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MMORPG Game Concepts  » Empire building MMORPG

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37 posts found
  Wickersham

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/19/06
Posts: 2359

 
OP  3/25/08 8:01:19 PM#1

Do you guys remember Age of Empires?

You'd develop your area based on the resources you gathered?  I think they could make it into a really good MMORPG:

A few players get together and place one house each.  After X number of player houses they get a towncenter.  After X number of players they get a blacksmith. So on and so on until they have built a major city.

Players can't be crafters - they need to attract trade NPCs to the town to craft for them and can upgrade those crafters by collecting plans and selling them or donating them to the trade NPCs.  A village elder (elected by the town players) should be placed in charge of each crafter and decide what specific items the crafter should sell.  A player can request a special item made if that player has the materials on them.

Players are the ones that gather the materials by placing mines, quarries, lumbermills, farms, and ranches.  You need to gather resources in order to build your buildings and keep the crafter NPCs happily crafting or they will leave your town.  Plans, patterns, schematics and basic materials can be sold between players but crafted items are all soul bound.

One building a town can have is a castle.  Once this is in place it means the town is willing to engage in PvP conflicts - players can take control of another player's town and must protect their own town.  A town can retake their own castle, pay a tribute, and/or take over the castle of the town that controls their castle.

What this game does is make community projects that each player can take part in.  It makes things personal without making it selfish.  It creates a place for almost every type of gamer.  Solo players can work towards the community goal without grouping.  Casual players can make the best of the time they have to play in and still benefit the town.  PvPers get meaningful PvP.  Achievers have a world to conquer.  They can all mix together and benefit each other on a larger scale.

"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"

  Plasuma!!!

Novice Member

Joined: 9/19/05
Posts: 1874

There's a formula for everything, even famous quotes.

3/26/08 1:56:02 AM#2

Sounds familiar, like an idea for "player-created cities" I jotted down a few years ago.

I thought of it while playing Black and White so it's more similar to that sort of game than Age of Empires, but it's quite a bit like yours.

Although I'd rather not waste your time writing it all out because the design is heavily based around lengthy and boring topics (like macro economics (trade, factors of it, etc.), religion, and politics).

Overall the idea failed; it was too complex and I couldn't think of a method to deliver it to players without running them through countless unintuitive steps that could take an hour to explain in a tutorial.

Right.

Anyway, I suggest to you: think more about the macro since you've got the micro covered. You already have people collecting resources, building things, taking over and defending towns... but what are the long-term benefits of doing any of it? What's the big picture?

If towns are just silly things players can crap out anywhere they please at any time, then they're not exactly a valuable resource to anybody.

  • Maybe if you build a town in a certain place, you get access to a rare resource required to build certain important things... right there it becomes a rich town from highly valuable export trading. It's PvP value would then increase and become a more profitable target for those who don't like the outrageous prices or are simply greedy.
  • Or if you build one between other towns and on a shore, it becomes a trading hub and an ally of the cities it connects. Even more important if people have to 'refuel' now and then in order to keep themselves working efficiently, as it would make traveling more convenient to have a pit stop.

Just ask yourself: "What's the point?" and come up with answers until you're satisfied.

  User Deleted
3/26/08 7:19:22 AM#3

games don't need to have a point players will find their own if you let them and there's stuff to do and affect. 

  robprins

Novice Member

Joined: 7/19/07
Posts: 16

3/26/08 7:26:39 AM#4

would it be something like www.societygame.com/

It`s worth looking at this game for ideas, dont think it has had much progress sadly so theres still a open spot ine market with this ;)

  Plasuma!!!

Novice Member

Joined: 9/19/05
Posts: 1874

There's a formula for everything, even famous quotes.

3/26/08 1:46:27 PM#5

 

Originally posted by paulscott

games don't need to have a point players will find their own if you let them and there's stuff to do and affect.

 

If the game doesn't support a player's goals, then what point is there?

Asking yourself "What's the point" is part of finding out what players could possibly want to achieve and designing the game around those possibilities.

Contrary to popular belief, there is no such commercially-available technology that allows realistic world simulation to accommodate what everyone wants to do in a video game. Even SPORE, the epitome of freedom and ease in player-created content cannot hope to allow players to do everything they want.

