General Discussion

Last week I did something I thought I would never ever do again. I resubbed to Ultima Online.  Why you ask, would I do such an insane thing? The answer is simple: I wanted to go retro for a bit because I'm totally disillusioned with modern games.  I don't necessairly think I've 'solved' my gaming boredom 'problems' per say but so far its been far more fun then I anticipated.

Frankly, the new games just don't hold a candle to the feelings of the old days.  Thats not to say that the old games presently running (necessairly) hold a candle to themselves either but I began to get curious and finally willing to part with 20 bucks just to see. 

Many forum posts, on these forums in particular, suggest a number of reasons why, in present times, there are so many gamers unable to rekindle that mmorpg gaming feeling of old.  Some attribute desensitization, others suggest lackluster games that offer nothing truly new.  One of the favorite cop-outs for the spoon fed, kill X fedex style games of modern times is the 'you'll never recreate that first kiss feeling' (which is true to some extend but not a valid defacto answer to cover all the aspects of the cookie cutter model that has been born from the first gen games).  In fact I think there are many reasons and I don't think there is one smoking gun....I also understand the feelings or lack thereof to be entirely subjective.  Yet, I know there is a big sub-community of people that feel the way I do.  It lead me to an interesting question - what has really changed in 10 years of gaming?  What new concepts have been added, and what has been retained from the old days?  The short answer for me is the treadmill approach that everyone uses these days.  Most modern games put you on a set of rails from level 1 on.  Games like Everquest and Ultima Online had no point, you were on your own to forge your own.  Most modern mmos with some bright exceptions, are entirely and absoultely task driven.  The point, is the task. 

I understand that there are more people playing mmos' (a LOOTTTT more) today than 5 years ago.  This in turn means a whole generation of mmo gamers that did not have CR's in EQ or have to live through the PK ganks in UO.  So today's games are new to many, and in 10 years someone who is just starting to become a mmo gaming enthusaist now may very well have a post similar to this one.

I think little has changed except things that don't benefit the consumer.  Like the rest of our consumer society we, as consumers of these products are brainwashed into accepting lower quality standards.  The developers haven't done much to advance the genre really and lean on core game concepts invented by their fathers coupled with concepts that make their life easier.  I also think that there are a lot of newb developers out there that have been themselves brain washed into thinking 'this is gaming'.

The modern mmorpg development template seems geared towards ease of implementation and less to do with making a good roleplaying game. Rather, content is serialized and the patterns emerge very quickly that we, as gamers call 'The Grind'.

We almost need a new subset to define the games that the original mmo crowd fell in love with. 

Flame me now - got my fire resists up.

We have come a long way since the advent of the Online Gaming. There are some who may not lke the direction and where we are currently at. But , as a guy who played MUDS, and who thought that graphical online games were a deam at 4800 baud..I can tell you I am very happy with what we have now.

A lot of what youve written appears to be based on WoW. Make little doubt, WoW is not the end point of MMORPGs. It is not the gold standard. It is a step along the path. When the history of MMORPGs is written the contribution of WoW will not be in Game inovation but in its ability to expand the playerbase to a huge degree and bring MMORPGs into mainstream awareness. A big reason they did this is by the 'dumbing down" of the complexities that can exist within these games.

HOwever, nnot only is such a large MMORPG audiance created,  they are also now educated. And thus, the industry has a fantastic oportunity to build much more complex and robust games. There are players who miss the feeling of the old days UO, EQ1, etc. But those players were the trailblazers ...the few who stepped into an unknown and untested frontier of gaming and helped establish the foundation of what we have now. Of course, todays feelings wont compare to that. HOwever the new gamers now entering the genre are now experiencing things for the first time. 10 years from now they may be saying "God, I just dont get the same feelign I got when I first played WoW, etc"

Torrential

Some MMO have evolved a lot for the better, others are just terrible in my eyes and I absolutely detest them  XD lol.

I like how they lessened the grind in some games, that they're more stable, offer better controls, UI's and chat options.

I dislike the way games go F2P with item shops, I hate the guild creations before MMO even start, the 'status', the importance of lvl's etc..

