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Citadel of Sorcery

Citadel of Sorcery 

General Discussion  » What input does MMO magic want to see?

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69 posts found
  bigups43

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/14/05
Posts: 12

6/29/08 11:44:03 AM#61
Originally posted by Jatar  

Mike470 is correct, partly we wanted to see if there was much interest in a dynamic world game that is primarily quest based.  The sheer quantity of emails we have received supporting this idea is encouraging.   It seems there are a LOT of players wanting to break out of the old mold and try something new.  Our hard work has not been in vain. 

 

However, there are many areas of our game that could benefit from additional discussion.  One of these would be player Abilities.  Although we have the player Abilities system designed, it is in no way written in stone at this juncture.  Here are just a couple  issues we have to face:

1) We are allowing players to seek any new Ability they want.  This gives players the freedom to plan ahead and create the character of their choice.  The issue: will this be too confusing or difficult for the casual player?  If the answer is yes, in what ways could we do this, yet make it easy for casual players to understand and enjoy?

2) Once they have an Ability, we are allowing player to improve these Abilities with both study and practice, without cap.   The issue: Eventuall god like characters that unbalance the game.  In what ways should we limit the growth of players (if at all)?

 

We already have solutions for these problems, but it might be interesting to hear from players  and see their solutions or alternate options. 

Another completely different area worth discussing is death.  We are currently planning some penalties for death.  However, we are also planning on offering players more than one way of paying those penalties.  Rather than explain our exact plans, we would love to hear people weigh in on the idea of 'free' death vs. death penalties, and how sever they think penalties (if any)  should be to make the game intersting, without making it annoying.

 

I think that allowing players to custom tailor classes is a great idea. I like the idea I have read on the CoS website that circumvents casual players from getting overwhelmed,   by implementing a university system, where players can go to get help on planning  class, and then adhereing to that plan.

Allowing players to build skills without end, is a bad idea. There has to be some skill or level cap for sure because - as stated - there WILL be uber godlike players and what not.

Death should not be without penalty, and I would be in favour of corpse runs, but then again I am ex-EQ so thats my preference haha. I feel having a death penalty actually puts emphasis and value on time spent in the game, as opposed to nonchalance at ones death.

  Jatar

Novice Member

Joined: 9/16/07
Posts: 329

Citadel of Sorcery dev team member

6/29/08 12:10:27 PM#62
Originally posted by bigups43

...Allowing players to build skills without end, is a bad idea. There has to be some skill or level cap for sure because - as stated - there WILL be uber godlike players and what not.

 

Perhaps, but putting a 'cap' on things is annoying as well.  Players want to keep improving their character.  We're considering a system of diminishing gains.  This means there is no reachable cap on improving an Ability, but the higher the player improves the Ability the less the gain at the next advancement.  Therefore they can keep improving an Ability, but getting it to reach 'God like' power is a nearly impossible achievement.

They would be better off getting new Abilities where the gains were greater for their hard earned 'study' tokens, but players are not precluded from advancing their current Abilities if that's their desire.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

  TdogSkal

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/11/06
Posts: 1259

Do not fear death, Death will come a knocking anytime it wants.

6/29/08 1:45:58 PM#63
Originally posted by Jatar
Originally posted by bigups43

...Allowing players to build skills without end, is a bad idea. There has to be some skill or level cap for sure because - as stated - there WILL be uber godlike players and what not.

 

Perhaps, but putting a 'cap' on things is annoying as well.  Players want to keep improving their character.  We're considering a system of diminishing gains.  This means there is no reachable cap on improving an Ability, but the higher the player improves the Ability the less the gain at the next advancement.  Therefore they can keep improving an Ability, but getting it to reach 'God like' power is a nearly impossible achievement.

They would be better off getting new Abilities where the gains were greater for their hard earned 'study' tokens, but players are not precluded from advancing their current Abilities if that's their desire.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?


 

Sounds like a nice system.  The only ting is you need to make sure that their is content for the core gamer.  The guy or gal that spends all the free time on "Leveling" or improving their charater.  If they have no "cap" then they will need content that will still be a challage to them.  The player should never feel "God Like" when doing adventures.  Most games use Raids to combat this and some high level group content.  EQ1 put in the AA system which was a great idea, it allowed players to customize their class even more while still grinding on content that was challaging in a group setting.  CoS will need to do the same thing.  Allow the core players to still fell challaged while allow them to have no limit on the customization of a class.

