While at this year's Game Developer's Conference both Keith Cross and Laura Genender attended a seminar called "My First MMO". This seminar was about the upcoming MMO All Points Bulletin. While both Keith and Laura left the room impressed, Keith's impressions were pessimistic, while Laura's was through the roof enthusiastic. Today, we present both of their views as an MMORPG.com first look at APB.

Part One Sample

While at the Game Developers Conference, I attended a seminar titled “My First MMO.” I assumed the focus of the seminar was going to be on tips and tricks for those ambitious souls who want to take on the challenge of creating the fickle creature known as the MMO game. The seminar turned out to be more of a showcase for the graphics and game concepts for APB. If you haven’t heard of APB, or All Points Bulletin, it’s essentially cops and robbers online. Another way to look at it would be to think of it as GTA’s half sibling because the guy up on the podium is none other than Dave Jones, the creator of the original GTA and currently the CEO of Real Time Worlds.

The question of what exactly defines an MMO took up the first portion of the talk. The MMO world is currently dominated by RPGs, and the definition of MMO in the popular consciousness is blurred with that of the MMORPG. In my mind, the bare minimum you need to call you game an MMO would be a number of players, numbering in at least the thousands, playing together in a persistent game environment with unique characters. Of these minimum qualities the only one that I would put in the category of both MMO and RPG would be having unique characters.

Part Two Sample

This past Thursday I accompanied Keith to the “My First MMO” seminar. I didn’t really know what to expect; to be honest, I thought it would be ‘lessons learned’ about MMO-specific issues, like customer support tools, PVP vs. PVE balance, etc. As Keith mentions in his article, though, the seminar was more about speaker David Jones’ upcoming MMO All Points Bulletin, or APB.

The first half of the seminar, Jones discussed the definition of an MMO and how he was trying to break that mold. Keith gives an excellent description of that presentation, far beyond my power of memory, so I’ll just recommend you read his article and move on to APB.

The second half of the seminar was a showcase of APB, and here’s where my jaw started unhinging. Everything about the game seems fresh, detailed, and unique; whether or not it will actually work as an MMO is another question, but it’s Keith’s job to be jaded – I get to be a fangirl.

Read Part One here.

Read Part Two here.

That character creation video was pretty amazing, I have to admit.

I normally don't like PvP, which is basically what this game seems to be, but I have to give them high marks for creativity and character design.

Yeh, character creation looks like a dream to me. Just hope the game isn't 100% PvP.

I agree that APB sounds too good to be true. However, if everything the developer says comes to fruition, this game will revolutionize the genre. I think this game will be a hit if it includes everything the developer spoke about.

The only thing im worried about with apb is that they will over hype it....and make it too good to be true, then people will be disapointed when they are missing something they thought was going to be in the game.

I'm not sure how you can be to pessimistic about a game that is TRYING to be radically different than the warhammer aoc wow clones. For me they get 3 stars just for being different. No levels and turf wars come on what more can you ask for?

It would be so cool to make my toon look just like me including all my tattoos.

There are some interesting ideas and I'll be keeping an eye on this....

sounds like a good game on paper. must of missed where they mentioned not having a standard leveling system, but that sounds good too. im a little concerned about the balance between cops and robbers but im sure there are numerous things to be done about it. what kind of an endgame will this thing have? do you have to form a crime syndicate and be hunted by the fbi or something?

i think this game could appeal to the casual gamer. log on for a quick smash and grab kill some cops and then log out. and then you can appeal to the hardcore gamer by having a system set up to create a drug deal like in that new jack city movie. lol they could be like battlekeeps in AOC.

Originally posted by mynameisben

sounds like a good game on paper. must of missed where they mentioned not having a standard leveling system, but that sounds good too. im a little concerned about the balance between cops and robbers but im sure there are numerous things to be done about it. what kind of an endgame will this thing have? do you have to form a crime syndicate and be hunted by the fbi or something?

i think this game could appeal to the casual gamer. log on for a quick smash and grab kill some cops and then log out. and then you can appeal to the hardcore gamer by having a system set up to create a drug deal like in that new jack city movie. lol they could be like battlekeeps in AOC.

 

I would have to say that the PvP and shooting appeal to my FPS side, while the character customization and character progress appeal to my MMO side, you kind of get the best of both worlds. Let’s hope they can put this together.

I'd have to say the house "pessimist" is much more of a pragmatist.

