Kinda funny.

www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2008/01/28

Originally posted by xaldraxius

I played DDO for a while and got to level 7. It's a good game, but a lot like CoH it's completely group based, and everything is instanced.  Many days I sat around trying to find a group, but everyone was too busy standing around at the auctioneer.  You have to repeat the same quests so many times that you get sick of them, and I found that the clerics either felt like they were the most important members of the team and you HAD to listen to them, or they were battle clerics and couldn't be bothered to heal anyone. The people all seemed pretty friendly, except for the clerics who, for the most part, were a bunch of elitist snobs. Mages do too much damage for a fighter to keep aggro off of them, and fighter taunts are almost completely ineffective.  It's an issue of the GM's trying to make each class capable of soloing, in a game where no one solos, and no one even knows the definition of 'support' class. That and the PvP is a joke. If you aren't a Mage or a Cleric, don't bother. Turbine should have stuck by AC2 rather than ripping it's costumers off, then making a bunch of niche' games. DDO has already done a server merge, and I feel it is headed for the recycle bin with AC2 pretty soon.

1. "Completely group-based"  After adding solo difficulty, HoT <which I haven't seen yet - does it work IN the instances?>, and some of the changes coming in Mod 6 [re-usible rest shrines in outdoor and lower level instances], DDO is soloable for much of its content.  I've only played my "main" to level 5, but have never grouped.  I've also only soloed in CoV [didn't care for CoH].

2. I agree that everyone is at the auctioneer and that repeating dungeons gets boring.

3. I haven't seen that problem with clerics nor seen it on the boards other than a few posters who were blasted off the boards with volleys of  "I'll heal you when you learn how to play your character and/or stay with the group instead of zerging"  I know that I've been uncursed, etc by random clerics while recovering in a tavern. [This was before curses etc wore off over time]

Now, a few questions for those who are CURRENTLY playing:

a.  Do you HoT while IN the instances or only while in town?

b. Do SP regen in instances?

I am probably going to re-sub [after almost a year off] in 3 weeks - gotta see what happens on the boards once Mod 6 goes live.

Originally posted by xaldraxius

I played DDO for a while and got to level 7. It's a good game, but a lot like CoH it's completely group based, and everything is instanced.  thats because D&D is inheritantly group based. 

Many days I sat around trying to find a group, but everyone was too busy standing around at the auctioneer.  Maybe you were on before the merger but this is so not true, my friend and I always put our group up in the Group Looking for More list and never have a problem except perhaps to late at night.

You have to repeat the same quests so many times that you get sick of them, and I found that the clerics either felt like they were the most important members of the team and you HAD to listen to them, or they were battle clerics and couldn't be bothered to heal anyone.  Not all clerics are this way just players that a pricks and theyh come in all forms of classes.   I've also never in my entire experience for the past year HAD to repeat a quest to progress.  BTW if your zerging and not staying with the group the cleric won't heal you, if your around a corner or a blocked they can't heal you. 

The people all seemed pretty friendly, except for the clerics who, for the most part, were a bunch of elitist snobs. Mages do too much damage for a fighter to keep aggro off of them, and fighter taunts are almost completely ineffective.  It's an issue of the GM's trying to make each class capable of soloing, in a game where no one solos, and no one even knows the definition of 'support' class.   Your either smoking crack or groupign with jerks or grouping people who just spam spells instead of casting a few to regulate aggro not to mention some tanks just have sucky builds.  I've grouped with a few bad tanks..you know your build is lame when a mechanic rogue out kill counts you.    

The GM's have never once balanced the classes for soloability...I've given up all hope of ever soloing with my rogue its just not possible once you get past the solo noob quests.  The assumption no one knows the definition of a support class is a LIE ... honestly how much more can you make up?  I know my place with my rogue and its not to tank and its not to heal.   I do what DPS I can and make sure no one gets blown to bits by traps.

That and the PvP is a joke. If you aren't a Mage or a Cleric, don't bother. Turbine should have stuck by AC2 rather than ripping it's costumers off, then making a bunch of niche' games. DDO has already done a server merge, and I feel it is headed for the recycle bin with AC2 pretty soon.   I agree the PvP is lame but they added in as something extra to do and instead of destroying the PVE game to balance it for PvP they simply left it as is....get over it its ment to be a pve game.  There's no point in DDO pvp because balanced & fair D&D PvP rules are basically none existant.  I wish people would get it into their thick skulls that D&D is about a group adventure either as bad guys or good guys depending on the campaign and its never been about Pwning the Mofo next to you.   If thats the game you want then there's a ton of ME ME ME games.

