If they want to put the focus a LITTLE on these adds.

Maybe they could add a mini monster.  A mob which is always your level.  Kinda like a freakshow faction.  These guys vandalize ads.  But they always drop an SO.  You also work on the "worning out" the ads concept.  The idea is to blend the ads in the surrounding.  Usually ads try to get your attention, not here, it is reverse, they don't really want it...the player is playing, don't want him to slip from that mindset, subliminal works better than harassment.

While you would be hunting for these guys, for the SO boost at level 10-40, you would invariably see some ads and be in a positive mind setting, knowing SOs are about to drop.  It doesn't have to be an uber loot, just something good at early levels...and some badges.  There would be many reasons to keep the ads FAR from the endgame, the mindset of the players been the first reason.

Originally posted by mlambert890

Wow... some people just want to be terminally unhappy and disgruntled.  It never ceases to amaze me the level of angst, bitterness and outright anger (not to mention suspicion and distrust) there is pervasely running through *gaming* forums.  GAMING.  As in a recreational activity that is a pure luxury OPTION in your life.

Some of you people really are emotionally disturbed.  And it is perfectly valid to make this judgement based solely on what you post here.  Internet postings are more than enough to identify a chronically unhappy and obsessive personality.

When a company decides to test the waters with an OPT-IN system of ad supported revenue and your reaction is resentment, rage and deep seeded suspicion, it is time to step AWAY from the keyboard.  When you find yourself saying things like "ALL OF THESE DAMN IDIOT MMO DEVS!!!!" you are TOO EMOTIONALLY INVESTED in GAMING.  Step AWAY from the keyboard.

Do you people who react this way HONESTLY not see how abnormal it is?  If you DESPISE the games and their developers DONT play them!  Its as if these companies were preventing you from going home to see your family or something.  They produce a product that you do NOT have to buy, they arent your mother and father who owe you some kind of legacy.

All of this furor over ads and yet I bet so many of you SWOON over Google.  After all, Google is the DARLING of the millenials.  VERY odd that the conspiracy obsessed generation is in LOVE with an ad agency.

You are correct.  Still, sometimes I smile to see some of these people get the panties in a bunch.

Originally posted by SpectralHunt

Ever since NCSoft took over the game completely, we are slowly starting to see more micropayment (wedding pack anyone?) and alternate revenue streams.  Makes me wonder if the game is losing subs and therefore not as profitable as NCSoft thought it would be.

At any rate, it's an optional function but...

I can't help but think this is a slippery slope.  I can't help but think NCSoft is just experimenting on how much the playerbase is willing to accept.  Before NCSoft took over, the devs said there would be no in-game advertising but now there will be.  I expect to see more micropayment options like the wedding pack in the near future which were generally free before.

I don't like the trend.

 

The wedding pack is optional.  To date, any micro-transaction items have eventually been available for free.  If you want to bemoan about not having a tux or tiara, so be it.  I certainly wasn't interested in it and as a result don't have it. ... Yet.

Originally posted by Phyluxia

Originally posted by Guintu

 

Originally posted by Sylvanus

 

Originally posted by Guintu

 

But then we're just hoping the money is going to be spent to make the game better.  Look at our government and all the propositions we have every year.  How much money actually gets spent on things that are promised instead of a nicer hourse or car for the fat cats?  What are they going to do give a $5 a month raise to people and the rest will go to the CEO of Ncsoft?  Plus just because you give someone more money doesn't make them more creative, unless they have people threatening to leave the company unless they get a raise.  What are they going to do with the extra money they make?  Give raises?  Hire more people?  Build a nicer lounge?  Buy Rock Band so people can play it when their not working? 

 

The questions they should be asking to see if this is going to actually help is:

1.  How many people will actually keep the ads on?

2.  If we made a F2P server with ads how many of the P2P people would move to F2P?  I would think it would be about 1-3% because most people would pay to not have ads in a game.

3.  How many new players would they get if they made a F2P server with ads (I think this is the big question)?   I think the game population would double if not triple. 