The game sounds great--yeah, as always, we will have to wait, see, and taste what actually comes out of the pot. But the sounds and smells from the APB kitchen are making my mouth water.

As for the designer's approach and comments--we need more of that in MMOs. More willingness to look at things and ask why and why not?

Soon as i heared about APB i went to the site and booked marked it its a game am looking forward to this year and i upgraded my pc for this to am hopeing to make a clan out of this game.

To answer the question of the end game , Stephen Hewitt, Lead Designer on APB has said

"APB is a freeform, massively multiplayer game where players can either play as cops (Enforcers) or robbers (Criminals). Criminals commit crimes, and Enforcers try to stop them. You can play solo, group up into groups, or form more permanent Gangs or Squads (much like guilds). You can fight over persistent Turf Areas, develop contacts, and do a whole host of other things."

Nicky Hunt Senior Software Engineer from Real Time Worlds(developer) has said in an interview

"Question: So, if the game is cops vs. robbers, how do you start the game?

NICKY HUNT: Criminals will start as a basic thug and cops will start out as a rookie. Each side will level up and move up through the ranks of their respective areas of play.

Question:Can you make or join a gang if you're a criminal?

NICKY HUNT: Yes, of course, and that will play a big role. You'll also be able to control territory with your gang. There's going to be a whole territory system involved."

So one of the end games is your guild fighting other guilds over ownership of persistent turf areas. Also there seems to be some kinda reputation system so that might be part of the end game also.

The quotes are from apb-evolved.com/

The concept and the character creation video got me salivating. I'm keeping an eye on this one!

PvP.

Action.

No grind.

Customisation-focus.

This game is what some of you guys have always been asking for.  I hope you support it.  Cause if you don't, you have no idea how much I will be happy telling you all these points are detrimental in a MMO...

Originally posted by MarL

To answer the question of the end game , Stephen Hewitt, Lead Designer on APB has said

"APB is a freeform, massively multiplayer game where players can either play as cops (Enforcers) or robbers (Criminals). Criminals commit crimes, and Enforcers try to stop them. You can play solo, group up into groups, or form more permanent Gangs or Squads (much like guilds). You can fight over persistent Turf Areas, develop contacts, and do a whole host of other things."

Nicky Hunt Senior Software Engineer from Real Time Worlds(developer) has said in an interview

"Question: So, if the game is cops vs. robbers, how do you start the game?

NICKY HUNT: Criminals will start as a basic thug and cops will start out as a rookie. Each side will level up and move up through the ranks of their respective areas of play.

Question:Can you make or join a gang if you're a criminal?

NICKY HUNT: Yes, of course, and that will play a big role. You'll also be able to control territory with your gang. There's going to be a whole territory system involved."

So one of the end games is your guild fighting other guilds over ownership of persistent turf areas. Also there seems to be some kinda reputation system so that might be part of the end game also.

 

The quotes are from apb-evolved.com/

Nice info, get this game an offical forums on here, stat!!!

I wonder if you'll be able to play a dirty cop or an undercover thug

Well, rhetorically, he answered his own question. Without balance, you have the example given. Not much of a  leap of logic there...

Oh wait, maybe the 4 noobs had the time of their life fighting a guy they couldn't touch!

...

And who determines what 'balance' is right? How do you guage players 'power' in these games? Levels typically, but this won't have levels right? So...

Well, this is just more proof of the shotgun effect, fire enough MMO's at the gaming audience, maybe one won't suck. I don't have high hopes of a pay to play GTA game.

Originally posted by eric_w66

And who determines what 'balance' is right? How do you guage players 'power' in these games? Levels typically, but this won't have levels right? So...

Well, this is just more proof of the shotgun effect, fire enough MMO's at the gaming audience, maybe one won't suck. I don't have high hopes of a pay to play GTA game.

Nobody has said if this will be pay to play or not. Since this WILL be on the xbox360 live service also. They might make it free with ads or item store. Until they announce something we wont know.

Originally posted by eric_w66

We were also treated to a sequence where four novice criminals on a smash and grab get taken down by one lone super cop. At this point Jones rhetorically asked why so many other PvP matching systems forced even numbered teams, when there is a wealth of other viable options.

Well, rhetorically, he answered his own question. Without balance, you have the example given. Not much of a  leap of logic there...

Oh wait, maybe the 4 noobs had the time of their life fighting a guy they couldn't touch!

As David put it, this means everyone ends up happy: the 4 newbies have a chance because they only have to face one guy, and the one guy gets to be a badass and take on 4 people by himself.

