General Discussion

I've had this idea for a while and thrown it around MMORPG.com from time to time, so please tell me what you think.

In World of Warcraft, for the 5-person dungeons (in Outland) you have Normal and Heroic difficulty versions.

The Heroic versions drop better gear, and are more challenging and less forgiving of mistakes.

They require increased coordination, communication, higher base-line gear, and better class balance. So I guess you can say that they require more "skill" to complete in comparison to their Normal difficulty counterparts.

Would you like to see the same Normal vs. Heroic difficulty setting be applied to Raiding?

The current raid structure in games like World of Warcraft is already pretty hardcore. You have to plan and schedule your raids, make sure you have proper class balance, assign roles and use stategies, and of course (at least in WoW) have the appropriate base-line gear level.

So I'd say, you'd turn the current crop of raids into the "Heroic" version, and then create an easier version of the encounter and dub it the "Normal" version.

The Normal version wouldn't be as rigid in terms of strategy and class balance, the base-line gear levels would be lower.. in essence, they'd be much easier then the current raiding scheme.

Of course, by doing so, you'd have to offer appropriate rewards, which means gear that is better then the 5-person dungeons but not as good as the "Heroic" or current-crop of raiding gear.

You could even lower the size requirements if you so choose. Instead of 10 or 25 people required it could be 5 or 10 respectively. Not too sure about that idea though, because the large team size is half the "problem" with current raiding.

I think this is a great idea because:

1. It's gets more people in the door. You get more people experiencing the end-game, downing bosses and completing raids, what better way to motivate end-game PvE players then victory?

2. Good way to "ease" players into the more "hardcore" and challenging world of Heroic Raiding.

3. Why create content that only a small % of your player base will ever experience? With scaling difficulty settings, more people can see the content and experience all the game has to offer.

4. The current crop of raiders still have the best gear and are still looked up to. With my idea, you don't take anything away from the current crowd who raids in MMOs, but you give so much more to the crowd who doesn't raid now but wants to.

What do you think?

*obviously this applies to more games then WoW, but I use it as an example given it's popularity and reach in the MMO market*

I am definitely for the idea.

As it is right now, it is very heard to get into raiding and I am not sure I will ever be able to do that. However, i do want to see much of the content. This is a great way to do so.

They probably should also add the heroic mode to all the pre-BC dungeons. I skipped over many of those when I level up my main. Now I probably will get to see some of them by either running friends through (I am only at 67 though) or doing it with my alt.

It will give me great incentives to go through them with my main properly (it is quite different to just run someone through) if they become heoric.

Yeah I've always thought they should add Heroic mode for the old world dungeons for groups of 5 level 70s.

They should even had Heroic level 70 mode for the old Raids.

Make ZG and AQ20 into 10-person level 70 raids, and all the old 40-person raids to level 70 twenty-five person raids.

Update the gear, resize/touch up the encounters.. and BOOM

You just doubled your end-game PvE content.

I wouldn't complain!

What's the hold up people?

So many are so pashionate for or against raiding, so come on! Tell me your thoughts.

And remember this thread is NOT about raiding vs. not raiding...

If you don't like raiding and don't think it should be part of the game, then say to yourself "what could be done to make me enjoy raiding" and then read my idea and answer the poll.

You took an idea that has already been implemented reiterated it asked if they would apply it to old world instances and pawned it off as your own idea...

Originally posted by dirtyjoe78

You took an idea that has already been implemented reiterated it asked if they would apply it to old world instances and pawned it off as your own idea...

I'm talking first and foremost about Raiding.

The inclusion of old world content is just a bonus topic.

And no, the "Normal" and "Heroic" mode are not my idea, I'm just asking should they be implemented into Raiding too?

Go troll somewhere else please, thanks.

DDO offers between 3 and 4 difficulty settings for all quests AND all raids.  I love it, and yeah...the difficulty and the loot scales accordingly.

Excellent Vincenz.

I'm glad they do!

They need to expand on this idea in other games, the more options the better!

Scaling loot vs. difficulty FTW

Why run the same difficult raid 4 times until you "get it right" when you can instead start at Difficulty 1, get some loot and accomplish something, then move to difficulty 2, then 3, then 4....

Makes more sense to me

Raiding/PvP/RvR, not on my server.  All loots redistributed in GROUPING.

I want to start at level 1 and group.  And I want to conclude my game experience in group.  I don't want to feel shafted because I don't play something else.  I am a grouper, I deserve to either succeed or fail at been the best grouper always grouping.  Best groupers have to be groupers.

Raiding is grouping...

Just on a larger scale.

As I said in my blog comments:

You don't NEED to raid to do the small-group encounters.

That's the way WoW works.

You do the normal 5-person dungeons. This prepares you for the heroic 5-person dungeons.

The heroic 5-person dungeons prepare you for raiding.

But if you don't want to raid, then if you can complete all the heroic 5-person dungeons and get the best gear from them,

well you are now the best you can be at 5-person grouping.

Using raid level gear for 5-person heroic dungeons is over kill.

You don't NEED the raid gear. Sure, it may make things a touch easier, be raiding vs. heroic 5-person dungeons are two seperate beasts.