General Discussion

In her final report coming out of the Indie MMOR Developers Conference, Laura Genender talks to Bruce Woodcock, better known as "Sir Bruce" of the interesting and sometimes controversial traffic-tracking site MMOGChart.com.

Last week at IMGDC I sat down with Bruce Woodcock, MMOG Analyst, and the man behind MMOGChart.com. For those of you who haven’t visited MMOGChart.com, Bruce’s idea and actions have become six years of tracking MMO populations.

It all started in 2002, when Bruce was browsing a forum and a random, interesting post caught his eye. An Ultima (or perhaps ex-Ultima) player posted a story about UO numbers declining based on Ultima press release numbers vs. EverQuest press release numbers.

Read the whole article here.

What a joke!

The industry DOES NOT take any notice of mmogchart.com and neither do most gamers.

Last year, we had Dana giving a half-arsed promotion of Bruces work of fiction - this year, Laura has a go. Pathetic.

As for all these unique visitors that are claimed, that's small change. A 'closed doors' website I host boasts far greater figures, and all you can see there is.......nothing.

I have only a very small amount of respect for mmorpg.com left (I used to rate it highest) and yet the 'alliance' between this website and Bruces bullshit astounds me.

I only come around here out of morbid curiosity nowadays, and the occasional informative post by someone not affiliated with mmorpg.com makes me smile, because that's where the REAL stories are.

Jon/Craig, this isn't aimed at you in any way (you're all this place has going for it nowadays) but please mmorpg.com, sort yourselves out.

70% of statistics are made up 94% of the time.

I think MMOGChart is a good tool to get information on a basic comparitive level. If it is true that Bruce does indeed recieve numbers and tips directly from game devs is a huge bonus to the credibility of the site.

I'm glad he keeps it updated and running, it's an interesting indicator of the health and prosperiety of a title.

In a world where most companies don't publically release their numbers, it's good to have something to fall back on for relatively accurate information.

Keep up the good work.

Do I believe it's 100% accurate? Of course not. Very few do and they shouldn't.

But, like I said, it's a good general indicator of information on a basic comparitive level.

Originally posted by darwa

What a joke!

The industry DOES NOT take any notice of mmogchart.com and neither do most gamers.

Last year, we had Dana giving a half-arsed promotion of Bruces work of fiction - this year, Laura has a go. Pathetic.

As for all these unique visitors that are claimed, that's small change. A 'closed doors' website I host boasts far greater figures, and all you can see there is.......nothing.

I have only a very small amount of respect for mmorpg.com left (I used to rate it highest) and yet the 'alliance' between this website and Bruces bullshit astounds me.

I only come around here out of morbid curiosity nowadays, and the occasional informative post by someone not affiliated with mmorpg.com makes me smile, because that's where the REAL stories are.

Jon/Craig, this isn't aimed at you in any way (you're all this place has going for it nowadays) but please mmorpg.com, sort yourselves out.

Whether you agree with him or you don't. Whether you figure his numbers are accurate or you don't, MMOGChart is a part of the industry. The article is meant to inform, and not to pass judgements one way or the other.

Honestly, I don't envy anyone trying to put those numbers together. For some companies, it's something that they want to get out. For other companies it's either something that they can't legally divulge or that they don't want to divulge.

As to whether the industry takes notice of it... I think that you might be surprised. I approved this article as a part of the coverage from the Indie MMO Conference for a reason. If an indie site is even trying to uncover the mysteries of subscriber numbers its worth at least talking about.

Originally posted by Stradden

 

Originally posted by darwa

What a joke!

The industry DOES NOT take any notice of mmogchart.com and neither do most gamers.

Last year, we had Dana giving a half-arsed promotion of Bruces work of fiction - this year, Laura has a go. Pathetic.

As for all these unique visitors that are claimed, that's small change. A 'closed doors' website I host boasts far greater figures, and all you can see there is.......nothing.

I have only a very small amount of respect for mmorpg.com left (I used to rate it highest) and yet the 'alliance' between this website and Bruces bullshit astounds me.

I only come around here out of morbid curiosity nowadays, and the occasional informative post by someone not affiliated with mmorpg.com makes me smile, because that's where the REAL stories are.

Jon/Craig, this isn't aimed at you in any way (you're all this place has going for it nowadays) but please mmorpg.com, sort yourselves out.

Wow... such hostility.

 

Whether you agree with him or you don't. Whether you figure his numbers are accurate or you don't, MMOGChart is a part of the industry. The article is meant to inform, and not to pass judgements one way or the other.

Honestly, I don't envy anyone trying to put those numbers together. For some companies, it's something that they want to get out. For other companies it's either something that they can't legally divulge or that they don't want to divulge.

As to whether the industry takes notice of it... I think that you might be surprised. I approved this article as a part of the coverage from the Indie MMO Conference for a reason. If an indie site is even trying to uncover the mysteries of subscriber numbers its worth at least talking about.

The fact that anytime we wish to be informed about actual numbers, companies will "hide" behind so much crap. Case in point...the idiotic and very stupid ..."4 Million characters created" debacle pushed out by Turbine...Then they state they are the 2nd largest MMO...which we saw over time keep getting * after * as they had to "define" that statement. I totally lost respect for that company, and according to Bruce's numbers, it also seems that they are NOT #2 anymore..(well, in a chart sense...Turbine as a game maker is #2 in a "different" way)

No, I am glad that someone is posting this info, and what is most important is if publications start using the data provided, then companies may think twice about "hiding" those numbers and be more open to provide real "facts" as they may look pretty bad on that chart compared to real world numbers...

Thanks Bruce!

Nice article and thanks for the insight and thank you Sir Bruce for providing the charts all these years!  Keep them coming!

Anyone who says a game has so many subscribers because a friend of a friend of a friends' gardner said so ( a.k.a. "inside sources which shall not be named" ) and thinks their data is worth more than the collective 0s' and 1s' used to type it out is fooling themselves, and wasting our time.

Originally posted by Stradden

 

Originally posted by darwa

What a joke!

Wow... such hostility.

 

Whether you agree with him or you don't. Whether you figure his numbers are accurate or you don't, MMOGChart is a part of the industry. The article is meant to inform, and not to pass judgements one way or the other.

As to whether the industry takes notice of it... I think that you might be surprised.

1 - Hostility brought on by the lack of impartiality MMORPG.com shows these days

2 - MMOGChart is NOT part of the industry - don't talk rubbish

3 - Actually Jon, I think YOU would be surprised. Not everyone that visits this website is 'only' a player.

Anyway, I've said my piece. See you same time next year.....

Originally posted by Stradden

 

 

The article is meant to inform, and not to pass judgements one way or the other.

Honestly I could care less about the numbers in games.  I have a hard time understanding so many peoples' obsession with them as well.  If I find a game enjoyable and fun to play, that's enough for me - I don't worry about whether someone else I've never met, know nothing about, and probably will never meet in my life, cares for the game. /shrug

Who really cares how many people are playing certain games? 

As long as there's enough people around to group with and converse with, does it really matter who's #1 or #300? Besides... most of the numbers are just estimates anyway.

While I