I love the idea of endless abilities but their needs to be content to support that. 

 

Sooner or Later

  mike470

General Correspondent

Joined: 2/11/08
Posts: 2429

"We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand" - Randy Pausch

6/29/08 3:06:19 PM#64
Originally posted by TdogSkal
Originally posted by Jatar
Originally posted by bigups43

...Allowing players to build skills without end, is a bad idea. There has to be some skill or level cap for sure because - as stated - there WILL be uber godlike players and what not.

 

Perhaps, but putting a 'cap' on things is annoying as well.  Players want to keep improving their character.  We're considering a system of diminishing gains.  This means there is no reachable cap on improving an Ability, but the higher the player improves the Ability the less the gain at the next advancement.  Therefore they can keep improving an Ability, but getting it to reach 'God like' power is a nearly impossible achievement.

They would be better off getting new Abilities where the gains were greater for their hard earned 'study' tokens, but players are not precluded from advancing their current Abilities if that's their desire.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?


 

Sounds like a nice system.  The only ting is you need to make sure that their is content for the core gamer.  The guy or gal that spends all the free time on "Leveling" or improving their charater.  If they have no "cap" then they will need content that will still be a challage to them.  The player should never feel "God Like" when doing adventures.  Most games use Raids to combat this and some high level group content.  EQ1 put in the AA system which was a great idea, it allowed players to customize their class even more while still grinding on content that was challaging in a group setting.  CoS will need to do the same thing.  Allow the core players to still fell challaged while allow them to have no limit on the customization of a class.

I love the idea of endless abilities but their needs to be content to support that. 

 


 

/agree.

It is important to have content to fill in.. Since there is no end game, since there is no cap, then there should be content for each level.

I remember speaking about this in another post, and I stated that there must be content to fill in the levels.  But I then recieved around four replies saying "That is impossible" or "That would take too long" and they are mostly correct.  I would think that it is a huge challenge to actually have content from each level to 1-1000+.  Now, while I'm sure that will take long, people will end up getting there.

I am guessing that for things like quests, your quests kind of level up with you.  But, with things like herblore, tracking, etc., how does CoS plan on having endless content to fill in the levels?  I believe that each X amount of levels should have quests, as well as the ability to unlock new abilities as your level gets higher.

Like you said, I would love endless abilities, to train on and on and be filled with new rewards as I reach higher levels.  But my question is, how does CoS plan on handling this?  Is it really possible to have endless content?
 

.....to add on:

I kind of like how games like RuneScape handled this.  Now, the way they handled these abilities was rather poor IMO, and it was just a huge grind to reach the levels.  But I do like how with each couple of levels, in each skill, there were several things to unlock.  Like, say, if you reached 60 herblore you would achieve thee ability to create a super strength potion.  Things like that can fill in the content.

Not only new potions, but new herbs, new quests for the skill, new obstacles, etc.  (if we're talking about herblore here). 

Now, if each several levels can do this, then I full heartedly agree that there should be no level cap.  BUT, it is important that the skills do not involve too much grinding, like RuneScape's skills were.

__________________________________________________
In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08 - Rest In Peace; you will not be forgotten

  Jatar

Novice Member

Joined: 9/16/07
Posts: 329

Citadel of Sorcery dev team member

6/29/08 10:54:36 PM#65

Content isn't really an issue in our system since each quest is tailored to the players on the quest.  (you don't go on the exact same quests as anyone else, it's your story, we make it right for you).

As for 'god like' characters, that's not really feasible in our system of Ability advancement.  Sure, you can work toward perfection, we will allow you to constantly work further toward that goal, but you can never actually achieve perfection.  Such is true in life, and in CoS. 

Example: In real life It's easy to run a six minute mile, and not that hard to get to a five minute mile, but as you get faster and faster gains become smaller and smaller.  By the time you break the four minute mile shaving off another 1/10th of a second might take you months of hard work.  Then, could you shave off another tenth?  Sure you could, it's POSSIBLE, improbable, yes, but not impossible.  There is no limit to how fast you can run the mile, but each gain gets harder and harder, but technically, there is no 'cap'.  This is the system of Abilities in CoS, there IS no cap, but gains become harder and harder to achieve, but players, like people, need the chance that they could still get better.

  mike470

General Correspondent

Joined: 2/11/08
Posts: 2429

"We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand" - Randy Pausch

6/30/08 10:27:35 AM#66
Originally posted by Jatar

Content isn't really an issue in our system since each quest is tailored to the players on the quest.  (you don't go on the exact same quests as anyone else, it's your story, we make it right for you).


