General Discussion

Saorlan, no FPS combat? seriously, I think you're on the wrong forum, and I also don't think you understand the world these guys are creating.

What I read suggests:

1.) The world is STORY. You play a character, not neccessarily a hero at all times - your story is developed around You, and what you've done. You will develop not just skills and stats, but a link to other PCs, NPCs, locations and events. As these linked characters and locations are affected, you'll be drawn back to them because they should be interesting to your story.

I believe this will be where the instancing shines - as your story develops, and you make irreversible decisions, the STORY can branch slightly with instances for those who are aligned at that point in time, without negatively affecting minorities or allowing griefers to mess with the main plot you're really interested in.

2.) I can't believe people bother posting here with "graphics are poor", "been tried before and failed" etc. To me, the idea is the big winner. They have released an early interview, which is great as it shows us these ideas RPG fans have been looking for, are actually being worked on. What these same fans are after, is what is being developed; we're not neccessarily interested in those fancy graphics or PvP arenas.

3.) On PvP: I don't see it being limited by this description; rather, I see the Story-driven world as a new introduction to the PvP idea. Imagine again, your character in a town, where the town crier runs through announcing bandits have hit the neighbouring farms, where you and some friends get a good deal on weapon repairs through a friendly blacksmith you saved earlier. Now there is serious reason for you to rally a few people and go save the area. Now add to the scene that the bandits are actually PCs hired on another interacting story-line raiding for prisoners, and you have PvP combat which is entirely optional, but alot more important.

Please don't post quick responses deriding these guys work. If they've kept it up for 5 years, with a live test-bed server for over 2, then they're fairly commited, AND able to get this game made. I salute them, and put my hand up for a job / beta position too :)

Don
have a great day

Lol, I almost replied to Saorlan too, but you beat me to it. Basically: what a jerk.

You know what? If these guys and gals can pull this off, then kudos to them, it sounds new and interesting, and anything new is a relief.

And since when did everyone care about graphics so much? I'd rather have a good GAME, instead of good GRAPHICS. There are plenty of flashy crappy games out there. But I guess I still play Fallout, Planescape: Torment, Curse of Monkey Island etc. on occasion, heaven forbid!

Why? They're good games. The graphics compared to today are complete garbage for the most part, but if the game is the good, and the art/graphics/design at least FITS the game and aren't horrid(i.e. don't work at all), well then, you have a good game.

Graphics should be the icing on the cake, not the cake itself. Would you rather have a bucket of icing or a cake without  icing?

Ok probably both, but that's not the point!

Originally posted by flaxalf

A MMO that doesn't force one to group.  My biggest problem with WoW is that it forces one to group.  I don't play WoW anymore because of that.  Outside of the dailies all that is left is raiding, for which I don't have the time . 

This game sounds like it will fit my play style and schedule.  I hope you can pull it off and not be forced by one of the game distribution companies to be more "WoW like".  If I wanted "WoW like I'd still be playing WoW.   I think that might of happened with Vanguard.

CoS sounds better and better.

But this statement about forced grouping is the lamest thing i have ever heard!

If you choose tp play a MMORPG, you choose to  group with other people. Same if a go and play fotball, and then whine i have to play with a team.  The dont play!

Originally posted by Saorlan

1. No  FPS combat.

2. Why look at this game, it is dead. Darkfall here we come.

3.. Grow up developers, we are geting very tired. You think we accept this kind of bollocks ?

Originally posted by Guillermo197

 

We choose to reveal the game to this extent and this early simply because we wanted to get input from the players. We knew we would take a lot of flack from a few people who feel it is necessary to tear down any developer who attempts to do something new. Since the art of the game is only at prototype level, we knew this would also take a lot of heat. However, there are also those who understand that we are doing our best to fight a system where new game design is discouraged as ‘too risky’ to fund. We’re doing this by investing our own time and funds to the project, and have for three years so far. However, the team members are committed to the ideals of this game, and are willing to work to make it a reality for those who would like to try something different in their MMO game. Please be patient and kind, and help us with constructive criticism rather than angry attacks. And remember the words of the Enchantress…

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Flaming a game that is still in early development is lame and stupid. You always have those people.

But there is also something called constructive critisism ;)

Problem is that many of us have seen so many statements from developers before about their new MMO being revolutionary and something new, who would stand out of the rest of the competition. And in the end only ending up in one big dissapointment, because they couldn't deliver on their promisses.

