General Discussion

There has been a recent rise in discussion about the topic of what the future of mmorpg's might hold. Mainly this discussion has focused on the console vs. desktop debate. Let's break this discussion down to the facts and try to keep bias out of it for the most part.

Let's begin with the major differences between consoles and computers. The most notable that comes to mind first being how customizable a computer is vs. a console. While with consoles you don't -have- to upgrade any parts (theoretically) to play any game released for it it also means that you -can't-. In other words; you are stuck with the hardware in your console. While certainly  computers almost require upgrades every (technically) six months, that's only if you want to stay cutting edge. To be completely frank if you spend roughly six to seven hundred dollars every couple of years to build a completely new computer you can stay pretty up to date on your system until the next generation of games hits. While  many people consider this to be a problem you can to also consider that consoles these days are upgraded to next gen what? Every five years or so? While you might be spending about two to three hundred dollars more to build a computer every four years, you can do an obscene amount more with your computer.

Moving away from technical aspects for a moment, let's consider the fundamental differences in player-bases. It should be fairly obvious to most anyone with have a brain that the mainstay of console gamers are mostly looking for:

-Easy to use control systems

-Easy to follow stories that still engage the user on a shallow level

-Not really having to think too much on strategies on how to do things

-Gamers that don't either have the attention span or time to spend more than an hour or two playing

These are just a few points, but are mainly hitting the mark of console gamers. Let's look at a few points of what exactly most rpg (mmorpg) gamers look for in their games.

-Discerning stories that allow the user to develop a character in a way of the user's choosing.

-Controls that can be changed and adapted in a huge way depending on what the user desires from a game.

-And with the advent of user-made add-ons with WoW and how wildly popular they are it's pretty apparent that gamers also like being able to control the output of data their game's give them. On that same note these gamers also clearly enjoy the ability to greatly alter their UI's in any way they choose to. Neither of which you can do on consoles currently in almost any fashion.

That hits the major points mmorpg gamers look for. Looking at these points it's painfully obvious why a console-oriented mmorpg would fail. Could a more open-code game be introduced to a console? Possibly, but the simple fact is I doubt most console OS's could support a highly variable game code. Not to mention the fact that in order to give consoles the adaptability that has propelled the computer gaming and mmorpg markets you would be simply churning out a....any guesses? That's right, a PC (or mac I suppose).

For these reasons I'm somewhat skeptical about Age of Conan. While I certainly like the innovative ideas that it will have the simple fact that it's also being made for the 360 gives rise to this question: How versatile will it really be?

I have played FFXI and can tell you from personal experience how constrictive (when I played it about a year ago) the control system felt. The interface was quite a bit harder to use because it was also made to be functional with a console controller. This is also part of the reason why the NGE killed SWG, the control system was so altered to try to conform to those for a game controller it turned people off. I, however, can't comment on AoC's control system having not tried it yet myself, but you have to wonder how Funcom decided to develop it's control interface.

Yes, both the ps3 and the 360 have keyboards and a mouse you can purchase to use with the console. What you have to realize is that many console gamers mainly play consoles -because- of how simple and easy the controls for controller-designed games are. Let me put it this way: How can you put all of the buttons to use for your macros (weapon switching, message+skill usage, skill parsing), skill hotkeys and other interface tool buttons on a controller? Put simply you can't, which will turn off console gamers from the get go. So then you have to try to convince mmorpg gamers that a console mmorpg is just as versatile as on pc, but not only that, you have to convince them to purchase extra accessories for their console that they already have for their computers, but just can't use them. In a nutshell it's impossible at this point unless said mmorpg developers also included major additions on the game discs to improve console OS's to be more open and changeable. Which, they won't because it would involve a lot more money not to mention they would have to get permission in the first place to even do that from the manufacturer.

So the question boils down to this: Will console mmorpgs overtake desk-top mmo's? My answer: Not in the near future. At a minimum not until the next generation of consoles, which again, as I have stated above if you make consoles as open and versatile as a computer all you're doing is making more computers. Keeping that in mind my prediction is that, in all likelihood, computers will etch out console gaming more and more as the gaming world progresses. As it stands console manufacturers are standing on the edge of console versatility bordering that of computers and if the trend continues the market might switch to just selling standardized computer towers...but oh wait.....they already do that. The only difference now is that consoles are generally cheaper than buying a computer, but if you can build legos then you can most certainly put together your own computer  (yes, putting together a computer is about as simple as simply plugging things in and you even get directions, just like legos) and save around 50% or more on cost.

