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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » What's the most hardcore MMO out there?

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107 posts found
  JK-Kanosi

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/15/06
Posts: 1359

1/15/08 7:13:27 PM#41

Originally posted by Xenduli

Tough question if you stop to think about it, because a lot of the MMO's now are casual friendly. Is Vanguard the most hardcore right now? [my PC can't handle it, oh well] My first thought was EVE-Online, but actually it isn't because there is no "grinding" as such, yet the PvP part is arguably the harshest.

Just want to get an idea what everyone thinks is still the most hardcore MMO, in terms of everything, PvP, 'accessible' etc. I guess when AoC is released that could be called hardcore [but that's a different type of hardcore :p].

Does an MMO with a lower population make it more hardcore, because the economy is bonkers, there aren't enough players and resources?

 

I'd say Lineage 2 is the hardest core MMORPG out there and I would like anyone to show me a harder game.

PvE- Huge grind, can delevel, can be killed at any time by anyone.

PvP- Open PvP, can be killed at anytime by anyone.

Economy- Gear is severely expensive and most can't afford it without buying gold. Gold is hard to come by and you never have enough to fully outfit yourself and keep up on SS.

 

EvE has raw PvP like L2, but it doesn't have a PvE grind and the economy is actually balanced so that you can afford something at reasonable times.

MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW

Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.

  Pynda

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/20/04
Posts: 682

1/16/08 4:30:52 AM#42


Originally posted by SaintViktor
I don't think there is a hardcore mmo. Most mmos are more time over skill anyway.


Yes, I dislike the term hardcore as well because you'd think it should apply to MMORPGs a 'hardcore gamer' would enjoy. But the popular context seems to involve only which mmo has the most brainless and brutally punishing leveling curve.

Is that what you're asking us for?

  Adamantine

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/07/08
Posts: 3307

War is not the ultima ratio, but the ultima irratio - Willy Brandt

1/16/08 5:17:15 AM#43

Great ! Thats the thread I wanted to start myself ! :D

 

Well - I play Vanguard and I have played Lineage 2, though the later mostly, uh, on freeshards, because the original game, really, no thank you ! I'm all for the challenge but at some point it becomes masochism - and I'm no masochist.

If you seriously claim that Vanguard is harder than Lineage 2, then you're out of your mind, and that really completely - or havent played both games. It's so easy to get your stuff in Vanguard ! People get to maxlevel in this game in like a month. Some people even in a week !

Of course, Vanguard lacks any serious PvP right now. There is PvP on one server, but its totally not a game element as is, only some kind of childish banditery. Ugh. I would rather go for castle sieges and clan wars, thank you very much !

Maybe I'm biased there. But whenever I check maxlevel players equipment in Vanguard, they usually have simply brilliant stuff. Its really not that hard to get it. Do a bit harvest and you get the glory in, like, no time. Compared to Lineage 2, anyway.

And the fights ... in Vanguard, you really can solo ! Of course not EVERYWHERE - some places are simply too tough. And not with every class. An on highlevel, i.e. around level 40, on, its really getting harder. But even then, if you choose one of the solofriendly classes, you can really solo a lot. Plus, there is NO class in Vanguard that isnt group friendly. If people dont group with you, they're just stupid.

In Lineage 2... on my Shillien Elder, I got killed by mobs which where so much below my level that I wouldnt have received ANY xp from killing them. And they still slaughtered me easily !

 

As a sidenote, swinging your sword costs only money in Lineage 2 as long as you use "soul shots". Now soul shots double the damage you deal, so obviously they are VERY desireable. But you dont HAVE to use them - in the end its just an option.

 

A lot of people mention EVE and FFXI here... sadly both games are completely off my radar as I'm totally into the classic fantasy thing with magic, elves, and dragons and stuff like that.

  Adamantine

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/07/08
Posts: 3307

War is not the ultima ratio, but the ultima irratio - Willy Brandt

1/16/08 5:20:32 AM#44

Now about "what is a hardcore game" ?

Well I have to say I would define it as:

- complex

- rich

- hard

- varied

Meaning: You have a complex set of tools that a allow a rich set of strategies. Of this set of strategies, you meet varied challenges which have to be solved individually. And, finally, the game is simply hard - you dont succeed if you fail to find the right strategy.