There's a reason that there is no such thing as 'the game of everything', it's because it's simply impossible (and would most likely not be fun).

Games have goals for the players to accomplish, and that's why people play them. If you want a digital sandbox that can do everything, why don't you just buy a copy of 3DS Max?

  Wickersham

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/19/06
Posts: 2359

 
OP  3/26/08 3:45:47 PM#6

How do we make a city distinct from it's neighbors and make them envious enough to strike out?

- Allow players to increase the skill of their crafters by giving them clothes with skill boosts that benefit their trade.  Possibly put it on a smaller level like one town has a crafter that makes a great blade and another makes a good hilt and a 3rd makes the end sword with higher durability.  So take the blade from one the hilt from the other to the 3rd and make your sword.

- allow players to set trade buffs within their towns boosting craftable item stats these buffs extend to the conquerers town also.

- Make some craftable items rare making a towns crafter unique.

- Make prestige items in the game that grant buffs to the townspeople and make them rare and plunderable.

- Make prestige items in the game that grant buffs to the townspeople and to the conquerors.

- make some town buffs that benefit players stackable so the more towns you control the higher bonus you get.

- have rare statues, garden art, trees, gardens, and shrubbery to beautify a town and make them plunderable.

- Grant special titles.

- Possibly allow players to abduct each others crafters and set them up in their own town.  So you would quest to get your crafter back.

- Make a cities colours, flags and guards armor unique looking so that when a town has been taken over it looks alien to the townspeople and familiar to the conquerers.

- A freshly conquered town cannot be recaptured for a given amount of time depending on the amount of activity the townspeople generate, the amount of resistance the enemy guards face (either in your town or for more points in your enemies town - so a raid on your enemies town may not be to conquer it but to work towards the freedom of your own city) and the amount of defense the town originally put up when it was defeated.

- Special "fluff" buildings can be built with each city conquered and destroyed when it is conquered - since it is fluff it won't really anger players too much.

We would also have to limit the amount of what is plunderable or we would get a compound loot effect.

Buff benefits, phallic symbols, tribal pride and glory are all the reasons a player needs to conquer another town.

 

The idea behind this game is collectivism - the group is greater than the individual.  You can have all systems of government under this school from anachy to totalitarian but you are limited with economy; from full blown communism to planned economy - stopping short of full capitalism.

I don't believe you can have true individualism in MMORPGs which not only limit people to a few generic classes or skill points, but also because of the time limit a person has to spend ingame.  I believe this is the reason most open world or sandbox MMORPGs fail.  When you are not online no one is looking after your interests and no one has a reason to help you unless they are bored with their own interests or are just really kind and helpful.

"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"

  phatpetey

Novice Member

Joined: 2/10/08
Posts: 319

"You''re wrong about drug use, when its not abuse ..."

3/28/08 1:01:29 PM#7

I have to admit it to you this sounds like a great plan, but your idea has some major downsides.

Like, what happens if an important house(blacksmith, tailor's house), is being placed by a player that's new to the game(= newb). He might screw up the whole town.

 And another question, you want PVP between cities. That's a great idea, but it's almost impossible to accomplish that. You will need a huge playerbase because I guess you want many towns in your virtual world.

And by the way I think not one developer is crazy enough to make a game like that the creation of that game will take ages.

 

GreetzZz

  Plasuma!!!

Novice Member

Joined: 9/19/05
Posts: 1874

There's a formula for everything, even famous quotes.

3/28/08 7:20:22 PM#8

Well petey, how do you know whether something is impossible or not?

Something as broad as a real-time world simulator is a given impossibility for the technology available to the public, but I don't see much wrong with Wickersham's concept as it is, especially not what you claim.

Before you go about shooting down design theories and nit-picking on budgets or minor things like one unexplained and untested rule, maybe you should clear your mind of negative assumptions before imposing superficial flaws on others' ideas, yeah?

Come now. Why won't city PvP work? Please explain that in more detail than "you need a big playerbase" because, let's face it, as long as there are at least two players you can have some sort of PvP. Having two players who own a bunch of buildings and fight each other over property is very much the same as "city vs. city", I think.