To sum up: Console mmorpgs will never even rival the amount of user's computer mmorpgs has today or will have by the time many studios have said they plant to release console mmos.

The problem with your arguments is that you are focusing primarily on hardcore players.  You put so much emphasis on complex controls and customization, but a casual gamer will never, ever deal with that.

The console target audience is the casual gamer, not the hardcore players.  Hardcore players can stick with the PC version and be as complicated as they want to be.

A casual gamer might log on for a couple hours, whack some monsters, maybe voice chat with their buddy, run around a bit and that's it.  Most of them will probably spend 95% of the time solo.  Contrary to what you seem to think, many classes only require a handful of buttons to play.  There are games with complicated interfaces that work fine (i.e. Mass Effect) and I'm sure the developers are smart enough to figure out a reasonable setup.

Is it as user friendly as a mouse/keyboard?  No.  But if you just want a casual hour of mindless monster whacking, while sitting on your couch, voice chatting with buddies, etc, a console MMO could be perfect.

That's more or less my point. The simple fact of the matter is that a huge (70%+) portion of mmorpg gamers are at least more towards the hardcore side of gaming. My reasoning behind this being simple: What is one defining factor that mmorpgs have over almost any single-player (even with multiplayer aspects) game? The ability for a group of players (guild, clan, etc.) to compete and be recognized by a persistent community (your server) of fellow players. That means both on the PvE level (raids) and PvP level (sieges, random mass pvp, etc.). That and the fact that of the dozens of friends and family I have brought into the mmorpg world all of them have gotten really competative. I mean, the whole point of rpgs in general is the fact of near-continual character development (not RP-ing in any sense, just making your character more powerful).

I mean back before I first picked up my very first mmo, DaoC (back around when it first came out) I wasn't really a super hardcore gamer. I'm not saying -all- mmorpg players are hardcore, again, most of them just tend to lean that way. It's the competative edge that almost any gamer has that mmos exploit in a way no other genre of game really can. I most certainly know that many classes in many mmos can be decently played with just a few buttons, but even then I'm taken back to my 'not enough customization' argument.

Let's say that a console-only mmo is released, well the chances are you're going to cut out all hardcore mmo gamers (sorry to say, but they set the bar that the rest of that games community strives for and thus keep playing). Even then if you could theoretically draw every single console owner for your targeted console, let's say the 360 and the total number of owners that are not also hardcore mmo gamers is 6 million (just a random number). So you then have six million copies in retail sales and six million recurring monthly fees. Well, people aren't going to pay monthly for a game they aren't going to spend a moderate amount of time on (maybe 15-18 hours a week). If they do, more power to them, but I digress. Anyway, so then say it takes about a month or two at that weekly rate to hit the level cap. Well, if you have a full consumer base sale the chances are you have a fantastic game on your hands. What happens to all those people when they hit max level? Are all of them going to continue to just dink around? Probably not, but let's say one in four or so gets competetive to the point of becoming "hardcore" gamers. Well, you now have around 1.7 million players that want to customize their interface and controls more, but due to the restrictions of the console, can't. What do you think is going to happen? They're going to get frustrated and probably find a pc mmo that fulfills their desire for more versatility.

Similiarly, with my Age of Conan example, what happens to console AND PC releases? Are the PC gamers supposed to suffer a somewhat lacking interface because the developer had to dumb it down for console gamers?

With current console technology, you could have the same gameplay/story/customization/control schemes that a PC mmo would offer. Consoles today can use mouse and keyboard just as a PC can, they come with a storage device (hard drives) and graphics ability to rival current gen PC graphics. With the PS3 any USB keyboard/mouse will work so long as the game supports it. You could essentially port WoW, EQ2, Warhammer to the PS3 and have it play the same way. In the best interest of the player, console MMOs would be more acceptable because there wont be hardware conflicts, no need to upgrade to the newest bleeding edge CPU/GPU just to scrape by with 20fps. Todays consoles are PCs.