...

And who determines what 'balance' is right? How do you guage players 'power' in these games? Levels typically, but this won't have levels right? So...

Well, this is just more proof of the shotgun effect, fire enough MMO's at the gaming audience, maybe one won't suck. I don't have high hopes of a pay to play GTA game.

So....let's see what they come up with for 'viable options'. Proof? More like a cynical guess.

Originally posted by JK-Kanosi

I agree that APB sounds too good to be true. However, if everything the developer says comes to fruition, this game will revolutionize the genre. I think this game will be a hit if it includes everything the developer spoke about.

knowing this developer (webzen), the game might be as good as they say, they'll just never release it in America. They've been promising SUN and Wiki for years now. SUN has been out in Korea since 05, and was supposed to come out here in 06. Now, i'm not sure if I even want to play it anymore. Webzen is undoubtedly one of my least favorite companies.

The guy that's behind Crackdown is making APB so it's definately coming to America, probably before Asia even.

The issue I see with this, and perhaps the only major issue, is that there does not seem to be any PvE. No INstanced PvE, or open world PvE.

So take the average gamer that likes to Solo online (Apparently there are a lot of people that play this way, see WoW for more info ;-) ). The suggestion is that as a High Level solo player, the game can match you with 4 low level players.

Now what happens with MMORPGs is that at some point they become top heavy, there's a lot of high level players but no so much low level players.

What happens to the player match making then?

And then what about Server populations? Your gameplay experience will be directly tied to the number of people and the overall level range on your server, since apparently PvP isn't really an option for advancement, its the primary focus for advancement.

It's like hunting for a Counter Strike game, or going through a Halo matchmaking engine to find a game. Works fine when there are several people at your skill level online, but when there aren't it sucks.

And for an MMORPG, persistent world type game, the player should be challenged and be able to find a suitable game always (especially for a monthly fee).

Is this potential issue addressed anywhere?

Originally posted by mynameisben

sounds like a good game on paper. must of missed where they mentioned not having a standard leveling system, but that sounds good too. im a little concerned about the balance between cops and robbers but im sure there are numerous things to be done about it. what kind of an endgame will this thing have? do you have to form a crime syndicate and be hunted by the fbi or something?

i think this game could appeal to the casual gamer. log on for a quick smash and grab kill some cops and then log out. and then you can appeal to the hardcore gamer by having a system set up to create a drug deal like in that new jack city movie. lol they could be like battlekeeps in AOC.

 

They said that there would be no leveling system, but you could see a character's progress in their appearance and weapons.  For example, we saw some "newbies" in blue jeans and white t-shirts, then a much more "gangsta" looking character who had been playing a long time.  David also mentioned that the newbies only had pistol, while the veteran had a variety of weapons.

Originally posted by Kataal

Originally posted by JK-Kanosi

I agree that APB sounds too good to be true. However, if everything the developer says comes to fruition, this game will revolutionize the genre. I think this game will be a hit if it includes everything the developer spoke about.

knowing this developer (webzen), the game might be as good as they say, they'll just never release it in America. They've been promising SUN and Wiki for years now. SUN has been out in Korea since 05, and was supposed to come out here in 06. Now, i'm not sure if I even want to play it anymore. Webzen is undoubtedly one of my least favorite companies.

When did developer webzen take over real time worlds developers?   Its real time worlds who is the developers of the game webzen is just going publish it.

I've been following APB since it was being thought up hearing rumors several years ago about dave wanting to make a gta like mmo. However after reading and listening to the movies I'm frustrated because it would appear the game isn't going to be much of an mmo but rather more of a hellgate london as far as MASSIVE goes. I will surely play apb but it pisses me off when amazing games like this shoot for instance based worlds and encounters rather than making one massive world.   My opinion is all speculation of course seeing as I have not played the game. But just take hellgate for instance how awesome would it be if it were just one big ass world instead of the piece of crap it turned out to be... I have followed apb longer than hellgate and I think APB is going to hold the same disappointment for me as hellgate did. I will however be spending 5 hrs making my character before this disappointment sets in :O

If any of you writers or people who work for mmorpg to get interviews are reading this and you ever interview the devs about APB talk to them and really get into whether or not it is a persistent world or 90% instanced.... with those graphics it is easy to assume the devs are going for instanced.. I r sad

Haven't heard heard of the game before. Seems to have much potential. Will keep my eyes peeled.