By what assumptions have you based your criticism?

I'm very curious... because nearly everyone here has some sort of imaginary perfect game that they compare everyone's concepts to for validity. What is your perfect game, phatpetey? Or better yet, how would you tweak Wickersham's idea to make it better than it is?

  Tertiary

Novice Member

Joined: 7/24/07
Posts: 53

4/02/08 12:43:10 AM#9

I think you should strengthen the empire building concept.  Right now it sounds like a regular MMO w/ an emphasis on city-building and PvP.  I am, of course, reading between the lines.  But, for the merchants to be useful they need to sell something useful... and since the players are not directly tradesmen if they are prone to city-conquering and expansionism then they are probably not going to spend their time creating trade-routes.  That means the merchants probably eventually develop things useful for soldiers/warriors/adventurerers...  this impression is furthered by the idea that the game will be PvP centric which is set in my mind by the fact that you didn't mention attracting NPC soldiers at all.

Essentially what I'm saying is: What I see so far from your idea already exists in an outdated form - Shadowbane.  It is currently being updated and released by a different company as Darkfall.

However!  I don't think that is really what you want.  If you want to create a true massively multiplayer online empire building simulation I think you need to solidify your concept and try to include as little 'adventuring' as possible to create a truly unique game.  That's just my opinion, though.


        Ideas:

  • Each of your cities is probably going to be 'owned' by one individual - Try to figure out why other people would want to join that city if they can't run it.  I know I always want to make my own city, and I know there are a lot of other people like me.  Your buff ideas are good, what about a 'allegience' system similiar to Asheron's Call?  What is going to encourage people to work together instead of just constantly making war?
  • How do individual players advance?  Is it based on how nice their house in the city is, or how much property they own?  How do they upgrade their home or gain more property?  (Note: You mentioned resource gathering, that's one good way.  ie. The 'owner' of the city directly exchanges 'coin' for goods.)  Or, do players have statistics/abilities/classes/etc. that they advance by engaging in conflict of some kind?  Or both?  Or something completely different?
  • You mentioned that at the beginning phase of a 'town/city' each player will build their own house there - how do you determine who 'owns' the city?  How do you determine who has a right to place a building in a location (to counter the noob placing a blacksmith problem)?  You mentioned communism and other economic models, what about governmental models?  Will there be a way to designate multiple 'owners', or a way for the 'owner' to be automatically chosen (ie. the richest, the most powerful warrior/wizard, or the person(s) who are elected)?
  • You mentioned communism and other economic models - Do you want this game to be primarilly economic?  Will there be trade routes/etc?  Will the economy be 'realistic'?  Perhaps, following the above concept of two different forms of character advancement, 'caravan guarding' can be another alternative for players who don't want to participate with the economy/politic arena and are bored with always bashing down other people's houses... protecting and assaulting caravans is also a good way to start honing your bash down other people's houses skills.
  • Will there be NPC towns?  What will there purpose be?  Will they have castles and therefor be assaultable at some point?  If there are not NPC towns, where do the players start?  If you only have 'newbie' towns... wtf is their excuse?  And, along those same lines, do you mind if the 'lore' is disjointed to make necessary things like 'newbie' towns available?
  • What would a person playing your game do first after making a character?  Would they go start chopping wood and build a house?  Would they start killing mobs for leet gear?  Where would they start?  The 'beginning' is going to set the tone for the rest of your game, I think.  Most 'sandbox' type games are that way - Shadowbane focused on killing things in the newbie area... and, thus, a lot of the political setting the creators wanted went unseen as a lot of the player base just kept on the same way.


Anyways, that oughta give you a good start.  I think it's a great idea and I'd love to play a game like that... But, to be frank, I don't know how marketable it is.  On the one hand you're marketing an empire building sim in MMO format that a lot of people are going to be hesitant to try... on the other hand you're marketing a normal MMORPG w/ PvP and Siege-Fighting and calling it a empire building sim thereby pissing the people who thought it was an empire building sim off.

