General Discussion

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by etwynn

I am not advocating tedium but rather immersion.  If travel is fun, logging on just to travel somewhere should be fun.  If you can make progress in a dungeon with a group, then log out in a safe spot knowing that you can log on again in that safe spot and get a new group to continue your progression, then it wouldnt matter if you only played for an hour.

LOL .. there is no way to make traveling fun enough to eliminate teleports. Sure, first time it is fun. However, unless you plan on each player to visit each location only ONCE (which you will never to afford to build enough locations), traveling become tedious after the 2-3 times on the same road.  NOT FALSIFIABLE.  There's no way to do it until someone figures out how to do it.

Similiar, it is silly to make long dungeon and then log out at safe spots. It is impossible to ask your group mates to all schedule their play time for you in this dungeon again.  What i'm suggesting is a few common safe areas where anyone can group up.  If these areas achieve critical mass (ie, if enough people use them) it would actually be easier to get a group because you just log on and there are other people standing there ready to form a group.

It is MUCH better to make many short dungeons than few large ones so you can finish and move onto the next one (may be with another group) next time.  Much better, in your opinion.  But then again, my game doesnt exist and you've certainly never played it.  So it's hard to say. Just thinking it won't work doesnt make it so.

I am a casual and I found most of your ideas unworkable. Short dungeons, instancing, quests are exactly the right way to go for casuals.

 

Originally posted by nariusseldon

 

Originally posted by etwynn

I am not advocating tedium but rather immersion.  If travel is fun, logging on just to travel somewhere should be fun.  If you can make progress in a dungeon with a group, then log out in a safe spot knowing that you can log on again in that safe spot and get a new group to continue your progression, then it wouldnt matter if you only played for an hour.

LOL .. there is no way to make traveling fun enough to eliminate teleports. Sure, first time it is fun. However, unless you plan on each player to visit each location only ONCE (which you will never to afford to build enough locations), traveling become tedious after the 2-3 times on the same road.

 

Similiar, it is silly to make long dungeon and then log out at safe spots. It is impossible to ask your group mates to all schedule their play time for you in this dungeon again.

It is MUCH better to make many short dungeons than few large ones so you can finish and move onto the next one (may be with another group) next time.

I am a casual and I found most of your ideas unworkable. Short dungeons, instancing, quests are exactly the right way to go for casuals.

 

There are times where exploring a zone is immense fun, especially if the zone offers lots of surprises and random spawns.  Of course, after enough times the element of surprise gives way to understanding and pulls or paths becomes automatic.  That applies to every zone, including the big raid zones.  After 200 molten cores, I remember the color of every brick.

That said long travelling are not likely fun, and more likely nuisance, if the purpose of the team is the dungeon at the end of the travel.  A casual with only 1-2 hours on hand would not want to spend 30 minutes waiting/riding a boat and then 30 minutes walking through a desert to hit the dungeon entrance.  Even if he can log out safely inside the dungeon he would never be able to explore the dungeon again, cos he never know when he can log on again, and if he can find another group that wants his class/level.

Honestly I do not like the old EQ days of spending an hour to port (wizards/druids) members to the right spire, and then march them to the zone.  That 1 hour can be more enjoyable if we are doing the dungeon itself.  Breaking up the mobs defending the entrance to a dungeon is another story, like the plan of power.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

 

Originally posted by etwynn

I am not advocating tedium but rather immersion.  If travel is fun, logging on just to travel somewhere should be fun.  If you can make progress in a dungeon with a group, then log out in a safe spot knowing that you can log on again in that safe spot and get a new group to continue your progression, then it wouldnt matter if you only played for an hour.

LOL .. there is no way to make traveling fun enough to eliminate teleports. Sure, first time it is fun. However, unless you plan on each player to visit each location only ONCE (which you will never to afford to build enough locations), traveling become tedious after the 2-3 times on the same road.

 

Similiar, it is silly to make long dungeon and then log out at safe spots. It is impossible to ask your group mates to all schedule their play time for you in this dungeon again.

It is MUCH better to make many short dungeons than few large ones so you can finish and move onto the next one (may be with another group) next time.

I am a casual and I found most of your ideas unworkable. Short dungeons, instancing, quests are exactly the right way to go for casuals.

