EVE Online

perhaps my assumption taht you were trying to make the atmosphere of your post seem unbiased was incorrect.

Regardless let me break it down for you.

1. you have never played. (meaning your only knowledge comes from other people and no real working knowledge)

2. You have very strong opinions.

3. your post makes you seem very set in these opinions. (hence the "you already know what you think")

If i put those three together it screams "I know how this game is I've read this forum (a place people post their opinions) for a bit and now know about the game"

this is very much akin to the Christians vs D&D effect

1. My pasture (substitute with any other authority figure) told me this game is evil and satanic

2. Well my pasture can't be wrong about this he is very wise and holy man so I will take on his beliefs blindly

3. I will refuse to listen to any refuting things said about it and not see with my own eyes what it's like and then use my own mind to make up my opinion.

Same outcome. They are letting someone other than themselves decide how they think.

And you right and wrong at the same time. While yes you can't "catch up" in skill points. You can catch up in knowledge and isk (knowledge being 90% of power in the game). I've been playing for almost 3 years and I've got a 6 month old player in my corp who has made more in his 6 months than I have in my three years he has also downed several people who are alot older than him. Asfar as everyone being a griefer and ruining peoples fun just because? While there are a few griefers in the game (there are some in EVERY MMO) they are few and far between. pirates are not killing haulers because they think its funny and are trying to ruin your game they are doing it because you have stuff on your ship they can sell for isks. Also they DO risk loss they mabe sitting with 4 guys on a gate and say a single battleship comes through. Easy pickings. what they don't know is this guy is tanked to hell and has scrams on and buddies sitting 1-2 jumps out waiting on the signal to come in guess what if they get caught by the guy they are most likely screwed. Most of them know there are anti-pirates lurking out there hunting them and that this is a very possible outcome yet they still gatecamp It's not that they don't risk or lose anything it's that they accept this possiblity just like the people "breaking" the gatecamp accept that they might fail. Yes they run to dock if the see it comming most of the time because they are trying to profit from this and getting blown up is NOT profitable. and befor you point a finger I'm an anti-pirate I just happen to know the game i play and my role and opposed role very well.

Point by point

Ok so you think it has made up to top 5 and read it somewhere..

Whether or not EVE-online is in the top 5 for total pay-for-play subs isn't really material to what I am saying. The fact is that the eve-online player base continues to swell NOT get smaller. You cannot chalk all of this up to "marketing."

Eve online offers a lot to many different people who try eve and continue to play it. Any argument that EVE needs to change its fundamentals or it will:

1. fail

2. make everyone quit

3. force CCP out of busines

4. etc. etc. etc. etc

Fails. Nothing more needs to be said about arguments like this.

But then again not everyone experience this during these 14 days and even 14 days is a short period of time you might not get ganked at all durring this period not before you pay for the game.

If you make it out of the 14 day trial and aren't tacitly aware of what can happen to you while playing eve-online you've failed to do the tutorial or didn't talk to anyone during your trial.

And your right, you could go that entire trial without being ganked. I've got a hi-sec mission running alt that hasn't been ganked in the year and a half the character has existed.

Which just goes to show that isolated instances of suicide ganking in high-sec are not the rule..

As for the tutorial I took was not very in deepth it was very simple and brief.. then again I never did the tutorial more than once so if EVE has made it better now it's good. Many still chooses not to read long EULA's and tutorials so no KUDOS for CCP.. there should be a plain bug writing when game load in that you this is a game which most likely will get you killed at some point ofourse that won't sell anything giving people a warning before they actually start the game.

That's ridiculous. So the MMO you play now, you're avatar has never been killed? Listen, everyone who plays ANY MMO assumes that they will die at some point.

As far as CCPs tutorial, I'm doubting you've ever even tried the game. Eve has a 33 part tutorial that opens up automatically the first time you log into a newly created character.

Doing the entire tutorial took me almost 2 and half hours when I was a noob. Some of the things that are covered are:

Being Pod Killed

Insurance

Losing a Ship

Clones

And Venue (When and where fights happen)

Very little that you know of I would expect... but when there is many topics about people complaining about it I doubt it's so few as you will have it to be. As for baiting not all noobs even know they can ban people for it and it's easy just to create a new account anyway if you get banned. Ofcourse it's pity if it's a old toon you have banned but these guys are veterans and more careful of what they do and not stupid either. As for suicide ganking it really depends on the guys wallet and some believe it or not do it just for fun because they got too much resources and nothing better to do. This topic is still regarding ganking of new players so actually not valid point here.

