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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » What's the most hardcore MMO out there?

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107 posts found
  savagebeast

Novice Member

Joined: 7/10/07
Posts: 15

1/14/08 2:57:33 PM#21

it's either between EVE and FFXI.

 

I remember once dying in FFXI and lost all of the exp that took me 4 hours to get... it was really harsh at the lower levels where transportation took hours. The game has a unforgiving system for grinding (I enjoyed it) and working towards gear...

 

I don't know enough about EVE from personal experience, but I've heard good things from friends.

  Arclan

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/29/07
Posts: 1372

"Ideas are worthless. The only currency that holds any weight is the ability and drive to execute."

1/14/08 3:20:53 PM#22

Eve CAN be difficult, but also note that to get to max level in Eve requires only that you log on 30 seconds a day to change which skill your subconscious is training.  You can get to max level witout ever leaving your initial spawn point in the space station.  If you want gear and riches; that's more work.

L2 sounds like it's very tough.  I was going to mention Everquest as the most hardcore (even though leveling is MUCH easier nowadays).

Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
video game company layoffs are twice the national average.

  Sheista

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/30/05
Posts: 1204

1/14/08 3:30:43 PM#23

Originally posted by Arclan

Not to hate on Eve, but Eve is potentially the easiest game in the history of games.  The *only* thing you need to do to get to max level is to log on for 30 seconds once a day to change which skill your subconscious is training.  Your character can get to max level without moving one inch from your initial spawning point (inside a space station).  If you want gear and riches; that's more work.

L2 sounds like it's very tough.  I was going to mention Everquest as the most hardcore (even though leveling is MUCH easier nowadays).

Um, no.  You couldn't get to max 'level' without playing the game.  How do you suppose you're going to make the money to buy these skills?  They go up significantly in price later on.  You don't just magically start with all the skills and just tell them to train.  You start with a handful of skills and purchase your next ones, which often have prerequisites that are other skills.

Not only that, but you're thinking in very straight forward and narrow terms - That being only character advancement.  You haven't taken into account how hard the game is to even learn.  You haven't taken into account the penalties for dying, which can easily set you back several days or more if you aren't prepared.  You haven't taken into account game mechanics, which can fall under 'learning'.  There are many mechanics that players who are even a year old in the game still don't know how to use to their advantage, and which were discovered mostly by other players over time.

But that's going past your original point - in that you can supposedly train from start to finish sitting in your station doing nothing.  Which is simply not true in any way.  You would have to play the game in order to gain the finances to advance your character, and in order to best earn finances you will have to better equip and skill yourself.  They each need each other to function better.

Don't tell me your idea of playing a game is to not actually play it.  My advancement in EVE may happen even while I'm logged off, but when I log on and actually play the game every day, it is very challenging and rewarding.  The fact that my character advances while I'm offline is simply to make things slightly easier.  It doesn't take away from the fact that it will still take me a long time and effort, and a lot of money to get where I want to go in the game.

  Myzery78

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/06/05
Posts: 17

1/14/08 3:38:59 PM#24
Originally posted by Sheista

 

Originally posted by Arclan

Not to hate on Eve, but Eve is potentially the easiest game in the history of games.  The *only* thing you need to do to get to max level is to log on for 30 seconds once a day to change which skill your subconscious is training.  Your character can get to max level without moving one inch from your initial spawning point (inside a space station).  If you want gear and riches; that's more work.

L2 sounds like it's very tough.  I was going to mention Everquest as the most hardcore (even though leveling is MUCH easier nowadays).

 

Um, no.  You couldn't get to max 'level' without playing the game.  How do you suppose you're going to make the money to buy these skills?  They go up significantly in price later on.  You don't just magically start with all the skills and just tell them to train.  You start with a handful of skills and purchase your next ones, which often have prerequisites that are other skills.

Not only that, but you're thinking in very straight forward and narrow terms - That being only character advancement.  You haven't taken into account how hard the game is to even learn.  You haven't taken into account the penalties for dying, which can easily set you back several days or more if you aren't prepared.  You haven't taken into account game mechanics, which can fall under 'learning'.  There are many mechanics that players who are even a year old in the game still don't know how to use to their advantage, and which were discovered mostly by other players over time.