Keep us apprised, it looks like I'm not the only one interested in this!  ;)

 

  User Deleted
4/02/08 1:12:31 PM#10

WurmOnline has no point; has instant turnoffs like being made in JAVA, first person view only, slow advancement, advancement that is grind if you play it like a normal MMO, and it's indy(and plays like it).

Garners a well above average player count(indy) and even passes popular and running MUDs.  In the end there are only a handfull of purposes that are the wild server only(home is more populated to boot) Most of which are extremely longterm.   You know what enough people play and it's player base is growing with updates, plenty of others that want to play it but won't due to one or two issues.

people will find there own purpose if you give them control. 

  Thunderhead

Novice Member

Joined: 6/25/07
Posts: 104

This Quote made you laugh!

4/06/08 7:53:05 AM#11

Interresting ideas, i love them

how will we fit in the Multiplayer parts, as that is the main part of an MMO

making its like a big Guild that kingdom u have and recruit them to lead squards of NpCs ?

awesome, all religion and political stuff could be put in there, its a awesome big idea, and if perfected, i would stand in line a whole night to get me a copy ftw!

Would you play such a game, an Empire Building Game?

Hell yeah! My Empire will pwn urz!
Donno really -.-
It would depend on how good its done
I dont think i would buy such a game
(login to vote)
  Kez95

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 53

4/07/08 10:18:28 PM#12

I love the concept of player run cities with walls, gates, trainers and shops.  The problem that  I saw in Shadowbane is that you'd put a lot of time into building up your city with your friends and then some huge guild would just destroy it all. So in terms of membership, and making money off your MMORPG, if your entire guild just lost everything but the gear on their back, you can bet that some people, maybe even a ton of them would just quit, losing you lots of customers.

Also, those battles in Shadowbane were fun but massively laggy, so your engine would need to handle 500 people at once and so far, I don't know of any game that can do that well at all in one single battle.

Maybe if someone took your city you'd still keep it, but pay heavy taxes to the conqueror or something similar.  At some point, they could rebel and force the conquerors to fight now or lose their hold.  Also, the bigger a guild gets conquering others, the more random NPC attacks it would have, giving the conquered places a chance to rebel while the huge guild is busy with the sudden infestation of a thousand demons rampaging it's main castle, etc. 

There would need to be many mechanisms to help balance the game or the big guild who has a stranglehold on the best resources will ruin the game for most.  Spying, scouting, diplomacy, trading, and secret attacks would need to play a major part and a lot of people really enjoy doing that instead of just grinding mobs.

MMORPGs are virtual skinner boxes.

http://www.nickyee.com/eqt/skinner.html

  ironore

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/24/05
Posts: 957

Forging the Future

4/08/08 5:58:04 PM#13

This guy is on the right track.  

The way you design things is important in order to keep things fun and interesting.  It is poor design if a guild can come in and destroy a city in a short amount of time and it doesn't make much sense.  The infrastructure should be designed in such a way that it is more valuable to the conquerers in tact, thus making it possible to stage a reconquest in the future. 

Balance is very important in such a design.  The idea would be to make it so that one group couldn't really control everything without it becoming very difficult to maintain.  Ways to do this are to have distances mean something, and resources be widely spread about the game world.  This way no region could gain power infinitely. 

IronOre - Forging the Future

  Plasuma!!!

Novice Member

Joined: 9/19/05
Posts: 1874

There's a formula for everything, even famous quotes.

4/08/08 6:59:30 PM#14

 

Originally posted by paulscott

WurmOnline has no point; has instant turnoffs like being made in JAVA, first person view only, slow advancement, advancement that is grind if you play it like a normal MMO, and it's indy(and plays like it).

Garners a well above average player count(indy) and even passes popular and running MUDs.  In the end there are only a handfull of purposes that are the wild server only(home is more populated to boot) Most of which are extremely longterm.   You know what enough people play and it's player base is growing with updates, plenty of others that want to play it but won't due to one or two issues.

people will find there own purpose if you give them control.

 

I'm saying this: if you design a game without any goals in mind, what point is there anyway?

I have never played WurmOnline, so I really can't comment on their design. However, I can safely bet that the players are limited and directed in some ways, and that is what makes the game interesting for them.

