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3/22/08 10:24:44 PM#41
yea cause hearing 50 "kids" screaming chuck norris jokes and 100 others calling each other noobsauce is really what i wanna see for almost every moment i play. 10 years ago i didn't care 1 way or another about instancing. But with the utterly immature 90% of the gaming populace playing now being in an instance is the only time i can even enjoy playing games. most games should be called MMONusreryGames. This at least lets people who actually want to experience the game and the story do so without people who's ONLY enjoyment is bothering every person they can find. |
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3/23/08 3:31:19 AM#42
I'm a little confused here. If the world is going to be 900 million square kilometers big, and this new quest system is truly adaptive and dynamic, then why is instancing necessary? If there's truly that much space, can't this magical quest system send everyone to a different place to do their grand epic style adventures? (or at least spread everyone sufficiently out and give diverse enough objectives to keep crowding and overlap from happening?) If NPC's come into the world and exist until they perma-die, would I, for example, ever need to enter an instance to deal with him for my quest? (presumably for the purpose of not having to share a spawn) If so, can't the magical quest system just make enough NPC's for every individual's needs so that I don't have to enter an instance? I mean, I'm assuming the same guy won't die twice anyway from what I've read, otherwise it wouldn't be very dynamic at all... When town's get attacked or raised to the ground, is that instanced too? I mean, if it's not, that's a pretty big scale event on its own, proving that you don't need an instance to make something more grand or cinematic... It just seems to me like the two concepts, a gigantic fully adaptive world, and an instanced world where people do things apart, are not necessary to each other. Having both seems like trying to design two completely separate games. Now I realize I don't have all the information here, and I'm sure you've shared all that you can at the moment... Perhaps there's something I'm missing? Is there some way that these things will work together that's actually better than just not having instancing? Again, why can't all that superb dynamic adaptive content just exist in the normal game world? 900 million km sq. man! That's the size of Earth! Even with a population the size of every WoW server, a world that size would be barren... And to boot, a quest system that (on the surface) sounds like a sentient AI lol... Surely it can handle putting everyone in the same world and give everyone somewhere different to go... Please enlighten us. |
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3/23/08 5:43:12 AM#43
This explains a little more. It sounds like they're using Instancing which could work to limit players who try to exploit the reactive game system they describe. It won't stop their exploitation but Instances would limit the damage to the shards rather than the whole world. And they're addressing issues of other MMORPGs like solo-ability and playing with different level characters. They seem to know what they want to do, but doing it is a whole different matter. I have to laugh when they made this comment: We knew we would take a lot of flack from a few people who feel it is necessary to tear down any developer who attempts to do something new. Since the art of the game is only at prototype level, we knew this would also take a lot of heat. However, there are also those who understand that we are doing our best to fight a system where new game design is discouraged as ‘too risky’ If they're afraid of flack, then they shouldn't be in the gaming industry lol And in making their noble claim about how they're fighting the Evil System by being Innovative, they neglect one simple fact. New game design IS RISKY BECAUSE MOST OF THE TIME IT FAILS. And we've seen those failures, time and time again. So until they can prove they're actually capable of pulling off all they claim and they're not just full of hot air, the community shouldn't expect anything much. When they have a working demo that they're showing off at conferences, then we can start being excited, but right now, it's way, way too soon.