But that's going past your original point - in that you can supposedly train from start to finish sitting in your station doing nothing.  Which is simply not true in any way.  You would have to play the game in order to gain the finances to advance your character, and in order to best earn finances you will have to better equip and skill yourself.  They each need each other to function better.

Don't tell me your idea of playing a game is to not actually play it.  My advancement in EVE may happen even while I'm logged off, but when I log on and actually play the game every day, it is very challenging and rewarding.  The fact that my character advances while I'm offline is simply to make things slightly easier.  It doesn't take away from the fact that it will still take me a long time and effort, and a lot of money to get where I want to go in the game.


While he may have simplified things, his point is still basically solid. The more expensive skills still dont cost all that much. Just a month ago I dumped 100m on an alt and started his skills training. All the advanced learning skills I bought didnt take much out of that cash, and one lucky implant drop paid for it all.

  Sheista

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/30/05
Posts: 1204

1/14/08 3:42:35 PM#25

You're still playing the game with another character though to support the second, correct?  Thus, you're still playing the game.

He's looking at the game as if people never intended to play it and saying since one aspect of the game is easy, the entire thing is then easy.  Or at least, that's how it certainly came off.

 

Edit:  And that's assuming someone is at the point where they can just drop that much money on a character.  It would be literally impossible if you were not playing the game at some point, especially to support a character well past only a few months worth of training.  Nobody just starting the game is going to be able to drop that kind of money like it's nothing for a long time.  And certainly not by sitting in their starting station and setting skills to train instead of playing the game as it's meant to be.

  Myzery78

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/06/05
Posts: 17

1/14/08 3:57:20 PM#26

Not really relevant to the discussion but actually no, Im not playing it. I just log on to train my skills, and probably wont actually play for a month or two more. Training up the learning skills is a pain, but then thats true of the skill system. Having to maintain an account for 6-9 months before I can actually do what I want is a little rediculous.

  Shoal

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/30/04
Posts: 1163

1/14/08 3:59:40 PM#27

.

  narakuu

Novice Member

Joined: 5/25/04
Posts: 353

1/14/08 4:02:54 PM#28

FF XI . Required ALOT of time, dedication and patience but accomplishing things has never felt as rewarding as in this game so far for me.

  ThomasN7

Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/07
Posts: 6656

"Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong.” - Mordin Solus

1/14/08 4:04:21 PM#29

I don't think there is a hardocre mmo. Most mmos are more time over skill anyway. There isn't a mmo that anyone can't complete, it is just a matter of how long it takes to complete it.  It is all about the fun long journey it takes to complete the game.

  User Deleted
1/14/08 4:47:53 PM#30

Originally posted by Torak

Lineage 2 will kick your as* backwards and forwards...twice...then again for fun. Its made by people who hate you and want you to suffer.

Everything is hardcore in L2. F*cking swinging your sword cost money.

 


LOL.. ya I definitely agree with Torak. 

btw.. hes not joking.. swinging your sword does cost money

  User Deleted
1/14/08 4:56:01 PM#31

Originally posted by METALDRAG0N
stuff

Yea the Dev team says that there is a bug in the F.A.I.T.H system that was around since patch No. 0001 BC which was patched in when the last Messiah heroic class died.

everyone loves the dev team.

  Hades_Warpig

Novice Member

Joined: 8/10/07
Posts: 225

1/14/08 4:56:28 PM#32

EvE

  abecame

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/14/08
Posts: 5

1/14/08 9:38:52 PM#33

Been trolling a while, figured id jump in...

 

I gotta ask, I played the eve trial and I thought it was a little boring. It seems like the best way to make money was to mine. Whats so great about that? The mines don't exactly fight back you know.  Actually it seems like that was the best way to really make money... mine? Am I wrong about that?

I didn't play for long, so if someone can clue me in one whats so great about EVE i'd like to know.

 

  WarV

Novice Member

Joined: 4/27/06
Posts: 6

1/14/08 9:56:44 PM#34

Originally posted by abecame

Been trolling a while, figured id jump in...

 

I gotta ask, I played the eve trial and I thought it was a little boring. It seems like the best way to make money was to mine. Whats so great about that? The mines don't exactly fight back you know.  Actually it seems like that was the best way to really make money... mine? Am I wrong about that?