 

I understood and agreed with the under post, I just wanted to point this out.

When I spoke about content, I made the assumption that quests continue to stay my level.  But, what I do not understand, is how side skills will be leveled.   Things like, for example, herblore, tracking, etc.  You see, I do not know much of the ability system, I do not know if it attributes to your overall level or is just a side skill.

Example:  If I have 193 tracking, will that effect my overall level (like in Oblivion) or is it just a side skill that does not effect my level whatsoever (like in RuneScape).

The point of my post was that there has to be content for side skills as well.

__________________________________________________
In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08 - Rest In Peace; you will not be forgotten

  Jatar

Novice Member

Joined: 9/16/07
Posts: 329

Citadel of Sorcery dev team member

6/30/08 1:24:47 PM#67
Originally posted by mike470

I understood and agreed with the under post, I just wanted to point this out.

When I spoke about content, I made the assumption that quests continue to stay my level.  But, what I do not understand, is how side skills will be leveled.   Things like, for example, herblore, tracking, etc.  You see, I do not know much of the ability system, I do not know if it attributes to your overall level or is just a side skill.

Example:  If I have 193 tracking, will that effect my overall level (like in Oblivion) or is it just a side skill that does not effect my level whatsoever (like in RuneScape).

The point of my post was that there has to be content for side skills as well.

We don't write content for Abilities.  Nor does Oblivioin or RuneScape's systems match ours in any similar way.  It's really very simple, you are on quests, you have Abilities, you use the ones that are useful during that quest.  There are no useless Abilities, nor any that are needed at all times.  We don't write quests for an Ability, we just have quests and you decide which ones to use. 

I think you guys are making this more complex than it needs to be.  Look, if I have a tracking Ability and there is a monster that I could track... then I can use that ability.  If I don't have tracking at that moment, I'll do something else.  Quests aren't linear, everyone with ANY set of Abilities can finish the quest.  You use what you have, and later, if you decide you might like to add another Ability you can go learn that whenever you wish.

I know this doesn't answer your questions about how our Ability system works, because we haven't released all the information on that yet.   But... we have explained that you can learn what you want.  So... if you learn to swim, then you can swim across the moat and go in that secret entrance... and if you don't know how to swim, then you'll nave to use a boat, or the draw bridge or launch yourself over the wall with a catapult   :)  The point is, use what Abilities you have, but we don't write content for Abilities, we just write quests and let you figure out how you want to tackle the hurdles.

  mike470

General Correspondent

Joined: 2/11/08
Posts: 2429

"We cannot change the cards we are dealt, just how we play the hand" - Randy Pausch

6/30/08 3:57:27 PM#68

Understood.  I look forward to seeing more information about the ability system.

__________________________________________________
In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08 - Rest In Peace; you will not be forgotten

  Crowmage

Novice Member

Joined: 1/31/10
Posts: 1

1/31/10 5:27:10 AM#69

So here are my suggestions to death penalty and guilds:

 

Death penalty as an xp reduction is bad IMO so I prefer games when there is no penalty at all. However seeing that it is a problem not to have any penalty because it doesn't stop the so called zerg I think it is better to have something like a time penalty. What I mean: for example if a character dies, he goes to the underworld / afterworld (now I don't have any idea how it exists in CoS or if it exists at all but it is not something not too hard to implement). It can be a very confined area with a path that leads back to the mortal world. If you want to revive, you have to go back that path defeating the guarding monsters along the way. Or you can choose to be revived after a certain amount of time.

This wouldnt reduce your xp, in fact killing those beasts if you choose to run through that path gains you xp so what you lose is time only.

Regarding guilds: I would like to see the ability to buy monopolies from the state (or the sorceress?). These can be monopolies on different articles of food, magic weapons, cloth etc. If your guild has a monopoly on a certain type of item, it recieves the tax from all the merchants who sell these items. These monopolies would provide a good amount of gold which would help you develop your guld hall and you can buy mercenaries for it or whatever you can spend your guild money on. Of course these monopolies aren't cheap to buy, they will require a lot of money. Only one guild could have a monopoly on one type of item. If the guilds challenge each other in battle they can aquire the other guild's monopolies so it would give a goal to fight for in guild wars.

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