4.  When Champions comes out (and if its good) how many people will leave COH/COV?

You're dizzying yourself with questions.  You have a simple choice if you're a subscriber.  Ads on or off.  Make your choice.  If you find you don't care for the decisions made down the road, you don't have to remain a subscriber.  While it might be a fun mental exercise, chasing your tail with possibilities you can't answer is pointless.  The only way you'll be able to find out it through time and patience.

 

So, until then... Game on! 

X-Play had a conversation about ingame advertising today and Morgan Webb said that if their is ads in a game the gamer should get something for having to look at them.  I agree.  We pay for cable tv and on most stations we still have ads, movie prices go up and their playing ads before the movie even starts, plus more and more movie and tv shows are using product placement.  We're so use to paying for watching ads that now their are people who are letting this happen in games.  We're paying for the game and they hope that we keep the ads on.  I'll turn them off thank you.  If they give me something to leave the ads on then I'll turn them on.

 

Even free games like 2moons let you turn off the ads, but if you leave them on you get double expeience.  The whole idea is give the gamer something, say thank you for playing the game and leaving the ads on.  Thank you for upping my pay check so I can buy a BMW 500 series instead of the 300 series.  Thank you for giviing me more money so I can send my kid to USC instead of Csun.  Don't just say here are ads, you can turn them off, but if you leave them on we'll make more money.

So re-investing all the money made back into the game to deliver you a better gaming experience is not something for you?

If I were a developer I would think if I'm going to have ads in the game, I'd want to give something to the people that are willing to keep them on, not just a thank you for letting us make more money.  I think a way to do it would be to have a google ad revenu model.   If you put ads from google on your website the more people that click on the ad the more money you make.  So the way to do the ads would be to make a free server (also have a pay server with no ads) and make it so the more people who play the game, the more money is made.  The ad company would be in place of google, the billboard ads would take the place of the google banner ads, and how many people play the game would take the place of how many clicks an ad gets. This way the game is making money from the people paying a monthly fee and they're also makeing money from the ads, its win win.

If this really galls all the naysayers as much as their hystrionics would lead us to beleive, then they really only have one choice...unsubscribe.  That's IF they even play the game, which I'd wager most of the complainers don't.   Why do I say that's their only course of action? (besides bloviating on a web forum)  Because the company has said they're going to do it, they've made their decision.  And as consumers that's our only real recouse, to buy or not to buy.  The rest is just so many 1's and 0's scattered about the internet.

NCSoft is a company.  Companies exsist to make a profit, like it or not, that's why they exsist.  They don't exsist to pander to our every whim and you have NO rights unless you are somehow damaged or incur a loss through negligence of the company.  Companies are going to do what it takes to remain profitable, and the addition of  'advertising' is what NCSoft has come up with to continue providing it's playerbase with the same (or better ) level of service that they've been providing without raising subscription fees or charging for content updates.  It's really quie surprizing that they've left it as an option that can be turned off.  If I were looking to place advertisments for my product in a game like this, no way I'd be paying the company if I knew my ads were 'optional'.  It has been mentioned earlier in this thread that product placement in video games is nothing new, everything from the soundtracks to the background graphics have been ad laden since at least the release of the first Tony Hawk skating game if not before.  And, as mentioned before, these game companies get paid to place these products yet it hasn't brought down the prices of the games one cent.  I bet the people complaining about NCSoft's decision still buy those games though.

Most of what I see is just the typical anti-coporate sentiment that is pervasive in much of the youth of the world.  One thing to remember though, without all those eeeeeviiill corporations you wouldn't have all that stuff you want because it wouldn't exsist.

Originally posted by Kryogenic

 

Originally posted by Deathstrike2

The way some people act about in game ads, I wonder how they're even able to watch television or drive down a main street in town.  They're just ads, and they don't bite. 

What I'd like to see is for the billboards and other in game ads (pop machines, etc.) to be destructible so we could destroy them.  After a few minutes, they could reappear.  Now that would be cool, and it would also catch the attention of the target audience. 

Anywho, more money = good for the game.

 

On a side note...     The ADS ARE COMING!!!  RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!!! 

It's not a question of being subjected to ads. It's being subjected to ads in a game with a monthly subscription fee.

 

They want to add "optional advertising", well then they need to make an optional payment plan to go with the adds.