People will indeed find their own purpose if you give them control... but control of everything? That's foolish.

In life, we have a purpose. That purpose is to survive and procreate, but how we go about doing that is up to us. If life had no purpose to begin with, and we controlled everything, then we'd be bored out of our minds (arguably, we wouldn't even exist). Through time, we mastered  the ultimate goal of species survival and had to create a sort of dogma to give ourselves more purpose than what we've already accomplished. Thus, religion has become many peoples' purpose in this game called life.

So, when you create a new universe, a game, you must give its inhabitants a purpose. Otherwise, it'll be just as boring as life.

  Impacatus

Novice Member

Joined: 5/04/06
Posts: 435

4/08/08 9:28:04 PM#15

 

Originally posted by Plasuma!!!

In life, we have a purpose. That purpose is to survive and procreate, but how we go about doing that is up to us. If life had no purpose to begin with, and we controlled everything, then we'd be bored out of our minds (arguably, we wouldn't even exist). Through time, we mastered  the ultimate goal of species survival and had to create a sort of dogma to give ourselves more purpose than what we've already accomplished. Thus, religion has become many peoples' purpose in this game called life.

So, when you create a new universe, a game, you must give its inhabitants a purpose. Otherwise, it'll be just as boring as life.


That idea is a human invention, and it's a perfect example of the phenomenon being discussed.  No one comes up to us at birth and tells us whoever has the most children wins.  Sure, we're afraid of death and we enjoy sex, but no one says we have to live our life for these things.  The idea is vaguely rooted in science, which is merely an observation of how nature tends to behave, not a value judgment.  Yet some people have taken this observation and imposed their own meaning on it.  Similarly, players will observe the game world and assign their own meaning to it.

 

 

I realize you're not making an extreme statement on the topic, and I'm not either.  I can see how as a designer you would want to think about things that players will want to do and implement features that help them.  But players left alone in a complex simulation WILL find something to do without being told or pushed to it.  A portion may need goals to be spelled out to them, but that doesn't mean there can't be more than one set of goals.  Different people can have different ideas of what the purpose of the game is, just as they do in life.  Besides, even having a vague goal like the "survive and reproduce" you mentioned or more likely in a game "accumulate wealth and power", with many ways of achieving them, would be an improvement over what we have now.

If you're building an mmorpg, or if you'd like to share ideas or talk about this industry, visit Multiplayer Worlds.

  Plasuma!!!

Novice Member

Joined: 9/19/05
Posts: 1874

There's a formula for everything, even famous quotes.

4/09/08 12:32:42 AM#16

 

Originally posted by Impacatus

 

 

Originally posted by Plasuma!!!

In life, we have a purpose. That purpose is to survive and procreate, but how we go about doing that is up to us. If life had no purpose to begin with, and we controlled everything, then we'd be bored out of our minds (arguably, we wouldn't even exist). Through time, we mastered  the ultimate goal of species survival and had to create a sort of dogma to give ourselves more purpose than what we've already accomplished. Thus, religion has become many peoples' purpose in this game called life.

So, when you create a new universe, a game, you must give its inhabitants a purpose. Otherwise, it'll be just as boring as life.

 

 

I realize you're not making an extreme statement on the topic, and I'm not either.  I can see how as a designer you would want to think about things that players will want to do and implement features that help them.  But players left alone in a complex simulation WILL find something to do without being told or pushed to it.  A portion may need goals to be spelled out to them, but that doesn't mean there can't be more than one set of goals.  Different people can have different ideas of what the purpose of the game is, just as they do in life.  Besides, even having a vague goal like the "survive and reproduce" you mentioned or more likely in a game "accumulate wealth and power", with many ways of achieving them, would be an improvement over what we have now.

 

Well games and life are different (pardon this obvious observation), as in life we can die and there are risks in everything we do. In games, there are no risks except perhaps loss of time investment.

The risk and fear of death and extinction is what drives us to survive and reproduce. Our goals are to escape death for as long as possible and prosper in life so that ourselves and our offspring can be ensured a less stressful survival.

But what do you have to fear and risk in games? Only time.