 

This is the classic dilemma that MMO devs face.  How to make a game that can appeal to both the casual and hardcore gamers.  I tend to side with hardcore gamers, because I figure, what's the point of playing it if its not going to be challenging?  But I also understand that a lot of people who love to play MMOs simply do not have the time to devote to it that hardcores do.

I agree with you hear that there really is no way to make traveling fun outside of the first or second trip somewhere.  Even if you have random events pop up, that will only take you so far.  This is where I think EQ got it right the very first time.  Make lowbies have to travel the distance on foot, but as characters become more powerful, porting from place to place becomes the travel of choice.

And while I like many of the OP's ideas, I would also caution on limiting safe areas.  True, there shouldn't be a safe area around every corner, but characters should still be able to stop and catch their breath from time to time.  Even the most hardcore player will become frustrated if he gets hacked down at every turn.  I remember traveling through Kithicor Forest once at night in EQ and dying about a half dozen times while simply trying to travel from one zone to another.  It seemed like I lost at least two levels in the process.  It was so frustrating that I was on the verge of quiting the game I loved most.  So danger...good, suicide...bad.

I just kinda wanna say screw you all who say that the OP's ideas aren't good for whatever reason.  I think you should give good constructive critism instead of tearing things apart.

I love your Ideas OP. Sign me up and i would play the game. I like bringing ADVENTURE back into the genre.

To the poster that said that he was a casual gamer and didn't want to play the game that you were suggesting, GOOD. You mentioned that it was a bad thing to implement these ideas. Have you considered having both long and short dungeons, or making the world beneficial to gamers that didn't play as often, just as it would reward people that did play all the time? At the heart MMO gaming as it stands benefits those that  put in the most time. This manifests itself in higher levels, more gold, more items, better items (because of more time spent farming), and of course more characters. Even if you had a skill based system those that palyed more would have more skills. To knock a game because it doesn't cater to the casual gamer, well, that is just dumb. All games DON"T cater to the casual. 

If you are a person that is happy with the state of the current games, then continue to play them, but don't come to forums and just bash stuff because you don't agree with them. Oh wait, i forgot that this is an internet forum and people's mission is to bash other's ideas (kinda like i'm doing now). That is irony huh? 

try playing the old AD&D Eye of the Beholder series.. now that is a series of unforgiving immersive rpg adverture gaming.. there's no town at all that i can remember, you basically live off the land and loot you can find off monsters.. while fun at first, it quickly became tedious due to points you are currently looking for in today's mmorpg

Originally posted by Orthedos

 

Originally posted by jusomdude

No offense but who are you to be telling game developers what they should or shouldn't be doing? At the most you are a paying customer to them, but there are millions of the same thing that aren't so picky.

 

You can spend all day ranting to other MMO players, and maybe a very small number of professional developers (who doubtfully have a say in doing anything about your ideas) in vain or you could do something productive to bring your ideas to life, e.g. start making your own game.

That is a bit harsh.

 

Everyone can rant here, so can the OP.  This place provides a less "commercially sponsored" arena for view exchanges and for brainstorming.  The OP has his unique preference which you may or may not agree with, but shouting him off the stage is not conducive to discussion, which is the blood and life of these forums.

So far as the OP conducts his ranting in a rational and well mannered form, we should welcome him and all his views.  I see no abuses from the OP, did you see any?

It wasn't my intention to offend, it's simply the truth. I really don't care how much he rants about his dreams, just getting my 2 cents in, which I believe is also my right here. I'm not and wasn't shouting him off the stage but in all reality, the only way he's going to see these things happen if he does them himself.

Since you asked, I do see some abuses but really don't care enough to point them out.

It's sad how ignorant and unimaginative people are in the MMORPG.com forums. Everyone that disagrees with the OP has a) never played an MMO or even a GAME that has done one thing that he is suggesting correctly (and there have been many) or b) completely lacks the imagination to realize the potential of his ideas.

Take, for example, nariusseldon. Clearly an idiot, nariusseldon  claims that one could never make travel enjoyable past the first time. I don't know how many times I fought my way through Ogres, Reapers, Dire Wolves and Ettins from Minoc to the mountains North of the city to mine or how many times I braved the path between the Trinsic Moongate and my house in Felucca when I misplaced my rune, but I do know this...I enjoyed the adventure every time in both scenarios.

So go ahead and bash the OP's ideas. It's plainly obvious that you're too stupid to understand the concepts conjured here.

I just hope some company hire the OP to lead a project.