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3/23/08 6:28:18 AM#44
The idea they are aiming at sounds fantastic in theory if it can be pulled off. Too early to pass any sort of judgement yet though, although many seem to be intent on doing so... At the end of the day its how it works in practice that will matter - be interesting to see how it turns out - hope it works :-) |
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3/23/08 6:45:48 AM#45
Although I normally go for PvP, this game sounds, although explicitly said that it only contains minor PvP, very interesting. One thing that bothers me is what they will do once one or both enemy factions are defeated, because either you don't even get a chance or they invent something for after that. The problems with the first one is that, in the end it could end either like WoW: Just searching for the best equipment; or like Guild Wars: fighting (maybe not PvP) again and again in battlefields. The problems with the second idea is, how are they going to invent new stuff and balance it, when they don't even know when exactly they are going to implant it. So I hope they find a way to solve this (And I hope they take all the time they need, I would actually even donate if it helps) |
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jaigaia
Novice Member
Joined: 1/04/08
if u are not on my side ur are my enemy ... that makes u a target |
3/23/08 8:29:34 AM#46
Originally posted by Jatar
Thanx for the outlook into what ur really thinking about or have already put in the game . After u replied i spent the last few days [busy weekend] finding some of ur threads where uve mentioned anything about this game as it really peaked my interests, thats when i found something about a newspaper , or Town Criers that were there to let know of the world around u. I was gonna say when i originally was puttin suggestions these two were at the top of my list but i thought id b flamed for such an idea cos so far well it just doesnt happen in most games. I also read about the questing with others , and he did say that questing with others does influence ur own personal life as well as theirs. Again all these concepts sound really good and i hope that u find someone [publisher] to back u. On the artwork thank u for not focusing all ur early attention to this .... to the neigh sayers if this engine is capable of all they claim u should be thankin them too , infact as they ve come forward now im sure theres alot of HUNGRY ARTIST out here this is ur chance into the professional world as level designers and more ... just a thought ... this also means they havent actually set graphical limitations yet to btw which is a good thing ... can we know a lil more on the terrain thing im really interested in this IN THE AIR thing .... is their a flying class , a way to fly , quests in the sky ? id like to add a few more suggestions but these arent so much about what id like to see in ur game 1. Publisher ... i know ur hungry to get one seated and i cant wait for the day we all read about it as an official announcemet . However now adays it also seems that so many are ready to be the next WoW and willing to do just about anything to get there . Including regular clones and companys that are willing to let the games fail so they can suck up the technology for their own interests . ... Im not saying NCsoft by far but when u lock in one, do think of a company like that as they are into trying new things and new ideas on breaking the mold on the MMO market ... GW success of 5 mill units sold is a perfect example cos when ANET tried it and succeeded ... it was believed it couldnt be done. They re goin in theyre own directions im sure but i was using them as an example of what kinda heart the publisher has to have ... 2. When U ask me to marry into ur game [ subscription fee] cos i kn u need ur money back and want to make more , just make sure that i dont regret marrying into it so i stay married to it ... unfortunately it doesnt come with a prenup but does come with the ability to divorce. As a gamer urself i believe u and ur team made this game with gamers in mind and its not just the game u want to play but the one u and everyone has always dreamed of. 3. Fantasy is fun and all but at same time it needs something new ... i really hope to see a cross somewhere between technology and the classic take on RPG style games so please keep this in mind as u build ur world. Swords Shields and mystic ability can only hold someone for so long. 4. I want u to deliver the game u want us to play , while takin the suggestions of the community and improvising and implementing this into making it a great game , my last suggestion is one that has happend all to often as of recent ... Dev teams turning def ears to their community ... please no matter who backs u dont allow them to take ur gaming sense away ... ur a gamer so u know how important this is to u ... cant please everyone i know but i think the big dogs at the top have sometimes forgotten we are what makes or breaks games. IMHO thats why WoW / GW continue to b where they are .... bc their teams dont forget ... ok ok as well as good financial backing i ll give them that . lol I wish u the best and looking forward to anything new and official on this game .... Hey if u need some quest writers ill give u some for free ... would need to know some backround and more in the game but heck just to say theyd be in game ... and when u do finally go live i d be able to say hey i made that quests lol.
"Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die." |
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3/23/08 11:27:35 AM#47
Originally posted by OzmodanInteresting point of view, however I think one thing that is a common mistake in perception of what MMO really is, is that people think massively means 100k players in a small area. Lets look at wikipedia's definition: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMO I think that pretty much erases your MMO disagreement. As for instancing, im on the fence for that. I believe its necessary for some parts of games and not others. Everquest taught me to hate not having an instance when I had to wait for days camping a monster with guilds. This day and age casual players which can easily be 80% or more of the players out there dont have that kind of time to wait. Instant satisfaction Is what drives games these days. And I am betting that the questing system will not grant so called "farming rights" as I doubt you will be able to repeatedly enter the same instance over and over to get an item or items. A simple fix to this is coding a flag that tells the server, player xx has this item or has recieved it already, and put a "timer" on it to avoid the player farming. Plus what can be done is to create a method that once you hit an instance, as you kill mobs in it, they cant respawn until the quest is completed, and instance closed not allowing itself to be redone by the same player.