First, when CCP bans you, they ban every character attached to your IP. So single bans hit all the offending persons accounts. There are many high profile examples of this.

Second, of course people complain about dieing. They do in every PVP MMO--plain and simple.

For the most part, however, I'll stick by my guns. People are killed during the course of regular game play--for a reason. Namely they are flying something that was a juicy target for someone else.

If the victim has made it far enough to fly a ship worth killing then they aren't a true "noob" and have had plenty of opportunity to witness what can happen to you in eve.

They just didn't care until THEY get killed.

Yes you get a warning when you jump into low sec.

And unless you disable the message, you get the warning every single time you jump into low-sec.

Not everyone who goes into low sec on purpose I didn't do it 1st time when I went there.. I put auto pilot on and had no idea it was going through low sec.

Well I guess you should have done the tutorial about navigation. :-P Seriously though, when you set a destination to autopilot too it tells you in bright red where you're projected path will take you through low-sec.

Its not the games fault you didn't pay attention. Just like its not EQ2s fault if I wander on "accident" into a level 60 area and get killed when I was a noob in EQ2.

This is true most people have to do this because it's no point risk a good character for something simple as this since you can have alts CCP gives people this opperunity to "scout" or use less valuable toons for risky stuff. however this only applies to people that knows EVE not noobs as this topic is about.

It has nothing to do with the "value" of the character. Its not like there is much of a difference between a 50million sp character in a shuttle or a 800k skill point character in a shuttle. In both cases getting blown up costs you exactly the same thing... 9,000 isk.

They use noob alts because noob alts belong to NPC corps. Its not clear if the person is really a noob or an alt. If it is an alt whose scout is it? Are they hauling something worth my time trying to catch the guy? Etc.

Its about subterfuge and misdirection, not about using a "less valuable toon."

And, as a point of fact, noob alts are used to haul expensive items precisely because they are MUCH less likely to be targeted and killed by a pirate. Plain and simple.

There was not much encouraging there. One of my friends was actually tricked down to low sec again with the promise to get his stuff back since he was a noob. I told him not to go but he ignored me and got podded.. he was so furiious he uninstalled the game the very moment.

Pirates usually don't say anything to you other than "gf" (which sometimes isn't appropriate when you get ganked in a 5v1 ) unless you smack talk them in local.

So if you were like "screw you guys? You suck, you're a bunch of griefers!" You're going to be treated in the way you described.

Though I wasn't there, so I'm not really sure the situation.

When I was first killed and podded (on day 3) I was convo'd by the guy who killed me. We chated, I asked questions, he offered advice and sent me enough isk to fit 3 combat frigates. Much later I actually merged my corp with his and we flew together for thebetter part of a year.

You would think so but a good portion of the old pplayers has done most and is truly bored and is doing griefing spree. I've been offered many times to join up on these parties when our corp was apart of an alliance but respectfully decline the offer because I didn't see any point on making the day bad for no good reason for a totally unknown player.

First, I have serious doubts that "old" players are what they say they are. If they were "old" players they'd remember the days of m0o (before my time even) when there were no limits on pvp at all. No concord to kill someone for shooting you in hi-sec, no gate guns, no faction police etc.

If the game has gotten a bit nastier I chalk that up to simple economics. There are now 40,000 logged onto the server at any given time (up from the 12,000 when I started playing). Given the same amount of finite game resources with nearly 4x the players, there is more fighting over them.

Then there is goonswarm. I won't even comment about these metagaming SA retards who've said repeatedly that they'd like to destroy eve and CCP.

No this is were you're a bit off they are actually bothered but they have no idea nor the experience as regarding all jamming and shit because well most people like to get into new and better stuff rather quickly and in EVE unfortunalty you die very quickly as well your hard earned BS is zero worth, but then again you need to know the game to know that. And most people starting out don't know that a tech 1 BS is bad and even worse if not tanked in some way. So no wonder they show up in forums complaining. You need to know about things which most fresh BS people have no clue about.

Well I guess that's part of the learning process. If they've never visited the forums, never talked to anyone in-game about what they should be flying and where, and they just assume "geepers I'm in a Battleship and I can take on those nasty player pirates if they attack me in low-sec" they aren't using their brains. And when they are killed, because they've jumped in an active pvp zone that they've been warned about before jumping into it, there is really no excuse.