Sure, there are only like 17million 360s installed in households worldwide, or 10.5million PS3s, with PCs of some sort everywhere. And sure not every console gamer will play an MMO, but not every PC user does either.

Everything done in an MMO on PC can be done on a console. You will still have the same hardcore gamers playing the way they always have without any change. The only thing you probably wont see are MMOs that come out pushing the limits of hardware not yet thought of (ala EQ2 and making a game that brought cutting edge systems to thier knees).

Having MMOs on consoles will only do what WoW did for the genre; open it up to many more people.

Games like EQ:OA on PS2 really wasnt a success because the PS2 at the time was nowhere near the capabilities of a PC. But now console makers are aiming at the PC. They are trying to bridge the gap, and consoles are currently on par with even the most badass systems.

So I will have to disagree. I think Consoles are going to be part of the evolution of the genre.

people with consoles like to play in front of their tvs on their couches. I don't see them setting up desks to use M&K comfortably for hours at a time.

Originally posted by teiohFromSWG

people with consoles like to play in front of their tvs on their couches. I don't see them setting up desks to use M&K comfortably for hours at a time.

But they could always use a coffee table, TV tray, etc, kinda like what people who like using racing wheels for console games. And I am sure they would also include a standard gamepad control scheme as well.

Originally posted by fyerwall

With current console technology, you could have the same gameplay/story/customization/control schemes that a PC mmo would offer. Consoles today can use mouse and keyboard just as a PC can, they come with a storage device (hard drives) and graphics ability to rival current gen PC graphics. With the PS3 any USB keyboard/mouse will work so long as the game supports it. You could essentially port WoW, EQ2, Warhammer to the PS3 and have it play the same way. In the best interest of the player, console MMOs would be more acceptable because there wont be hardware conflicts, no need to upgrade to the newest bleeding edge CPU/GPU just to scrape by with 20fps. Todays consoles are PCs.

Sure, there are only like 17million 360s installed in households worldwide, or 10.5million PS3s, with PCs of some sort everywhere. And sure not every console gamer will play an MMO, but not every PC user does either.

Everything done in an MMO on PC can be done on a console. You will still have the same hardcore gamers playing the way they always have without any change. The only thing you probably wont see are MMOs that come out pushing the limits of hardware not yet thought of (ala EQ2 and making a game that brought cutting edge systems to thier knees).

Having MMOs on consoles will only do what WoW did for the genre; open it up to many more people.

Games like EQ:OA on PS2 really wasnt a success because the PS2 at the time was nowhere near the capabilities of a PC. But now console makers are aiming at the PC. They are trying to bridge the gap, and consoles are currently on par with even the most badass systems.

So I will have to disagree. I think Consoles are going to be part of the evolution of the genre.

What many, many people fail to realize about the success of WoW is the fact that it is so open. You CAN'T currently do kind of modding and add-on work that WoW has right now on a console. One of the main reasons for this is the fact that such mods and add-ons today are made work with and talk to the game code they're made for. I don't have a real firm grasp on what exactly console OS's do in terms of talking with games, but it's fair to say that it's fundamentally different considering no installation of a code-base is done. Which is all moot anyway, since in order for a large multitude of mods and add-ons to be made the way they are for almost any PC game including mmos to be matched would be to give the players developer tools for their consoles.

Put simply it can't be done. It would immediately become so insanely easy to just copy games directly onto your console's HD it would literally kill an ENTIRE market; video game rental companies.

As far as the latter part of your post goes, I already discussed the slowly shrinking gap between consoles and PC's. The fact is if console makers every completely bridge it guess what will happen? The video game rental market will crumble. There's a reason why game rental companies don't rent out PC games and that same reason would apply to all games if consoles ever got that far. I mean, why buy any game when you can just rent it for eight bucks, install it on your console then return it?

And because I apparantly have to repeat myself: There will never be a successful console-designed mmo with current console mentality. Console gamers don't have the attention span to deal with the complexities that draw the mmo community around and have caused it to grow. Vice versa, the average regular mmo player simply won't enjoy a console-designed mmo because of how dumbed down the entire game system will have to be.