Sure I'll turn on some ads and be spammed with Power Drink and McDonlads ads, but it's taking a slightly corrupt concept, like paying to play every month, and adding some extra smarmy super sauce to it.

There are some great articles on Gamespot and Gamespy with some industry insight as to how some professionals feel about the fact that with the increase of in-game advertizing, the prices of the games haven't gone down.

CoH is showing it's age and I'm willing to bet that they aren't going to add anything major to the game. This is a ploy to get some add revenue to fund the company. Mark my words, there won't be any major additions to the game. Sure they'll port over power sets that work for different ATs and maybe throw in one or two sets that have been getting developed for awhile, now, but don't be foolish... it's not gonna suddenly breath new life into an old game.

But as long as we have blind little fanbois out there that are more than willing to bend over and take one in the rear, companies will continue to do these kinds of things.

Not quite sure how I feel about this, but really don't think I'll mind too much.  The setting for this mmo is modern cities, they already have in-game fake billboards strewn about the zones, so I don't think I'll really mind if these billboards are used for real relevant companies.  I'd feel differently if I was running through the Barrens in WoW and ran smack into a McDonald's sign, but I can't say that I'll have a fit if CoX utilizes existing items in game to make a bit more money.  It's a business.

However, I would probably instantly cancel if, for instance, the zone loading screens were utilized for advertising, or the character creation screens were ringed with shoe ads, or they plastered the sides of all the ships in IP with energy drink banners.  That would be intrusive.

Originally posted by Sovrath

The more I think about this the more I think it's a slippery slope and also a bit of "testing the waters" by NC.

Because, think about it...

Any money that NC makes will of course go to its games. Of course they say that all money from this campaign will go to CoX but there's nothing stopping them from also using some of that money for other purposes.

So the crux of it is "allow the ingame advertising and we will get more money - We just choose, at this time to use it for CoX".

Then if enough players say "yes" (because in the end they are not going to be getting "money off" of their subscription to allow it. They are merely giving NC permission to make more money for their game) NC can then ascertain whether or not players will allow in game marketing when they are not getting a free sub or money off.

It's a bit cynical but I think it's true.

I hesitate to say it but it does smack of truth, along the same vein... I wonder how long until they start offering "incentives" for playing with ads on?

And yes, I have unsubscribed... it doesn't stop me from grabbing a ring-side seat and a bucket of popcorn.

P.S. I wonder what technical issues might arise from this? I mean I am reasonably sure no one cared what billboards I was or was not watching when I played so I doubt the mechanic is in place already(read: has to be implemented). My money is on lagzilla with them monitoring whether ads are on or off(seems kind of doubtful that will be all, marketing has a hard time working like that as they need to know who is buying what), so the question really is whether it is snoozing(paragon city-champion-peak hours) or on the march ala Rikti Invasion pre-patch?

As a player with all available Veteran awards and head of one of the leading villain groups, I'm going to say that, overall, I welcome this largely because of their pledge to use the dollars to expand their development efforts. I protect my eyeball minutes considerably more zealously than the average person with pop-up and banner blockers on my browser and no broadcast or cable television, but this doesn't seem nearly that bad.

Live advertisements on billboards are really not a major difference.  I occasionally browse the fictional entertaining ones now while superjumping past the skyscrapers, and they're a mildly entertaining piece of eye candy.  If the advertisers maintain the eye candy level of art, then it'll actually be a net plus because it'll mean I'm not staring at the same boring billboard every time I jump past that third building between the ferry and the monorail.  Who cares if it's something I might actually be able to buy.

If some don't maintain that level of eye candy then they're loosing out, and we get one more thing to gripe about in our weekly SG meetings.  If you're familiar with the way social interaction works, this becomes a binder for the SG, so it's also a net plus.

The big win is the ability to disable it as a simple game option, as opposed to a complex "click here to visit the web site, read the three page disclaimer, and enter your email address in order to opt out".  This means that the players will be able to vote regarding how acceptable and "in-your-face" the advertising is.  If it's unacceptably intrusive then they'll immediately lose eyeballs - and revenue.  This will keep it to an acceptable level of intrusiveness, and maybe even push them to ensure that the ads are of appropriate eye-candy quality.