Playing: Not much actively. |
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3/23/08 6:36:48 PM#48
Most of you are reaching conclusions on a game that DOES NOT EXIST!!! The game looks very good on paper and the developers are working on a truly REVOLUTIONARY game. I hope and wish this game gets out; let's wait a couple of years and we'll see. |
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3/23/08 8:07:22 PM#49
1. No FPS combat. 2. Why look at this game, it is dead. Darkfall here we come. 3.. Grow up developers, we are geting very tired. You think we accept this kind of bollocks ? |
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3/24/08 4:44:49 AM#50
Saorlan, no FPS combat? seriously, I think you're on the wrong forum, and I also don't think you understand the world these guys are creating. What I read suggests: 1.) The world is STORY. You play a character, not neccessarily a hero at all times - your story is developed around You, and what you've done. You will develop not just skills and stats, but a link to other PCs, NPCs, locations and events. As these linked characters and locations are affected, you'll be drawn back to them because they should be interesting to your story. I believe this will be where the instancing shines - as your story develops, and you make irreversible decisions, the STORY can branch slightly with instances for those who are aligned at that point in time, without negatively affecting minorities or allowing griefers to mess with the main plot you're really interested in. 2.) I can't believe people bother posting here with "graphics are poor", "been tried before and failed" etc. To me, the idea is the big winner. They have released an early interview, which is great as it shows us these ideas RPG fans have been looking for, are actually being worked on. What these same fans are after, is what is being developed; we're not neccessarily interested in those fancy graphics or PvP arenas. 3.) On PvP: I don't see it being limited by this description; rather, I see the Story-driven world as a new introduction to the PvP idea. Imagine again, your character in a town, where the town crier runs through announcing bandits have hit the neighbouring farms, where you and some friends get a good deal on weapon repairs through a friendly blacksmith you saved earlier. Now there is serious reason for you to rally a few people and go save the area. Now add to the scene that the bandits are actually PCs hired on another interacting story-line raiding for prisoners, and you have PvP combat which is entirely optional, but alot more important. Please don't post quick responses deriding these guys work. If they've kept it up for 5 years, with a live test-bed server for over 2, then they're fairly commited, AND able to get this game made. I salute them, and put my hand up for a job / beta position too :) Don |
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3/24/08 4:55:59 AM#51
Lol, I almost replied to Saorlan too, but you beat me to it. Basically: what a jerk. You know what? If these guys and gals can pull this off, then kudos to them, it sounds new and interesting, and anything new is a relief. And since when did everyone care about graphics so much? I'd rather have a good GAME, instead of good GRAPHICS. There are plenty of flashy crappy games out there. But I guess I still play Fallout, Planescape: Torment, Curse of Monkey Island etc. on occasion, heaven forbid!
Why? They're good games. The graphics compared to today are complete garbage for the most part, but if the game is the good, and the art/graphics/design at least FITS the game and aren't horrid(i.e. don't work at all), well then, you have a good game. Graphics should be the icing on the cake, not the cake itself. Would you rather have a bucket of icing or a cake without icing? Ok probably both, but that's not the point!
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daarco
Apprentice Member
Joined: 12/19/06
I have Darkfall now! |
3/24/08 5:51:11 AM#52
Originally posted by flaxalf
CoS sounds better and better. But this statement about forced grouping is the lamest thing i have ever heard! If you choose tp play a MMORPG, you choose to group with other people. Same if a go and play fotball, and then whine i have to play with a team. The dont play! |
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3/24/08 6:26:01 AM#53
Originally posted by Saorlan You should have read the posts in the beginning: Originally posted by Guillermo197 |
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sabutai22
Apprentice Member
Joined: 3/24/05
--Developers that create cookie-cut MMO''s deserve failure!-- |
3/24/08 11:08:22 AM#54
"Gaining skills is not random, nor are you handed one you do not like when you go up a level. " I hope that cyrptic line doesnt mean "Yet Another Level based poo-poo game" if so, then i pass!