Vanguard: Saga of Heroes is a prime example of that! How many players got shafted by Sigil and ripped off $50,- is just unforgivable. And that still stings on many!

One thing that always plays a key role is "budget". Money investment is what desides what you can or cannot do. When you run out of money and thus time you will have to make choices as company. And usually it ends up in either scrapping a lot of promissed features or rush out a terrible bugged / flawed game.

All I hope for you guys is that you have enough money to support your claims and promisses and that you can deliver on all your claims.

Then I say: GO FOR IT!

Cheers

"Gaining skills is not random, nor are you handed one you do not like when you go up a level. "

I hope that cyrptic line doesnt mean "Yet Another Level based poo-poo game" if so, then i pass!

Originally posted by Maragold

 

Originally posted by aurick

 

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Originally posted by Ozmodan

 

Lately I have to wonder what is it about the 2nd "M" in MMORPG that developers don't get? Mutliplayer does not mean that complete solo play!
You know when you put in mostly solo play you satisfy the kids and turn off everyone else. Problem with kids is they have a very short attention span, hence most subscriptions last only a short time.
Without significant multiplayer features, games like this die on the vine very fast. I am suprised the people funding this have not pointed out that error to the developement team, seems to me you should always examine the problems encounted by previous games and attempt to alleviate them....not compound them.

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Respectfully, I have to disagree. I am 38 years old and play a lot of MMO's. My gaming friends are also in their 30's. We play a considerable amount together, but we also all have individual lives and commitments that prevent us from grouping. So we play grouped or solo depending upon the day.

DDO is a game that really focused heavily on grouping. If your argument held true, then DDO would be a phenomenally successful game. Yet despite having great graphics and compelling dungeon adventures, it's only a mediocre success at best. My friends and I stopped playing it because grouping was the only choice that we had, and when we couldn't group up we had no choice but to play something else. There just wasn't any solo content available in DDO with which to occupy our time until our friends came on.

If you have one game that focuses exclusively on group content and another that offers both options, where will you spend your monthly subscription fee? You'll naturally spend it where you can play whenever you want to. DDO learned this the hard way, and has slowly been introducing more solo content to the game.

As a mature player, I want BOTH kinds of play. I want compelling content that I can enjoy with friends, as well as equally compelling content that I can experience when those friends aren't available. The "join a big guild" argument just doesn't hold water, in part because of the fact that we're mature players. We have developed a core group of solid friends that we work well together with. We don't like all the politics and cliques that form with big guilds. So we -- and many other mature players just like us -- will naturally gravitate toward games that cater to both solo and group playstyles.

That being said, I'm not too sure about the use of instancing as it's described here. If the game world has as much space as the real world, yet that space is heavily instanced, it seems to me that the result would be a very dead world. It will be necessary to learn more about this aspect of the game as the devs make that info available. For now, I'm withholding my verdict.

 

Excuse me, but your statements seem contradictory.  On the one hand you advocate letting the player choose between Solo and Group play, and how having the choice is always better than being forced to only one or the other  (and I couldn't agree more with you on this issue).

However, on the other hand you state that you think having the choice of entering a fully instanced world, complete with all adventures, towns, NPCs, enemies... everything... or going into the world where there are other MMO players... is bad.   So you want to limit the game play choice to one of these, instead of having the game allow you to choose what type of game play you want at that time?

Personally, there are times when other players are just annoying me.  I'm on my adventure with my group of friends and some other group of players 'takes' what I'm looking for or need.  I have to wait... I hate to wait.   What good are these other players to me when I'm already in a group on my adventure?  I'd rather have a world where my group was able to adventure without other groups getting in my way.

That being said, there are also times when I might want to wander and maybe join another group of people.  If that were the case, I'd like an MMO area for grouping up and interacting.  I've read all the posts on this game, and read their Q & A section on their web site... they are offering both choices to me, much like offering Solo or Group play.  I want the choice, always, for both these things.

I agree with Ozmo.... the point he is trying to make is that the people should have the option to solo or group (via monster difficulty etc etc etc) but not though instancing.... and i agree... instancing is bad, it kills player interaction. In guild wars it was really hard to get to know people becuase it flung you into instances all the time. That and it really didnt have very many social aspect of it aside from actual guild fights, pickup parties, and guild chatter.