 You have to learn to work as a team or your group PUG or guild wise will fail.   If you want to solo the entire game get real...high level content is pretty much exclusively group based.   Even if you pug your entire carreer you still learn group skills if you try.   People are pricks and they're in every game, purposely making it out as if they're only this way in DDO is just blatantly lying to yourself and everyone else.

Considering the constant attention and love Turbine gives to DDO it won't be hitting the trash bin.   It'd of died already and they wouldn't spend money on the game otherwise. 

A. You do not heal overtime in instances. I don't even think in Mod 6 you will heal over time in instances. Only in the city and in tavenrs do you heal over time. I think the heal has a greater regen in taverns than in the city, I could be wrong. Someone correct me if I am.

As of Mod 6 there is no more death penalty. Also I believe in Mod 6 rest shrines can now be used more than once, but are on a timer.

B. SP also do not regen in instances.

As for waiting to see on the boards to see how well Mod 6 goes over, to each their own. Some may hate it some may like it. My suggestion is find out by doing the trial and find out for yourself. Just use a different email account and give it a try. I'm willing to bet there is going to be a few hotfixes in the next few days of bugs that crept in at the last minute, but try it now.

I'm glad they're making the shrines more usable in 'some' cases wish they were allowing more use of them in all cases!

Originally posted by Sevenwind

A. You do not heal overtime in instances. I don't even think in Mod 6 you will heal over time in instances. Only in the city and in tavenrs do you heal over time. I think the heal has a greater regen in taverns than in the city, I could be wrong. Someone correct me if I am.

As of Mod 6 there is no more death penalty. Also I believe in Mod 6 rest shrines can now be used more than once, but are on a timer.

B. SP also do not regen in instances.

As for waiting to see on the boards to see how well Mod 6 goes over, to each their own. Some may hate it some may like it. My suggestion is find out by doing the trial and find out for yourself. Just use a different email account and give it a try. I'm willing to bet there is going to be a few hotfixes in the next few days of bugs that crept in at the last minute, but try it now.

 

 

Thanks for the update :)

The reasons I'm going to wait:   1. EVE - while I've never heard of another company so badly doing an update that the corrupt your boot,ini, I ain't takin' no chances ;)

2. As you mention, I'll wait for the hotfixing to be done [so I miss any exploits, oh well, I solo, I'm not in some uber guild]

3.  I get a week off so I'll actually have TIME to play in 3 weeks :)

EDIT: I'm also looking forward to crafting! <3

Originally posted by uncus

3.  I get a week off so I'll actually have TIME to play in 3 weeks :)

Ok that's a better excuse. I'll allow it, haha

I was kind of disappointed to read about the death penalty being nerfed. I like games that come with a bit of risk. Although having not played the game I can't comment on this change too much. I plan on giving the trial a go sometime.

I've been playing D&D for over 20 years, yes I am 'that' old. And when I say that the clerics I have teamed with are elitist snobs that know nothing about playing a support class I mean exactly that. Now it could be that I have had bad luck in the groups I have found, but I'm not an idiot, and not a zerger.

One dwarf cleric I teamed with quit healing completely in one quest I was in because one member of the party refused to wait on him to shrine and went to explore. Now I admit that it was a foolish thing to do, but the guy was like 8 or 10, you could tell from his voice, and the cleric was mad because we didn't do anything to stop him. Which wasn't true because we told him several times not to run off, but the cleric just up and quit healing, causing the whole group to wipe. Then he had the audacity to say that it was our fault for not restraining the kid.

Another time I am making a group, and I invite this cleric, who doesn't tell me up front, but lets me find out part way through the quest that he is a 'battle cleric' and instead of staying back and healing, he feels the need to wade into battle like a second rate tank, once again resulting in a group wipe. Which resulted in me having to ask every time I made a group, whether or not the cleric was a 'healer'.

I don't have to make this stuff up, and I honestly wish I were. Almost every cleric I teamed with had this attitude that the whole party revolved around him, and unfortunately it often did. And when you complain that the healer isn't doing his job, he bitches about wasting spell points, and says that I should have came loaded with healing pots, which are egregiously expensive, and really don't heal for very much at all. When I have to down 10 pots to get through a battle when I am tanking because the healer won't waste sp on me because he's too busy healing the mage who hasn't got the sense to attack the same creature I am and starts spamming AoE attacks and complaining that I am not doing my job...*whew* Here I am with my tower shield and +3 adamantine full plate and I am taking hits like I've fashioned my armor out of used tin cans.

The game isn't group centric, it's healer centric, and there are very few good ones.

Here is the new Mod 6 Splash Screen. Mod 6 is now live.

Originally posted by xaldraxius

I've been playing D&D for over 20 years, yes I am 'that' old. And when I say that the clerics I have teamed with are elitist snobs that know nothing about playing a support class I mean exactly that. Now it could be that I have had bad luck in the groups I have found, but I'm not an idiot, and not a zerger.