Shrug, have a dislike for certain MMO , their community and players, and love others and feel they have progressed.

The last 10 years?

Instead of having a few excellent games, with got many crap ones copying each other.

I have been playing Ultima Online for the past 3 months now and I'm loving it.  As an old UO Vet, I really like the Kingdom Reborn client.  Even though the game is 10 years old i think it still has more to it then current mmo's.

It's a sandbox game.  I think that is what is missing in most new mmo's.  MMO company's today are really good at making a game where you get to focus on doing 2-3 main things like leveling and fighting but that's where it stops.  It can be very pollished but shallow at the same time.  Ultima is loaded with all kinds of other things you can focus on.  I also think a skill based system is more robust then level based.   

Just my thoughts, but I'm glad to be playing Kingdom Reborn... It's like driving around you favorite old car that just got a new coat of paint. 

-Pkpie

Unfortuneatly some games that may have been great games had very bad launches. Vanguard for example has some intresting game play but was very clunky, unstable from the start. The games is better now but to many people have a bad taste in their mouth so they won't go back. Companies only get one shot to launch and if you launch an unplayable game your pretty much sunk. It would seem that many companies have been in such a hurry to get the game out that they miss the basics in their attempt to make something new.

Players are more savvy and the internet has made players more informed.

This being said coming out with a game that is revoultionary is not safe. Coming out with a WoW clone is safe, at least from a marketing department stand point. What marketing departments fail to realize is that there is only one WoW and no one will recreate that kind of population.

Hopefully games like AoC have learned a lesson, better to delay  and release a stable game than to scre up the launch, but even here they have delayed twice so we shall have to see how people react when they do launch.

we peaked twice, later 90s then again around 2003-2004 then have fallen a long, long way

Nice read.

While mmo's have moved forward in graphic capability I don't feel they have took a large leap in creativity.  There are many directions mmorpgs can take to reach a desired playerbase.  Whether a compnay is going to try to find a medium within that content is the question.  Players play mmorpgs to have fun and control over a environment.  There have been mmo's in the past that  are based more on player environment control.  Games like UO, or shadowbane gave players more freedom.  While they were really revolutionary in some terms there is a limit that needs to be struck with player freedom that needs to be found.  While you knock wow for not being revolutionary they did start alot that the mmorpg world took note of.  They improved in small basic aspects of mmorpgs all the way from item management , to the quest system design. It is a standard mmorpg developers are basing those things off of.   Then there is the issue of content design and server/online  performance.  The human mind as far as creativity has no limit but to implement it into a playable online game design is another hurdle.  Instancing helps in performance but takes away the feel of a online world to a degree.  There are a few developers working hard to try to mend player control/ game content and pvp now.  I think players are looking for that blend but whether that game succeeds is going to be based mainly on the server performance. 

Im not a fan of wow but I will admit they did allot very well. While I dont think they pioneered instancing ( maybe microsofts Mythica thought of it) they were the first to put good use to it.

I feel every player should try at least one mmorpg from each design (questing, pvp based, etc...) to try and get a idea of what "their best mmorg "  could be.

Developers are learning from mistakes it just depends on if they can pull the players in the future.  The market is getting saturated with duds that cause publishers to hesitate greatly.  The whole system is based of money and allot of companies have dropped games feeling that the playerbase would be insufficient  ex: Ultima X odyssey, UO 2, Mythica. long lis t. 

There is a good podcast on straybulletgames website that discusses player freedom and server issues. Not to sound like a fanboy but I feel in the past decade Shadowbane pioneered more any others. Though they failed in a questing system for sure but thats why developers are learning from every game made.

Originally posted by Czzarre

We have come a long way since the advent of the Online Gaming. There are some who may not lke the direction and where we are currently at. But , as a guy who played MUDS, and who thought that graphical online games were a deam at 4800 baud..I can tell you I am very happy with what we have now.

A lot of what youve written appears to be based on WoW. Make little doubt, WoW is not the end point of MMORPGs. It is not the gold standard. It is a step along the