  User Deleted
1/16/08 5:35:47 AM#45

As a sidenote, swinging your sword costs only money in Lineage 2 as long as you use "soul shots". Now soul shots double the damage you deal, so obviously they are VERY desireable. But you dont HAVE to use them - in the end its just an option.

 

But that is truely a masochist option and just about impossible to level in a practical way in L2 without SS. I played L2 for a long time and really, its just not a real option for a player. (unless you are being PL'ed by your guild mates or something)

 

  Cryotech

Novice Member

Joined: 7/06/07
Posts: 32

1/16/08 5:41:20 AM#46

L2 is by far the most hardcore of them all.

Second pick would be L1, from what I know noone reached the max level yet (if there is one) and the game has been out for like what? 8 years?

 

  VirgoThree

Tipster

Joined: 12/09/03
Posts: 1222

FFXIV:ARR, Malboro Server, Scarlet Raven

1/16/08 6:18:57 AM#47

I have to agree that L2 is the most hardcore of the MMO's out at the moment. The developers designed it as a hardcore game in mind from the beginning, and it definitely shows. Leveling is painfully slow, acquiring money is even more painful, and FFA pvp on all servers to my knowledge. Additionally, you have a chance of dropping a random item, and you lose a decent percentage of exp on death.

If you want to make the game even more hardcore try to play all the way through as a dwarf. The money grind won't be as painful, but level grinding will be even worse.

  binary_0011

Novice Member

Joined: 12/01/04
Posts: 539

Use your common sense.

1/16/08 7:32:34 AM#48

Originally posted by VirgoThree

I have to agree that L2 is the most hardcore of the MMO's out at the moment. The developers designed it as a hardcore game in mind from the beginning, and it definitely shows. Leveling is painfully slow, acquiring money is even more painful, and FFA pvp on all servers to my knowledge. Additionally, you have a chance of dropping a random item, and you lose a decent percentage of exp on death.

If you want to make the game even more hardcore try to play all the way through as a dwarf. The money grind won't be as painful, but level grinding will be even worse.

you dont drop item now unless your karma is 5 and above.

 

 

binary0011 Xfire Miniprofile
  Aphex

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/04
Posts: 194

1/17/08 8:40:31 AM#49

 

Originally posted by Adamantine

A lot of people mention EVE and FFXI here... sadly both games are completely off my radar as I'm totally into the classic fantasy thing with magic, elves, and dragons and stuff like that.

 

  Orca

Novice Member

Joined: 11/21/03
Posts: 608

Helbreath Veteran
Dark & Light Pioneer
World of Warcraft Gladiator
VG:SoH Quitter

1/17/08 9:01:59 AM#50


Originally posted by zaxtor99

Originally posted by paulscott
real life.
forced perma death, learning new skills takes a lot of time, officially having those skills so you can rise on the class ranking can cost the upwards and beyond 40,000 per year, cybering can also involve getting a baby which you then have to take care of for the next 20 something years.

Yeh, but I hate it when you can't cast magic spells like fireballs and ice blasts from your bare hands, and "real life" just doesn't have that kinda magic system in place. No fun! Graphics are top-notch tho! LOL.


- Zaxx


Try second life then... or Doughs'(from The Office) Second Second life...

Futilez - Mature MMORPG Community

Correcting people since birth.

  Skranken

Novice Member

Joined: 6/30/03
Posts: 94

8/26/09 10:38:52 AM#51

Well said. Think alot of people misunderstand the meaning of hardcore here..

Example of a few hardcore mmo's are : Everquest 1 , Anarchy Online and Asherons Call as mentioned above.

Thats a few complex oldskool mmo's that takes time to master, and you wont find alot of  "WTF ROFL PWN kidz" begging for gold, but more mature players.

  Ackbar

Novice Member

Joined: 6/22/04
Posts: 918

its a tarp!

8/26/09 11:22:51 AM#52

Darkfall is the most hardcore i've played in a while. UO when you could steal peoples house keys was up there.

----ITS A TRAP!!!----

  User Deleted
8/26/09 11:59:03 AM#53
Originally posted by Sheista

EVE and FFXI.  Either is harder than the other but in different aspects.

 

Agreed. L2 is up there as well in both PvE grind and PvP gameplay, but the past few years it's been getting a lot more casual friendly in both regards.

  Jockan

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/03/08
Posts: 4078

8/26/09 12:01:43 PM#54

Lineage 2 is the defintion of Hard Core. I cant think if anything easy about that game.