No risk is no fun, and having control over everything means there are very little or no risks at all. Some people do like the thought of being Superman with no Kryptonite around to hinder them; however others just prefer the challenge and goal of avoiding it and aspiring to eventually overcome it. Challenges and goals make for good entertainment.

So think of it in terms of challenges and goals. People who do not challenge themselves need goals and challenges planned out (which is a majority of people in this world) and even moreso in games where there is much less to risk and challenges seem less dire; but people who do challenge themselves constantly (even while gaming) are just fine with sandboxes because they find their own purpose if it's achievable.

I suppose it's just about which audience you want to attract, however I tend to lean towards a more profitable market, being those who prefer a great plethora of challenges and goals to aspire to rather than having to make their own. And while the sandbox types might be somewhat untapped as of yet, it doesn't mean that a game tailored around them is necessarily good fun for everyone.

  Impacatus

Novice Member

Joined: 5/04/06
Posts: 435

4/09/08 3:07:44 AM#17

 

Originally posted by Plasuma!!!

 

Well games and life are different (pardon this obvious observation), as in life we can die and there are risks in everything we do. In games, there are no risks except perhaps loss of time investment.

The risk and fear of death and extinction is what drives us to survive and reproduce. Our goals are to escape death for as long as possible and prosper in life so that ourselves and our offspring can be ensured a less stressful survival.

But what do you have to fear and risk in games? Only time.

No risk is no fun, and having control over everything means there are very little or no risks at all. Some people do like the thought of being Superman with no Kryptonite around to hinder them; however others just prefer the challenge and goal of avoiding it and aspiring to eventually overcome it. Challenges and goals make for good entertainment.

So think of it in terms of challenges and goals. People who do not challenge themselves need goals and challenges planned out (which is a majority of people in this world) and even moreso in games where there is much less to risk and challenges seem less dire; but people who do challenge themselves constantly (even while gaming) are just fine with sandboxes because they find their own purpose if it's achievable.

I suppose it's just about which audience you want to attract, however I tend to lean towards a more profitable market, being those who prefer a great plethora of challenges and goals to aspire to rather than having to make their own. And while the sandbox types might be somewhat untapped as of yet, it doesn't mean that a game tailored around them is necessarily good fun for everyone.


True enough.  I think a middle ground could be reached though, by either having many different possible paths to advancement or a vague long term goal that can be reached by many different means, perhaps more than one of these.  That doesn't mean it's possible to please everyone, of course. 

 

Although it's off topic, I'd still like to say that this kind of Darwinistic worldview is far from universal.  Throughout history there have been people who've taken a vows of celibacy or poverty, people who sought adventure (a more stressful survival), people who sacrificed their lives for others not related by blood, and so on.  If survival and procreation are the objective goals of life, then these people were losers of the game, yet many of them were probably very respected by their societies, and did not see themselves as such.  And the threat of extinction isn't generally on most people's minds most of the time.  As far as I know, that's not usually why people decide to raise children.  The worldview that says ensuring the survival of ones lineage is the purpose of life is but one of many people hold.  Not everyone believes it, or even acts as if it's true. 

I just think it's interesting you said earlier, "Through time, we mastered  the ultimate goal of species survival and had to create a sort of dogma to give ourselves more purpose than what we've already accomplished. Thus, religion has become many peoples' purpose in this game called life."  In my opinion, what you're talking about with species survival and natural selection is an example of this: a philosophy that provides a purpose to life.

On topic, I'd like to say the idea of player city centered gameplay intrigues me.  I have had a few ideas along these lines myself.  I was thinking that for balance and playability purposes, a conquered city would be forced to pay a fixed tribute/tax, but would remain otherwise autonomous.  This would give the occupier something for their efforts without making the game unplayable for the occupied. 

I think it would be interesting to have the ability to build wonders triggered by random events or something (eg An aging pharoah shows up in town and selects it as the site for his pyramid.  After a massive investment of time and resources by the community, they'll have a pyramid that provides certain unique benefits to the town.)  Wonders would be as rare as the events that trigger them, and this system would prevent the wealthiest city at any given time from hogging all of them. 

I also think that trying to bring other genres into the mmo market, such at RTS or city building in this case, is a good idea. 

