the real EXP will be in mini games, so I am going to go back on my own love of the game and do the mini games just like everyone else for the best loot, then come complain on the forums about it!"

Last I checked, no one is forcing anyone to do mini games OR open world pvp. The COMMUNITY decides what becomes more popular. So instead of whining to Funcom about how they should force players to play the way the cry babies on the forums want to play, how about the cry babies on the forums actually talk to the community (Which in the end will decide all manners of pvp, since you can't have Player VS Player without the PLAYERS) and get the Open World PvP going on their own?

The whole bloody argument is just people who don't want to do minigames crying because they're going to do minigames anyways. Just don't do the bloody things and actually get people INTO open world PVP.

God knows, if I attacked the baby cows in Mulgore enough, sooner or later, a group of people would swat me away.

 

Yes, exactly. The real funny part is it's painfully apparent that Minigames will NOT be the best source of PvP gear/levels/etc. Open World PvP will. These folks are just stuck in a WoW state of mind.

In WoW most people do BG's not because they are the most fun. But because they offer a vastly greater reward. You can spend hours doing Open World PvP in WoW and get 100honor. You can spend 20 minutes doing AV and get 400. It's clearly better.

In AoC however you don't get 'bonus xp' by winning a match, or even at the end of a match. You ONLY get xp for killing players. Each player killed gets spread to your entire group. So it only makes sense that you would get less xp for killing 20 other players, then you would when theres 100 others on the play field. On top of that, holding an objective or building a BK in the Open World PvP has tremendous bonuses for your guild. Hell some of the best gear in the game supposedly will only be build-able if you have a BK. Taking a Battle Tower gives your guild several 'guild-wide' bonuses. Holding a Resource Node gives you access to some of the rarest resources in the game, prime materials you'll want on hand for building some of the best gear, and for building a Battle Keep, etc.

So it's immensely clear that PvP Minigames don't offer remotely the best 'reward' for participating. Open World PvP is. Thus the whole 'we'll all be grinding minigames all day long' argument is MOOT.

Originally posted by Fion

 

Originally posted by Downsy

I'm honestly astounded at the number of people complaining about the possibility of a grind in the mini games.

Let's seriously step back and stand aside from the mentality. Everyone complaining wants open world pvp because of why? It's FUN! Not for experience points, or gear upgrades, but because it is FUN.

I have easily seen hundreds of people here saying "I want to do open world PVP! But I can't because all the exp and goods are going to be from mini game grinding so no one else will do world PVP!"

It SEEMS what you REALLY mean to say is "While I am saying I want to do open world pvp for fun, I acknowledge the real EXP will be in mini games, so I am going to go back on my own love of the game and do the mini games just like everyone else for the best loot, then come complain on the forums about it!"

Last I checked, no one is forcing anyone to do mini games OR open world pvp. The COMMUNITY decides what becomes more popular. So instead of whining to Funcom about how they should force players to play the way the cry babies on the forums want to play, how about the cry babies on the forums actually talk to the community (Which in the end will decide all manners of pvp, since you can't have Player VS Player without the PLAYERS) and get the Open World PvP going on their own?

The whole bloody argument is just people who don't want to do minigames crying because they're going to do minigames anyways. Just don't do the bloody things and actually get people INTO open world PVP.

God knows, if I attacked the baby cows in Mulgore enough, sooner or later, a group of people would swat me away.

 

 

Yes, exactly. The real funny part is it's painfully apparent that Minigames will NOT be the best source of PvP gear/levels/etc. Open World PvP will. These folks are just stuck in a WoW state of mind.

In WoW most people do BG's not because they are the most fun. But because they offer a vastly greater reward. You can spend hours doing Open World PvP in WoW and get 100honor. You can spend 20 minutes doing AV and get 400. It's clearly better.

In AoC however you don't get 'bonus xp' by winning a match, or even at the end of a match. You ONLY get xp for killing players. Each player killed gets spread to your entire group. So it only makes sense that you would get less xp for killing 20 other players, then you would when theres 100 others on the play field. On top of that, holding an objective or building a BK in the Open World PvP has tremendous bonuses for your guild. Hell some of the best gear in the game supposedly will only be build-able if you have a BK. Taking a Battle Tower gives your guild several 'guild-wide' bonuses. Holding a Resource Node gives you access to some of the rarest resources in the game, prime materials you'll want on hand for building some of the best gear, and for building a Battle Keep, etc.

So it's immensely clear that PvP Minigames don't offer remotely the best 'reward' for participating. Open World PvP is. Thus the whole 'we'll all be grinding minigames all day long' argument is MOOT.

nope mini games will be the best source for many people it will happen wether you want to admit it or not. Sad but true no need for mini games in a game like this.