One dwarf cleric I teamed with quit healing completely in one quest I was in because one member of the party refused to wait on him to shrine and went to explore. Now I admit that it was a foolish thing to do, but the guy was like 8 or 10, you could tell from his voice, and the cleric was mad because we didn't do anything to stop him. Which wasn't true because we told him several times not to run off, but the cleric just up and quit healing, causing the whole group to wipe. Then he had the audacity to say that it was our fault for not restraining the kid.

Another time I am making a group, and I invite this cleric, who doesn't tell me up front, but lets me find out part way through the quest that he is a 'battle cleric' and instead of staying back and healing, he feels the need to wade into battle like a second rate tank, once again resulting in a group wipe. Which resulted in me having to ask every time I made a group, whether or not the cleric was a 'healer'.

I don't have to make this stuff up, and I honestly wish I were. Almost every cleric I teamed with had this attitude that the whole party revolved around him, and unfortunately it often did. And when you complain that the healer isn't doing his job, he bitches about wasting spell points, and says that I should have came loaded with healing pots, which are egregiously expensive, and really don't heal for very much at all. When I have to down 10 pots to get through a battle when I am tanking because the healer won't waste sp on me because he's too busy healing the mage who hasn't got the sense to attack the same creature I am and starts spamming AoE attacks and complaining that I am not doing my job...*whew* Here I am with my tower shield and +3 adamantine full plate and I am taking hits like I've fashioned my armor out of used tin cans.

The game isn't group centric, it's healer centric, and there are very few good ones.

I don't doubt that you've had bad experiences, though I would blame it more on the PUGs than on clerics in general.  As a cleric, I would use my sp to heal the tanks first - keeping them above 50% [I've read about tanks that want to be healed full at all times regardless of the condition of the rest of the party], then worry about the rest.  The level of the group makes a bit of difference here, though, as a cleric below 9th level won't have raise dead to use on the mage [or whomever] that drops - making keeping the foolish mage alive a priority [until the tank gets close to dropping, then it's decision time!].  Then again, since I don't play in PUGs [I don't group at all since my buddies tried it and left early on], I guess my playstyle doesn't much matter ;)

Clerics aren't the only healers... Bards, rogues with scrolls, potions... there are many ways to heal in DDO [and D&D in general].  IF you build a good party [again, I won't PUG, so I'm not sure if that is truly possible outside of a guild], you shouldn't see the problems that you have.

One other thing that stands out in your post - possibly not intentially - is that you seem to imply that YOUR class is more important, and that the other classes are there only to SUPPORT your class.  That may not have been your intention, or be your position, but that seems to come across.

Oh - to the other posters:  about the no HoT in instances - Mod 6 notes mentioned that incapacitated characters that stabilized would regain hp at a certain rate.  That lead me to believe that HoT either was or would soon be occurring in instances.  If not, does it mean that you would regain hp to 0 then need to be healed by a party member, or would you regain to 1 and be able to heal yourself [provided you weren't immediately struck down by whatever dropped you in the first place]?  I would ask on the official boards, but am not subbed atm.

EDIT: NM - I found the part in the relase notes:  You DO regen to 1 hp after stabilizing!

Support class just refers to a class that uses their abilities to heal/buff/debuff. I'm not saying they are there to support me personally, but the group as a whole. I bash clerics in that game a lot because the party is very dependant on them. I've had a lot of problems with stupid fighters too, don't get me wrong, but it is rare that one fighter being dumb ended up killing the whole group, where as if the cleric didn't know what he was doing, or decided to get up and grab a sandwich without warning, the whole group got wiped. I was using a tower shield and wearing some pretty good armor and the mobs were still hitting me for ungodly amounts of damage. Tank classes are way underpowered in DDO, which was one of the reasons I didn't like the game very much.

Originally posted by xaldraxius

I played DDO for a while and got to level 7. It's a good game, but a lot like CoH it's completely group based, and everything is instanced.  Many days I sat around trying to find a group, but everyone was too busy standing around at the auctioneer.  You have to repeat the same quests so many times that you get sick of them, and I found that the clerics either felt like they were the most important members of the team and you HAD to listen to them, or they were battle clerics and couldn't be bothered to heal anyone. The people all seemed pretty friendly, except for the clerics who, for the most part, were a bunch of elitist snobs. Mages do too much damage for a fighter to keep aggro off of them, and fighter taunts are almost completely ineffective.  It's an issue of the GM's trying to make each class capable of soloing, in a game where no one solos, and no one even knows the definition of 'support' class. That and the PvP is a joke. If you aren't a Mage or a Cleric, don't bother. Turbine should have stuck by AC2 rather than ripping it's costumers off, then making a bunch of niche' games. DDO has already done a server merge, and I feel it is headed for the recycle bin with AC2 pretty soon.