If they're smart, they'll eventually allow you to customize the kind of advertisement you'd like to see.  If you would rather see lingerie instead of cars, you can check those buttons.  They may even decide to make deals with the ultra-annoying influence peddlers to sell them billboard space in exchange for promises to stop spamming.

Again, in general I think this is a good thing, and the opt-out promise ensures that it won't be a bad thing.

It comes down to the level of intrusion and game-breaking immersion.

As many have said, by default you have the option of disabling the ads so I don't see the point of crying doom.  Considering that the ads won't be spammed at you constantly as part of your user interface is a plus.  Considering that the billboards are fairly sporadic and fairly incidental to where you're travelling in game, that's a plus.  Considering that the game is thematically a modern world versus medieval society, it really doesn't break immersion which is a plus.  Considering that NCNC has final say on the ad content and design, that's a plus.  Considering they at least promise to reinvest the money into development is a plus.

Based on all of the above, if they can double up on revenues, I'm for it because I see the value of the game -- 14.99/month for all the time I spend in the game is worth it.  For now it can't hurt and only promises to make my favorite mmo better so I'm all for it. 

Honestly, I see all of this as a good thing in the long run for several reasons:

1. The ads are optional. No one has to see them if they don't want to. This is good, because NCSoft isn't forcing the issue. Yet, anyhow.

2. There are already places in the game where the ads could realistically go, and it wouldn't break any sort of immersion for me. After playing the game for so long (I've been in CoH/V since closed beta, and have kept an active account the entire time) I've gotten to where I don't even pay attention to the billboards and banners in the game. Whether they're advertising Crey or Coca-Cola won't matter to me, since I don't even look at them anymore.

3. The world in CoH/V can realistically support in-game ads in general. It's an alternate Earth with its own version of history, but it's still Earth. Blurring the lines between real and fake with the ads really won't be that big of a deal.

4. According to the article, the ad revenue will go towards doubling the current development team and getting content out faster. Both of those things work for me. More people working on the game = content out at a faster pace. And with the Cryptic-directed storylines almost at an end (since Cryptic had only planned up to Issue 12 before NCSoft bought the game outright), a larger dev team would mean that NCSoft could get their own content planned, developed and out the door faster. This is good for the playerbase.

So far, I'm not worried by this decision. I'll be keeping an eye on things as they develop, but for now, there's no cause for alarm on my part. I'll wait and see how it all goes. Who knows? It could end up as a real boon for the game in the long run.

Originally posted by SpectralHunt

Ever since NCSoft took over the game completely, we are slowly starting to see more micropayment (wedding pack anyone?) and alternate revenue streams.  Makes me wonder if the game is losing subs and therefore not as profitable as NCSoft thought it would be.

At any rate, it's an optional function but...

I can't help but think this is a slippery slope.  I can't help but think NCSoft is just experimenting on how much the playerbase is willing to accept.  Before NCSoft took over, the devs said there would be no in-game advertising but now there will be.  I expect to see more micropayment options like the wedding pack in the near future which were generally free before.

I don't like the trend.

 

Considering the number of people on the forums that were volunteering to subsidize SexyJay's costume work via optional game packs before the acquisition, I have a hard time lumping the wedding pack into "the trend".

Double Fusion, a well known maker of spyware.  GG CoX.

And for those who like ads, how do you feel about spam?  After all, spam is jut ads, right?

Originally posted by OSF8759

Double Fusion, a well known maker of spyware.  GG CoX.

And for those who like ads, how do you feel about spam?  After all, spam is jut ads, right?

The ads going into CoH/V are optional, not required viewing. Spam is also optional. You can block it and delete it, or otherwise never look at it at all. Do I open any of the spam I get in my Yahoo! mailbox? Of course not. Why? Because I *choose* not to do so.

Same goes for these ads in the game. No one is being forced to look at the ads, like they would be if they were playing a console sports game. Players have a choice, and, just like with spam, they can opt out. That's why I don't see a cause for alarm just yet. NCSoft isn't forcing the ads on anyone. Don't want to see them? Turn them off. Problem solved.