  User Deleted
8/26/09 12:02:46 PM#55
Originally posted by Skranken

Well said. Think alot of people misunderstand the meaning of hardcore here..

Example of a few hardcore mmo's are : Everquest 1 , Anarchy Online and Asherons Call as mentioned above.

Thats a few complex oldskool mmo's that takes time to master, and you wont find alot of  "WTF ROFL PWN kidz" begging for gold, but more mature players.

 

Actually, 'hardcore' is just a degree of playstyle and not any one playstyle, but for the sake of discussion I think most people here are all on the same page - posting games which are designed around content for people that like that more extreme degree of their particular playstyle.

  Silvermink

Novice Member

Joined: 6/07/07
Posts: 289

8/26/09 12:02:56 PM#56
Originally posted by Skranken

Well said. Think alot of people misunderstand the meaning of hardcore here..

Example of a few hardcore mmo's are : Everquest 1 , Anarchy Online and Asherons Call as mentioned above.

Thats a few complex oldskool mmo's that takes time to master, and you wont find alot of  "WTF ROFL PWN kidz" begging for gold, but more mature players.

 

Everquest used to be hardcore. It is quite easy now.

  linren

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/25/09
Posts: 583

8/26/09 12:08:51 PM#57

The term hardcore is not even really well defined especially in the MMORPG community.  Hardcore is more of an expression and often exaggeration that can be directed to just about anything.

Even the OP openly admit there are different types of hardcore, which give me a very hard time to form any type of answer.

Just can't give an informed answer this way.

  Eyrothath

Novice Member

Joined: 9/01/08
Posts: 198

8/26/09 7:49:51 PM#58

It has to be Darkfall Online.. No explanation needed.


Full loot at death, extreme penalties for killing players unwanted, one character per server, able to max out all skills, skill decay, item decay when used, they will even break if you repair too much, a combat simulator, and the hardest damn game to aim in, and you have to click and drag items to your pack, slowly..  Sea battles, boat to land sieges, boat to boat, your boat can sink (you will lose it) And you die with your boat when ti does sink.. You can tare down cities with boats, and there is mounted combat (you can kill a player mount while a player is riding them.)

 

It does not get more hardcore than that.. Although Darkfall has bad performance, horrible support, horrible community, and bad animations(not graphics), and a huge empty world with no life. This was the turn-off.. Other than that, the most hardcore game I ever played.

  ElderRat

Novice Member

Joined: 9/30/10
Posts: 909

11/13/10 4:19:00 PM#59
Originally posted by Arclan

Eve CAN be difficult, but also note that to get to max level in Eve requires only that you log on 30 seconds a day to change which skill your subconscious is training.  You can get to max level witout ever leaving your initial spawn point in the space station.  If you want gear and riches; that's more work.

L2 sounds like it's very tough.  I was going to mention Everquest as the most hardcore (even though leveling is MUCH easier nowadays).

 Could be wrong but I do not think every skillbook is available in every station, and without money to buy them you are stuck. True you can buy a sub for cash and sell it as plex for money but there are risks there too.   I admit the skilling up is static but that is not the essence of the game.   Going out there and mining without being ripped off, or going out there and ripping off miners without dying, those are thigns that are the essence of EVE - and just the minor ones. Where else can you get some of the drama that has occured in EVE?    It is very hardcore, which is why I only play it like 3-4 months at a time, then I get too competitve in real life.

Currently bored with MMO's.

  ElderRat

Novice Member

Joined: 9/30/10
Posts: 909

11/13/10 4:21:49 PM#60
Originally posted by linren

The term hardcore is not even really well defined especially in the MMORPG community.  Hardcore is more of an expression and often exaggeration that can be directed to just about anything.

Even the OP openly admit there are different types of hardcore, which give me a very hard time to form any type of answer.

Just can't give an informed answer this way.

 Hardcore is an opinion.  To some people Maple Story might be hardcore.  To  me hardcore involves having a sense of paranoia whenever other players are around.  Hardcore means if you are not careful all your hardwork resulted in a benefit for someone else and you are dead.  That's hardcore to me.   An old game called Shadowbane was my favorite hardcore game.  When we had a group out farming we had to have another group with us to fight off the other players who wanted our loot.

Currently bored with MMO's.

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