General Discussion

The O.P. has obviously never heard of games like counter strike, unreal tournament and so on. They are not MMO's by any means but they are PvP games that are hugely successfull.

 NcSoft's Lineage series is a popular pvp mmo and will hopefully see a revival once it gets ported to the ps3. In WoW and Guild Wars there is possibly just as many players who play for the limmited PvP as there are those who just Role Play.

You can argue all you want that people play x amount of games for pve not for pvp but you can never deny that the PvP market is desperately seeking a quality PvP mmorpg to flock to (sadly Fury failed to live up the hype). If the day of deliverance ever comes then you can bet the farm on that game becoming just as big as WoW.

PvE appeals to the casual gamer, as that is less demanding and you can easily grow our character at your own pace. PvP on the other had is very demanding, as player work extremely hard to better their character in competition with others.

Originally posted by Silvermink

I'm still waiting for a pvp (rvr) type game that effects the pve game. Quests your side can only do if you own outposts. Wow suggested this but the idea never materialized and was marginallized into BGs. Imagine if crossroads could be captured. And alliance newbs could go there and do quests for interesting, even better loots.

WoW made one new zone this way.  You kill all the guards in the contested town in this zone, and then capture the flag in the middle of the town.  Once the town is yours, you can interact with the npcs and do quest and purchase some things.

Originally posted by orangejuicee

PvE appeals to the casual gamer, as that is less demanding and you can easily grow our character at your own pace. PvP on the other had is very demanding, as player work extremely hard to better their character in competition with others.

This is untrue with WoW.  The PvP is much more casual than PvE.  For PvP:  there is world PvP, instanced battle grounds which are public, and arena PvP.  You can solo world PvP, anyone can join the battlegrounds, and everyone does arena so finding a 2v2, 3v3, or 5v5 teams is very easy.

To PvE, you have to be committed to a guild that does PvE.  The raids take all day when you are actually trying to progress in these end game dungeons.  I quit WoW almost a year ago because there is nothing new about PvP and the PvE was too time consuming.  I want some castle/fort sieging PvP modes or something to keep me PvPing other than X amount of people verse X amount of people.

Originally posted by ASmith84

where did you get this idea? take pvp out of wow and guildwars and see what happpens. where did all the fun go?

I can't disagree with the statement, but for a different reason than you would think.  The reason that games like Wow need PVP is that there is NOTHING ELSE worth doing in them.  But I am not a fan of PVP, I find that it is the bandage put on a wound, not the cure.  The reason some players what PVP is simply that they are bored stiff with the game play otherwise, but the answer is better game play.

Give me adventures worth playing, stories I care about, enemies that think, plots that thicken, monsters that hunt me, wars that matter with victories and defeats that change the world.   Give me this, and I will toss PVP in the mud where it belongs.  To me, PVP is like being a 'guest' on the Springer show, a bunch of squabbling people that throw chairs at each other... but hey, that's more interesting than watchng reruns of the checker turnaments, over and over.   Amd that's about the level of other game play offered in MMOs. 

But I'll turn the channel in a minute to watch a great movie instead of Springer... and I want a game that is equal to a great adventure movie... in fact, it should be better, as I can make the choices.

Originally posted by Maragold

 

Give me adventures worth playing, stories I care about, enemies that think, plots that thicken, monsters that hunt me, wars that matter with victories and defeats that change the world. 

I can be the monster that hunts you.

Originally posted by Maragold

 

Originally posted by ASmith84

where did you get this idea? take pvp out of wow and guildwars and see what happpens. where did all the fun go?

 

I can't disagree with the statement, but for a different reason than you would think.  The reason that games like Wow need PVP is that there is NOTHING ELSE worth doing in them.  But I am not a fan of PVP, I find that it is the bandage put on a wound, not the cure.  The reason some players what PVP is simply that they are bored stiff with the game play otherwise, but the answer is better game play.

Give me adventures worth playing, stories I care about, enemies that think, plots that thicken, monsters that hunt me, wars that matter with victories and defeats that change the world.   Give me this, and I will toss PVP in the mud where it belongs.  To me, PVP is like being a 'guest' on the Springer show, a bunch of squabbling people that throw chairs at each other... but hey, that's more interesting than watchng reruns of the checker turnaments, over and over.   Amd that's about the level of other game play offered in MMOs. 

But I'll turn the channel in a minute to watch a great movie instead of Springer... and I want a game that is equal to a great adventure movie... in fact, it should be better, as I can make the choices.

Every PvP MMO I've ever tried has been a test on my nerves.  There were either too many small penis dorks, horrible lag and performance, or just craptastic themes.

The only PvP game I've come sort of close to liking was Guild Wars.  I don't like it though.  Most of the community is horrible.  It feels like I'm standing in the middle of a grade school playground seeing the conversations going on.

PvP is good for FPS and such.  But I just don't think it pans out too well in MMO's.

DAoC is pretty cool though.  But then it goes back to that performance issue again.  I've been in battles where lag and performance were so bad it was near impossible to tell what was going on.  Definitely DAoC is the best PvP concept though.

Originally posted by SonofSeth

Originally posted by Maragold

 

Give me adventures worth playing, stories I care about, enemies that think, plots that thicken, monsters that hunt me, wars that matter with victories and defeats that change the world. 

I can be the monster that hunts you.

Exactly.

MMOs already have intelligent enemies in abundance - other players.

Originally posted by Rayalist

 

Originally posted by SonofSeth

Originally posted by Maragold

 

Give me adventures worth playing, stories I care about, enemies that think, plots that thicken, monsters that hunt me, wars that matter with victories and defeats that change the world. 

I can be the monster that hunts you.

 

Exactly.

MMOs already have intelligent enemies in abundance - other players.

I hear that song sung all the time, but the majority of PVP players are just annoying, not challenging.  As soon as I say I want monsters hunting me, you think in terms of some idiot who wants to run up and kill me for my stuff or EXP.  

This is NOT what I'm talking about.  What I want is to sneak into the Cult of the Red Eye and steal the red eye gem out of their idol.   Then, because I did that they decide to sacrifice me to their god.  While I'm out on my next adventure one of them spots me in a tavern and alerts the rest of the cult members.  They then lay a trap outside town with a broken down wagon and some guy pretending to be hurt on the ground to sucker me into their ambush.   This is game play, not random attacks by morons.

Originally posted by Kurir

Games or servers that force me to PvP to get the good rewards don't get my subscription money thats how I make my statement. As game designers, if you want me to invest my time and money in your game then you need to provide me the PvE non-group oriented content I'm looking for fail to do that and then you simply don't get my money.

Some of you are going to flame and say then go play a stand alone or some such nonsense, thats not the point. People like to be around people, that doesn't equate to wanting to getting 40 of them to do the same thing you want to do. What it means is that even though we might not be working toward the same goal we are at least there and by being there we can open a door for someone, lend a hand if needed and then go about our business. Cooperative game play and a sense of community thats what I look for in a game, to bad there really aren't any out there anymore.

Cool PvE non-Group based game