I am willing to bet almost everyone of the naysayers goes to concerts or sporting events. Watch racing? The cars are covered with ads, and ads line the racetracks. Watch football? What do you see along the sidelines? But hey! Didn't you PAY for those tickets? Gee, imagine that.. you got charged to see that concert, but had to watch that flashing sign board before the concert and during intermission! The nerve of those promoters....

And as someone already pointed out, most people use Google. Want to talk about spyware, and datamining? Perhaps some think Google really loves them enough to spend all that money on servers to house several gigs of their emails for the heck of it?

Advertising is a fact of life. Everyone has something to sell. Whether they are putting billboards along the interstate, stuffing your mailbox, or spamming you online, everyone wants a piece of your paycheck.

At least NC Soft is giving us the option to CHOOSE. In real life, I can't turn the billboards on the highway off. I can't make the signs plastered all over the arena, or around the stadium go away.

I am actually looking forward to a change in the billboards in CoH. They've been the same for many years. Does it really matter to me that someone is paying to display a real ad on them? Not a bit. Just seeing something different will be a change for the better.

If the devs need  the extra cash to improve the game, so be it.

As for those whining about the wedding pack, did you buy it? Then why whine? I personally think selling add-ons makes great sense. Let the people who want the changes pay the bill for them. It didn't take me long to fork over that ten bucks. And when there were problems I got an immediate, polite response, and a fast fix. That was worth the ten bucks. What's ten bucks? A meal at McDonalds? Two lattes at the coffee shop, that are gone in fifteen minutes?

It amazes me that people will often take the time complain about things they have the ability to completely ignore....

In the end the entire reason for make Games is to make money. Without a profit motive there would be very few games and probably none worth playing. Profits come from many different places and many different ways. Ads are simply another way for the company to make some profit and thus lower the cost of playing the game to you. Much the same way shows on the TV networks can be paid for by the commercials they air during the shows. You can choose to pay 10-15 dollars a month and get no advertising on channels like HBO or you can choose to pay nothing and get advertising on NBC etc. If the ads work out in COH then there is a very big likelyhood that you will either see subscription prices drop in order to attract larger crowds thus increasing ad revenue or see much larger/better game updates content updates to draw larger crowds to increase ad revenue or some combination of the above as in enable ads and play for free/disable ads and pay $15 a month.

I personally dont have any problems with advertising as long as its good advertising. Good advertising can be entertaining in its own right such as a lot of the superbowl commercials.

As long as it stays optional i don't have a problem.  However i think that if they are going to get revenues from ads they should lower the monthly fee or give players an options to play the game for free with ads forced on, like they did in Anarchy Online.  

I find their reason a bit cheesy when they say they are going to re-invest the money in the game.  COH/V is a succesful game already, i think the player community should get some kind of direct benefit from turning the ads on in the game.

Originally posted by Aguitha

COH/V is a succesful game already, i think the player community should get some kind of direct benefit from turning the ads on in the game.

Doubling the development team and getting content out faster isn't a direct benefit?

I mean, sure, a lower sub price is always a good thing, but let's not pretend that players aren't getting anything at all for these ads going in. The Cryptic-directed content is almost at an end, so anything that gets NCSoft to bring in more manpower and get new stuff out for players is a good thing.

Originally posted by Lidane

 

Originally posted by Aguitha

COH/V is a succesful game already, i think the player community should get some kind of direct benefit from turning the ads on in the game.

 

Doubling the development team and getting content out faster isn't a direct benefit?

I mean, sure, a lower sub price is always a good thing, but let's not pretend that players aren't getting anything at all for these ads going in. The Cryptic-directed content is almost at an end, so anything that gets NCSoft to bring in more manpower and get new stuff out for players is a good thing.

other than "a hero equals three minions" emmert, who from cryptic didn't join the ncsoft team?

It's fairly easy to see what happened. NCsoft lost big time money due to believing in the myth of Richard Garriott, feeding him millions to make a game which is basically a financial disaster. Now, they've lost the people behind one of their still viable franchises, CoX.

Of course they're going to do whatever they can to recoup money wherever they can. NCsoft is trying to stop the money pit from digging any deeper.