If you are truly bothered by what happens when you do this, go play a different game. Again there are a number of good pvp optional or pve only games out there. You shouldn't be on the eve-o forums demanding that a niche pvp game be changed to your liking by removing the pvp.

Unless you like tormenting yourself you choose to make the msg not appear again so you won't get 20 warnings more like 3-4 before you choose to disable the msg.

Either way, you've been warned. If you've seen it 4 times then disabled it, I assume you know exactly what's possible when you're jumping into low-sec. If you ignore the warnings that's your fault not the games.

Scamming allowed in EVE? whaoo there was a huge issue about it in 05 and CCP clearly said that they don't support any type of scamming so scamming was NOT allowed in EVE at least when I played more than a year ago.

Scamming has always been allowed in eve given in-game mechanics. That is to say, if you can convince someone to give you money in-game either by chatting to them, or through the contract system, you can keep it.

Where scamming is NOT allowed is where real money is involved. So you will get banned for selling fake play-time cards for isk (CCP allows you to buy playtime cards from other players for isk) or character sale scams (you can sell characters for isk also).

Everyone should be aware of this given that some of the eve-online scams have been so huge that its made multiple industry publications.

For example: http://publications.mediapost.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=Articles.showArticle&art_aid=47886

You try to appear as a person who is grown asking others who has a complaint to grow up and yet you're not a better person are you? People will always complain if treated unfair by others in game and when you tell a person to grow up and deal with it in short makes you a very nice person.

Not really.. you support shitheads and no offense yeah you end up as one as well. It's your own choice no one else than you choose to behave like you do.

So as for name calling was rightfully placed because you support scamming and your play style as dark as you like. It was really yourself that made a name for yourself no assumpotion needed here.

 This doesn't even deserve a response. But I will. So I am a bad person because I treat people "unfairly" and support a pvp MMO?

That's fine I suppose, but everyone who plays the terrorists in counter strike better also be bad people, and when they snipe a first time CS player, they're unfairly treating that first time player, which I guess makes the "shitheads."

And by the way, the only person I ever told to grow up was the guy who was complaining that the Privateers nerf was unfairly LIMITING PVP. So I was defending your point of view to some extent. Its interesting that you'd critique me for it.

No I'm happy I don't know you and I would not ever want you as a real life friend with your mentality towards strangers well I need say no more. True I have no fats of your life except that you enjoy feeding on others misery which well you more or less have stated in your posting.

Again, the internet is no judge of character. You don't know me, and you don't know anything about me, other than I like eve-online and I can articulate a defense of the design of the game.

In a larger sense I fail to see why you've characterize me as you have. I haven't called anyone names, I haven't been combative (except when telling people who know nothing about me to stop calling me a rapist). I've even told you that I provide every "true noob" I kill with the isk to replace their stuff and advice, yet you are still seeing me as a "bad" person.

My guess this has more to do with boosting your own ego by othering a playstyle you don't understand and essentiallizing it. If this is the case than this entire post is a waste of my breath, because you'll never even TRY to get it. Your own identity relies on me being what you've essentialized me as.

Also, for those who are paying attention, pirates mostly fight other pirates these days. That's what they're doing 90% of the time.

And anti-pirates blob more than pirates. But the fact is, everyone blobs. It happens.

I've been playing quite a good bunch of evil characters or roles in a game. However this is within a set of rules which involves only a few players rpg and single player games which require you to play evil.

Treating unknown people badly and scamming them makes you a imo very lousy person. I never implied that a person like yourself is a rapist or murderer but your values towards others is using your own words fucked up.

First I never suggested that it was you who implied those things. That was meant as a critique of this thread generally. Second, again I am not calling anyone names here. I'm not the one who is saying "geese you're a shithead" or "you are a fucked up person." In my opinion that sort of behavior on your part reflects more on you than it does me.

However, I understand that this is the interweb. Things are not always as they appear. In the final analysis it doesn't really matter what you think or say. My game--eve--isn't going to change. You can sit on your throne and castigate me for participating in an openly un-restricted pvp MMO all you want.

I will steadfastly deny that eve is all about griefing. Most people who play understand, shit happens. Pirates (like myself) sometimes get ganked and blobbed by other pirates and anti-pirates. Sometimes my hauler alt gets suicided.

We don't get too worked up about it though. Its the nature of the game we play--like the phrase "its part of the game."