Let me try to explain it a bit more simple... basically back when SWG was in its prime (pre-cu) player interaction was at its best... you could run into people messing with their harvestor, sit down at the trading post in dantooine and talk, talk with people in the cantina etc etc etc. There was a ton of social things to do. And this was totally non instanced. The problem with instancing is that it truely kills a good portion of player interaction... you dont run into people harvesting... you dont run across players that are about dead and you save them, posibly you sitting and having a talk and forming a friendship... you get my point.

I think too many games these days are focusing on instanced content and i would have to say that they are shooting themselves in the foot. This is a mmorpg after all isnt it? Not a single player game? So why limit player interaction in that way?

I have read both threads on this game and I have to say that its defiantely a step in the right direction and something many of us have been looking for since SWG pre-cu or whatever other sandbox game weve played and watched it die (due to wow). This game will have my full support if it actually gets off the ground.

My only concern is player interaction and instancing... that may be the only factor that will change my mind on this game.

Edit: Sorry... one more concern.. leveling.... i hope this isnt another class/level based game... but a tree skill based sandbox like SWG used to be, but more like oblivion.

Originally posted by jaigaia

do on a day to day basis and some change ups like a hunting party or living ur adventure or helping on a town seige etc ...well it got me to thinking a game that sounds this dynamic needs more RL implications.

Exactly! More social interaction type stuff. I agree... maybe a chess board in a tavern so players can sit down and enjoy it after a day of tilling the fields or something... but you get the point.

Like maybe marriage to an NPC or another player ...  as it says u will forge relationships with NPCs that will affect u later this sounds great as an enemy could always use ur family against u. If he or she were to die this would definitely be an affect that would shape a persons future and their outlook on life.

I like this idea, i think a marrage thing with other players would be cool too. (not real of course but just for role play spice)

Time itself ... a change in seasons as well as day and night

I for one hope they have seasons... i know i would kinda get flamed for this but i think it would be quite amusing to have to make camp and survive the night due to a blizzard or something... and live to tell others about it lol.

Character housing which surely could be instanced ... ppl could come on invites i suppose ... if  attacked  ur home for instance an enemy could burn it down or cause damage forcing u to do repairs .....

I disagree with the instaced part. Houses should be seen like they kinda were in UO and they would have to take a bit of time to build in my opinion. By a crafter, of course and take stages, but be entertaining for the crafter. In my opinion if they are going to have 900 millon sq kilos in their world this should be the only option to slowly fill it up as well as npc stuff. I totally agree with housing though. Would be awesome to sit down and have some tea with a friend, or sharpen a sword in my workshop.

this may be flamed a bit but ... not sure on what rating ur going for as far as ur audience but what if one day i dont feel like doing anything just sittin back in the game world minding my own business talkin with friends or gettin to know new ones ... i want to CHILL bY the OLD SHADE TREE and take down my last swallow while watching the sunset while Fishing for rations  in the old lake or pond ... this could make for some great screens btw as well as video later as well as a drunkard storyline as ur character may become obsessive with drinkin and fishin by the old shade tree lol.

I truly agree with the above... hell i wouldn't mind climbing up on a mountian top cliff and setting up camp so i could watch the sun come up over the forest below when morning comes.... now THAT would be a screen shot.

how about PETS ... yes i went there , everyone knows mans best friend is loyal ... only this is some fantasy world so imagine what could be created ... however all pets eventually die or take one for the team once in awhile ... so death should be embraced. When ur pet dies it dies ... they are like doritios ... kill em off they ll make more lol ...

I agree, a companion would be a nice option. But in order of importance I think this should be added after the game came out... so they could work on more pressing issues :D But I love the idea and hope they take it into heart.

since u have betting how bout a gambling house where u can play slots or poker or some blackjack for ingame cash. could be set up like mini games and something on the side for players to do besides all the other activities already at their disposal. this is the part that also makes me think this games audience is gonna be a more mature audience as far as its demographics the betting alone im sure would be a major concern from the parental community for children so if ur gonna do it go all the way lol

See the first red paragraph :P I totally agree for more player interaction options.  As many small little things to do the better :)

im sure i could go on and on but i wont just something bout the lil bit of info says that all of the above is fully possible in ur game .... but as u r trying t break the mold on the MMO market i wish u the best of luck and lookin forward to hearing much more on this game ... I think this is exactly the type of game Jeff Strain over at Anet was talkin about in his " How to build a Successful MMO"  article .... for those that havent read it google it , its a good read.

All the red paragraphs are my responses and constructive feedback. I agree with most of it. Lol... I hope this game is true..