Age of Conan

I think we're looking at the same thing from a different angle.

The game is going to fail if the basic gameplay is not in place, that's a given.

I'm questioning the effect of high end raiding or high end PvP absence at launch, yes. But if the game is not fun in a basic level, the people that matter wont stick around for the end game content.

The title of this thread poses an interesting question. "Should the game be delayed?" My answer is yes if they can't release the game in a fun, bug free state. No if all is left is the high end stuff. These can come a couple months down the line.

Please note that (I believe) it will hurt the game if they don't come at all. How much is unknown, but my guess is that they can't wait more than WAR's release date. I don't think they are competing with WoW. Noone can at this point take players away from WoW, unless they are bored and want to move on. And even then, there is both the M rating (which I don't personally believe that it coincides with maturity) and the steeper game machine requirements.

Originally posted by Xasapis

I think we're looking at the same thing from a different angle.

The game is going to fail if the basic gameplay is not in place, that's a given.

I'm questioning the effect of high end raiding or high end PvP absence at launch, yes. But if the game is not fun in a basic level, the people that matter wont stick around for the end game content.

 

The title of this thread poses an interesting question. "Should the game be delayed?" My answer is yes if they can't release the game in a fun, bug free state. No if all is left is the high end stuff. These can come a couple months down the line.

 

Please note that (I believe) it will hurt the game if they don't come at all. How much is unknown, but my guess is that they can't wait more than WAR's release date. I don't think they are competing with WoW. Noone can at this point take players away from WoW, unless they are bored and want to move on. And even then, there is both the M rating (which I don't personally believe that it coincides with maturity) and the steeper game machine requirements.

Yeah maybe we agree. But i do think funcom is after a piece of the wow pie. Why else design a game that is so strikingly similar? And I also belive the devs have stated that they are not trying to bring new people into mmo's but instead taking some of the existing ones, ie wow's.

Wow works and Funcom knows that. I belive Funcom is trying to make the transition as smooth as possible for a wow player into AoC. It basically has the same rules. The combat system is basically the same. Talents/feats. No death penalty. Same dungeons, same type of gear, same classes.

The playerbuilt cities and fight for world keeps is unique to AoC though. That and the collision detection.

I hope AoC is good. But when they copy (harsh yeah I know but that my impression) the most succesful mmo out there they better be friggin splendid at release or AoC will go down the Vanguard way... or if they are not unique at release they will go down the Lotro way (ie not as bad).

And the unique part is the player cities and siege pvp imo.

   Eventhough, I'd like to see a perfect launch with all the bells and whistles, which I never have and don't expect.   I think another delay, of that length(June), would hurt their first quarter profit.  It would still pick up through the mid-2nd quarter, from a later launch, but at a slower pace than it could've otherwise, by sticking to May. 

 So, I still think we get the game on the 20th, with any missing content that is currently planned, out by June-July.

EDIT--  Never, has Funcom stated that AoC was a WoW killer.  Why presume this, when the sys. requirements and the M-rating would automaticaly preclude it?  At best, it would be the tip of the spear in a serious decline in WoW and, again, if you claim that any MMO title was released perfectly, then you just weren't there.

 Don't forget that even CB testers don't see the newest of the new content, as it's refered to as 'in development', but it's tested by the dev's and most of the original, handpicked, Alpha team.

 Even after a launch the once beta servers, that are now test servers, only see stuff that has been already worked on for months.

 So really, who else but Funcom knows the real state of the game as of today?

Originally posted by Tordak

  

EDIT--  Never, has Funcom stated that AoC was a WoW killer.  Why presume this, when the sys. requirements and the M-rating would automaticaly preclude it?  At best, it would be the tip of the spear in a serious decline in WoW and, again, if you claim that any MMO title was released perfectly, then you just weren't there.

     
  ---

Oh if this was directed at my wow-ramblings I never ment wow-killer. I mean it as taking a couple of 100.000 players from players who have or are playing World of Warcraft. Not millions. Remember, wow is still growing by a couple of million subscribers/year. And if this is not Funcom's plan, why then make everything so similar to World of Warcraft? Funcom needs subscribers, the vast majority of AoC's future customers will have played WoW at some point in their lives. Thats what im saying.

And thats also why I say that AoC must have a smooth and succesful start. Otherwise not many will stay with it.

To  MoLoK_ :

The MMO gender at this point in time comes with a big entrance barrier in terms of investment and quality necessary to be marginally successful as far as a AAA goes. So, not many people in the business are willing to experiment and will rather use (or re-use if you like) old ideas that worked in the past. The best you and I can expect is an evolution of the currently available mechanics, with better graphics in a different setting.

That been said and having some experience behind me, there are some fundamental differences between AoC and WoW. I'm not trying to claim that AoC is full of innovations, but it's a mistake to claim that they copied WoW in any form. Other games, yes. WoW, no. Perhaps some of the features that WoW copied from others can be seen in AoC, but that's about it.

Combat system is nothing alike. Combat in WoW is divided between white damage (auto attack) and yellow damage (specials). There is no white damage in AoC. Unless you press some key, nothing happens. The difference this little detail makes just broadens the way the difference in which the two games play, combat wise. There is collision detection. There is active blocking. You can't pass through somebody to avoid a spell cast. Everyone can stealth around. The differences really are more than the similarities.

Talent/feats. Lets start by saying that you could say that feats are the equivalent of WoW's talents. However, you also have skills and skill points. I would agree that they could add more skills (for those on the know), but the current ones do add an extra flavour  to the talent trees. Back to the feats. Feats do not dictate how a character will play. For real this time. It doesn't matter which tree I select for healing, they both are viable. One is pro-active, the other is reactive. The output is the same. Then you have a feat tree that is shared among all archetypes. And you can get enough feat points to go down all the way in two feat trees.

About death penalty we know little at this point. Right now it's a stackable attributes debuff, that can be negated by going back to the point of death and reclaim your tombstone. The severity is light at the moment but nothing suggests that that won't change in retail or between different servers. You must also realise that the higher up you go in the levels, the more hostile territories become, so reclaiming a tombstone does become a real pain at some point.

Same dungeons ... well, I won't comment on that. It's too generic and suggests that all games that have dungeons copied WoW. Which is ridiculous.

Gear so far play little role both in PvP and PvE. The situation might change with crafted and raid gear available but going from 5% influence to 10% is not the same as 50% influence they have in WoW. Not by a long shot. So far the game does not seem to be gear oriented at all.

Same classes ... again proves little knowledge of AoC. WoW is all about the holy trinity. Tank, healer, dps. The only problem in AoC's case is that all classes are hybrids. All classes can do at least two things with a few covering all angles (arguably with limitations). Bottom line, AoC does put a twist in that mechanic as well. Whether people will like it or not remains to be seen.

Bottom line, in my opinion, this this the game that tries the least to imitate WoW. WoW is all about the common denominator. If they wanted to copy WoW as you claim, they would have dropped both the M rating and the system specs on the spot. Among other, more glaring things.

If all MMO's were delayed until they were ready to launch.. we wouldn't have had any MMO's to play yet....

ROFL

<--- Look at the list of games and check their forums. You wont find any forum without a WOW comparison. Well, except D&L maybe :D 

The game should not be released with ugly female avatars.  Even if they are topless.  I suppose we could put helmets over there heads...the equivalent of a brown paper bag.