DDO was not designed for PvP at all and hopefully never will. I do not believe it is a niche game, over 2 years, it has doubled in content since launch... That's something to be very proud of. Clerics are not needed at all, in fact, most of my Permadeath play is without a cleric or any healing class. DDO focuses on tactics more than roles of classes. Taunting in DDO is a skill (Intimidate) not a given ability like in other MMO's. There are TONS of people who solo in DDO, what are you talking about? Also, level 7 you havent even raided yet.. Raids in DDO take tactics to a new level and everyone must cooperate or else you fail.

Perhaps giving DDO another look with a more optimistic side and hitting raiding levels may change your mind, but even if it doesn't, players that don't appreciate DDO for what it gives that other MMO's have never touched should not be playing, so if that is the case, so be it.

Originally posted by Murdus

 

Originally posted by xaldraxius

I played DDO for a while and got to level 7. It's a good game, but a lot like CoH it's completely group based, and everything is instanced.  Many days I sat around trying to find a group, but everyone was too busy standing around at the auctioneer.  You have to repeat the same quests so many times that you get sick of them, and I found that the clerics either felt like they were the most important members of the team and you HAD to listen to them, or they were battle clerics and couldn't be bothered to heal anyone. The people all seemed pretty friendly, except for the clerics who, for the most part, were a bunch of elitist snobs. Mages do too much damage for a fighter to keep aggro off of them, and fighter taunts are almost completely ineffective.  It's an issue of the GM's trying to make each class capable of soloing, in a game where no one solos, and no one even knows the definition of 'support' class. That and the PvP is a joke. If you aren't a Mage or a Cleric, don't bother. Turbine should have stuck by AC2 rather than ripping it's costumers off, then making a bunch of niche' games. DDO has already done a server merge, and I feel it is headed for the recycle bin with AC2 pretty soon.

Everything you said there is not entirely true, and giving people who might look at it negative thoughts.

 

DDO was not designed for PvP at all and hopefully never will. I do not believe it is a niche game, over 2 years, it has doubled in content since launch... That's something to be very proud of. Clerics are not needed at all, in fact, most of my Permadeath play is without a cleric or any healing class. DDO focuses on tactics more than roles of classes. Taunting in DDO is a skill (Intimidate) not a given ability like in other MMO's. There are TONS of people who solo in DDO, what are you talking about? Also, level 7 you havent even raided yet.. Raids in DDO take tactics to a new level and everyone must cooperate or else you fail.

Perhaps giving DDO another look with a more optimistic side and hitting raiding levels may change your mind, but even if it doesn't, players that don't appreciate DDO for what it gives that other MMO's have never touched should not be playing, so if that is the case, so be it.

Yeah. I'm not here to argue, or even defend my position, I just gave what my thoughts were after playing the game for a little over a month. I may not have had the same experience as other people, but I related the experiences I had in my own way, with my own words, so that it may discourage others who are looking at the game from playing it. Not because I have a personal grudge against the game, as much as it may look like I do, but in order to give a balanced critique of the game for others who may be thinking about playing it. Do I have to start all of my sentences with; In my opinion? Yeah, quests have solo settings, but *in my opinion* the xp you get from doing quests solo is pretty weak. Yes, you can do quests solo, or even on easy dif without a cleric, but if you are playing the game to get to the levels where you can 'raid' then you will want to group in order to level faster, and if you are playing on elite without a cleric or a healer and you are surviving, then my hat is off to you, because from my experience it's impossible. Is DDO any worse than most of the games out there? No. If this was the WoW forum I'd be ranting about how much I hate that game. But this is DDO, and I don't hate it,  just don't care for it. Maybe had I stuck around long enough to get into a good guild, or any guild at all, I would have had a better time. But I was pretty much just casually trying the game out for something to do in my spare time, and these were the impressions that I got.

Figure I would follow up here sense this was the article after all that got my interest back up. WOW guys what a change! I am very pleased with this game now, the only thing I can say is , if you ever liked it but was like me in the aspects of  "its missing that certain something" and "where is the dam solo content!" and finally "whats with all the kids!" now it's great :)

So far having a blast and have even gotten to places I have never been before, suprisingly allot of people I am meeting are now the older folks, who like me, don't rush the game to level out, but enjoy it for the story, immersion and versititly no other game offers.

With all the new stuff, this will keep me busy for sometime to come, very happy about this because now any interest in my AOC or WAR is out the window. I thought POTBS was good in beta, it just flopped in retail for me, so I am loving this one thou.

You old timers out there, if you ever thought about coming back, this is the time, oh and population? wow allot of people all the time amazingly, actually really fun!

salu!