If you're building an mmorpg, or if you'd like to share ideas or talk about this industry, visit Multiplayer Worlds.

  Fimbletoes

Novice Member

Joined: 9/21/07
Posts: 22

4/09/08 8:45:05 AM#18

Dark and Light touched on this idea, however they failed badly.

A Age of empires fully fledge 3D MMO would be brillant.

Add my two pence:

Use the epoch system,

Players start from prehistoric then advance all the way to space age. Instead of a persistant world players are playing in games which last a month or two. Once done restart again. You would be seeing empires rise and fall.

It Just Isn't Sony

  Tertiary

Novice Member

Joined: 7/24/07
Posts: 53

4/09/08 2:32:45 PM#19

Originally posted by Fimbletoes

Dark and Light touched on this idea, however they failed badly.

A Age of empires fully fledge 3D MMO would be brillant.

Add my two pence:

Use the epoch system,

Players start from prehistoric then advance all the way to space age. Instead of a persistant world players are playing in games which last a month or two. Once done restart again. You would be seeing empires rise and fall.

Games that last a month or two are not going to work for casual gamers... and, do you really want to be forced to spend 40+ hours per week in game just making sure you're not left behind in the mesozoic era while everyone else is in the space age?  A year or two would be better, in my opinion.

This world would stop being persistant, too.  Whatever time frame you use, eventually all the hard-work people put into building their cities is going to vanish.  I'd hate that.  If someone knocks down all my buildings... fine, that's PvP and I don't mind.  It gives value to the game experience when I prevent them from knocking them down....  But, when the server simply resets... Uck.

 

I just played through Wurm Online: It gives you a tutorial quest and then you are purely on your own.  You are encouraged to build a settlement... but, only because that is how WO makes money.  You could spend all your time leveling a mountain... literally.  And, even more open ended than Wurm...  has anyone mentioned Second Life?

Honestly, though, I've forgotten at this point why this was brought up...  This empire building game that OP has suggested is not free-form or open-ended.  The purpose is to build an empire.  Strategically take over resources, build cities/armies, and subjugate your neighbors to your will.

 

On that note, I think the idea to 'enslave' other people's town is a good one... But, the reason that other people's cities were leveled on Shadowbane was that everyone wanted their own city.  That was part of the fun of the game... to build your own city... all by yourself... with your friends help... but, all by yourself. ;)  By the ideas that have been thrown out for this idea so far it will be even more the case here.

But, this idea is for an EMPIRE building game!  Not a city building game...  Rather than letting the game mentality default to 'well, I should join an empire so they don't destroy my city,' why not give benefits to people for being subservient in an empire?  And, to ensure that the bigger portions of the empire don't just gobble people up and break down their cities, give them a bonus to having people in their empire.

I envision something similiar to Asheron's Call's monarchy system...  but, on an empire scale.

  Plasuma!!!

Novice Member

Joined: 9/19/05
Posts: 1874

There's a formula for everything, even famous quotes.

4/10/08 4:17:51 PM#20

 

Originally posted by Tertiary

 

Originally posted by Fimbletoes

Dark and Light touched on this idea, however they failed badly.

A Age of empires fully fledge 3D MMO would be brillant.

Add my two pence:

Use the epoch system,

Players start from prehistoric then advance all the way to space age. Instead of a persistant world players are playing in games which last a month or two. Once done restart again. You would be seeing empires rise and fall.

Honestly, though, I've forgotten at this point why this was brought up...  This empire building game that OP has suggested is not free-form or open-ended.  The purpose is to build an empire.  Strategically take over resources, build cities/armies, and subjugate your neighbors to your will.

 

I think it started with me saying something about designing goals for city building... ie: why would you do it for reasons other than "the heck of it"? If there is no other reason, it'd be kind of boring after a while.

I think paulscott came up with the point about players being able to find their own purposes if the world was made truly open-ended, and I argued that point.

Well think about it; so you *can* build cities, armies, and eventually rule an empire. What point is there beyond supremacy? Is there a value on each piece of property you conquer, are there limited resources or areas to acquire them? If you can build cities and armies from thin air and nothing has a value, that sort of defeats the purpose of anything.

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