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3/24/08 3:44:26 PM#55
Originally posted by Maragold
I agree with Ozmo.... the point he is trying to make is that the people should have the option to solo or group (via monster difficulty etc etc etc) but not though instancing.... and i agree... instancing is bad, it kills player interaction. In guild wars it was really hard to get to know people becuase it flung you into instances all the time. That and it really didnt have very many social aspect of it aside from actual guild fights, pickup parties, and guild chatter. Let me try to explain it a bit more simple... basically back when SWG was in its prime (pre-cu) player interaction was at its best... you could run into people messing with their harvestor, sit down at the trading post in dantooine and talk, talk with people in the cantina etc etc etc. There was a ton of social things to do. And this was totally non instanced. The problem with instancing is that it truely kills a good portion of player interaction... you dont run into people harvesting... you dont run across players that are about dead and you save them, posibly you sitting and having a talk and forming a friendship... you get my point. I think too many games these days are focusing on instanced content and i would have to say that they are shooting themselves in the foot. This is a mmorpg after all isnt it? Not a single player game? So why limit player interaction in that way? I have read both threads on this game and I have to say that its defiantely a step in the right direction and something many of us have been looking for since SWG pre-cu or whatever other sandbox game weve played and watched it die (due to wow). This game will have my full support if it actually gets off the ground. My only concern is player interaction and instancing... that may be the only factor that will change my mind on this game. Edit: Sorry... one more concern.. leveling.... i hope this isnt another class/level based game... but a tree skill based sandbox like SWG used to be, but more like oblivion. "Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria "The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci |
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3/24/08 4:08:29 PM#56
Originally posted by jaigaia All the red paragraphs are my responses and constructive feedback. I agree with most of it. Lol... I hope this game is true.. "Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria "The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci |
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3/24/08 4:12:12 PM#57
Originally posted by syllvenwood You dont understand.... if this game is truly dynamic like they say it is... it wont need instances... and that orc boss wont exist.. this isnt wow.. its a different type of game.. they said so with their quest paragraph... so not everybody will be doing raids on the exact same thing... So I see no need for instances if this game... and they shouldnt use them... "Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria "The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci |
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3/24/08 10:10:24 PM#58
Originally posted by Elikal Dittos!
The MMORPG came out of the pen-and-paper Dungeons and Dragons style RPG, which came out of Science Fiction and Fantasy books. This is the true root of the MMORPG, and much of the flavor has been lost in the translation to the computer medium. Many of you who should really be sticking to FPS and RTS type games anyway have no idea of what has been lost in the modern MMORPG; and that is the RPG. This is a major step to what the MMORPG was really intended to be about to begin with! I am excited, thrilled to hear the concepts expressed by the creators of this game, and hope very much they can pull it off! Will this game be for everyone? I don't think it was ever intended to be. This game will be for the RPG person. FPS players, RTS players, get someone to create an MMOFPS for you, or an MMORTS, or stick with playing the games that try to be everything for everyone - and end up diluting the flavor of the classes, characters, armor and weapons, and weakening the strengths and individual expressiveness of different players by catering to PvP balance above all else.
Have played: Everquest, Asheron's Call, Horizons, Everquest2, World of Warcraft, Lord of the Rings Online, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall |
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3/25/08 6:37:15 AM#59
This absolutely great!!! a mmo players wet dream come to life whats not to love about this. O sure theres the whole not living up to your promise thing but i live by the creedo dont judge lest you be judged and i reserve my judgement for the actual game its to early to throw out any accolades or critcism's as yet. I like the whole idea behind I will say. Gun toting shinobi anyone no class Rockon!!!! The world evolve's around me no more going back to quest giver to redo the quest (which i always felt guilt about felt like i was cheating) the idea that i can actually piss of npc's in the game as OOOO so many twist's to ur decision manking process. One day i wont be evil I can hehe next day im nice that's life dude can it be I for one hope and pray this game makes it and lives up to what the put out 1 thing tho i noticed they didnt mention much about how player dath would be handle. I wonder about that if i fail the quest and die will i have to start all over or will i be ressurected only to have to live with the shame of failure such as life as I know it lol. Well i wish you guys all the luck in the world and hope this game comes out the way you wont I wont play so hurry up. EyesBoggledWowEwwPraiseCoolAngry
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3/25/08 10:05:12 AM#60
Finally! I see an upcoming game that will take the place of Saga of Ryzom for me. No pre-made classes! You choose what skills you gain as you level up! Plus, you can play solo if you want, or group if you want! I hope the developers of this game pull it off. This game thus far sounds freakin' awesome! As for the whole instancing thing, I think that's ok, in small doses; if their world is as dynamic and huge as has been described, it may not be necessary, and I hope the developers limit its use to times when it is actually necessary. I've played games where, to complete a quest, you had to wait in line behind 30 other people camping the given NPC mob spawn, and, that, I'm not a big fan of. From what I've read, though, the devs are working to keep that from happening in their game, and instancing is one of the tools available to them. I think I would like to play a game where at least some of my character's actions have a real and noticable impact on the game world; being the hero every single day can get tiring, but every now and then, to be involved in some epic undertaking would be good. I will be watching for this game. I really hope the devs can pull it off. |
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