The real problem is total lack of understanding in regards to what eve is, and what eve is trying to be. If you would have an open mind while you approached the topic you'd note... its just a game, a game that's focus is pvp.

Like many other games such as Call of Duty or Halo. The difference is there is a real penalty for dieing. Some people take that penalty too personally. Especially those who expect eve to conform to other MMOs.

For the vast majority of us who play eve though its this penalty that MAKEs the game what it is. I still, after two years, get a rush of adrenaline in every fight I get in. Doesn't matter with whom, or where... because I realize I've got a lot riding on the fight. Even if it looks like this is a sure win for me, I wonder "are his friends going to jump through that gate?" And if I lose, my nice fancy pvp ship goes poof. All gone.

Yeah fortunatly for you this is a game and very fortunatly for your kind you're safe behind your screen. At least until you anger the wrong person who actually tracks you and comes for you. this has happened before altough in Asia but still possible. The guy asked for it and misbehaving even if it's a game it is still bad. Lots of people spend hours and hours in game play and there is nothing worse than to have people ruin the game or scam you because you showed good faith.

Unfortunatly a lot of people get exploited, scammed and tricked on the net even I have been scammed several times in EVE didn't make me feel oh it's just a game no biggie.. since this is a subscription game you actually pay for it and when someone scams you in EVE it's the same as they steal your real money.

This does not only apply to EVE but most of the internet is high risk to end up with people who is likely to steal your money.

So let me get this right then, you are saying that people who play pirates in eve deserve to be hunted down in real life? And you are lecturing me about the type of person I am? I think you just made my argument for me with this one.

And you're right, it is a subscription game. A game that, if you play eve, you know the rules too. Its also a game whose subscription you can cancel at any time. Its not as if eve is the only MMO in existence. AGAIN, to paraphrase an EVE developer, if you want to pay-to-play a game where you log into happen fun time la-la land then don't play eve. The developer in question directs people who do want to play happy fun time la-la land to hello kitty online. I wouldn't go that far, having worked in the video game industry for awhile there are a LOT of great pve and pvp optional games out there already besides hello kitty. My guess is you're playing one now.

Man, I'm away from MMORPG.com for two days, and this thread comes back to life. It's like some sort of recurring zombie thread nightmare! How do you kill that which has no life?

@ funnylumpy:

You are getting dangerously close to personal threats and insults there. I suggest you tone down your rhetoric a bit before it gets you banned. Personally, I really don't care. You don't like the game, please, don't let us keep you from not playing it at all.

@ others:

Honestly, some of these anti-EVE posters are starting to sound like PADD (Parents Against Dungeons& Dragons) cardholders. The amount of argumentative rhetoric without any supportable argument points is really staggering. No matter how much the community responds with rational, well-thought and above all, sane arguments, we are shouted down by "No! I read this so it must be so! This is why EVE sucks!" -level of conversation. Arguing on the Internet truly does qualify one for a place in Special Olympics.

I'm waiting for the first "Ban EVE Online for causing rape trauma and emotional distress"-thread that starts a political petition in the USA (where else) to ban EVE-Online boxes (long since discontinued) from being sold on stores where minors are admitted to. And Jack Thompson will make a motion in front of the Supreme Court to shut down EVE-Online servers in the USA (current amount of EVE servers: 0) because they train children to become ruthless corporate executive assassins.

Would be on par for the course.

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And Jack Thompson will make a motion in front of the Supreme Court to shut down EVE-Online servers in the USA (current amount of EVE servers: 0) because they train children to become ruthless corporate executive assassins.

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That would be incredibly awesome. Subs would skyrocket.

Funny,

A couple more things I just wanted to add to our conversation. After my response to your last rant filled with hatred, anger, and grief directed at me and eve online players, I noticed how quiet it got in here. Funny.

Second, you want links. If you go to MMOGCHARTS.COM you'll find the following information: http://www.mmogchart.com/Chart7.html

This shows eve-online in overall 7th place in total MMO market share. Eve surpasses games like EQ, EQ2, Lord of the Rings, SWG, D&D online, etc, etc, etc. This chart is accurate up until April of this year.

Also if you were to pick up the latest copy of Beckett's Massive Online Gamer they mention that eve-online's total metric for subs is above 200,000. What is more, Beckett's lists CCP's (the parent company of EVE) CEO, Hilmar Petursson, as the 4th most important name in the MMO industry.

Cheers