I didn't play for long, so if someone can clue me in one whats so great about EVE i'd like to know.

 

There you would be wrong. Mining is not the best way to make money by a long shot. Its just the easiest for newbies because like you said, them mines don't bit back like alot of other stuff does.

The best way to make money in Eve would be to sell items like ships, weapons, and the such. This is why most people mine, so they can build stuff to sell. Mining and selling the ore gives you very little when you compare it to how much you can make when you build. Although you need the skills to build stuff.

I believe a better way to make money in Eve when you first start out is with missions or rating, since it teaches you the basics of fighting and you can make better money.

(Actaully the best way to make money is to pirate, but noobs can't do that to well ;D )

 

  Xerpherion

Novice Member

Joined: 8/21/07
Posts: 28

1/14/08 10:01:27 PM#35

Mining is a good way to make money in eve, buts its not the best, and by far not the most fun. If you try mine in a lowwer sec space you will find that occasionalt rats will spawn (bad npcs!) and attack you while your trying to mine. The best way of making money on eve i found was to do the high level missions or go vigil anti and start hutning pirates, although you have to be fairly well equiped to do either. I'v heard from some people that piracy was a good way to make money but iv never seen how myself, as for the EVE trial its very limited in what it lets you do, it doesent by far give you enough time to develop a half decent character and do some of the more fun thing in the game like PvP, i found it to be like alot of game demos, but even more restricting as the progress you can make in that time usually isent enough to allow you to do alot of things ( succesfully anyways )

  rikilii

Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/05
Posts: 1089

1/14/08 10:19:20 PM#36

Originally posted by Sharajat
Originally posted by zaxtor99

 


Originally posted by paulscott
real life.
forced perma death, learning new skills takes a lot of time, officially having those skills so you can rise on the class ranking can cost the upwards and beyond 40,000 per year, cybering can also involve getting a baby which you then have to take care of for the next 20 something years.

 

Yeh, but I hate it when you can't cast magic spells like fireballs and ice blasts from your bare hands, and "real life" just doesn't have that kinda magic system in place. No fun! Graphics are top-notch tho! LOL.


- Zaxx

Really?  Most of the screenshots I've seen seem 'shopped.    

I'm a level 68 mage IRL, but I can't afford to train any new spells.

My only current ones are:

1.  Under Water-walking

2.  Flammable gas cloud of death

3.  Vanishing Chicken (aka "hide the sausage")

____________________________________________
im to lazy too use grammar or punctuation good

  User Deleted
1/14/08 10:31:59 PM#37

Sorry, but EVE is far from Hardcore.  Now I understand that for some, it IS the hardest game they've played. But having played EVE and many other MMOs, it's rather tame.

If you want Hardcore PvP, I'd say WWIIOnline (which I'm partial to). It is very unforgiving to mistakes, and takes real personal skill and extensive knowledge of real-world equipment to be successful.

EQ1 was the hardest PvE MMO I've played, but I'm quite sure the Asian grinders put it to shame. Definitely L2 or Final Fantasy would likely beat it, though I've not played either.

Entropia Universe is an interesting entry into this catagory that I hadn't considered.

  Orihuela

Novice Member

Joined: 1/11/06
Posts: 115

1/15/08 10:26:12 AM#38

Originally posted by Xenduli

Great choices so far (Esp RL ha-ha!!).

Just been reading up on FFXI, is that the only MMO where you can actually lose levels?

Hmm are there no raids or "partys" in FFXI?

As I said, Lineage II
You can lose levels, money to do a single hit, you can lose exp if someone kill you (free pvp/pk), you can lose your life playing this game!

Orihuela Xfire Miniprofile
  mindw0rk

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/31/06
Posts: 1361

1/15/08 6:56:39 PM#39
Get into EVE Online, train skills, buy expensive ship and fly to 0.0 You'll see what hardcore really means
  Knightblast

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/01/05
Posts: 1799

1/15/08 7:08:36 PM#40

EVE has a hardcore death penalty, but that doesn't mean it's a hardcore game.  It's the kind of game that you can make as hardcore as you like.  You can stay most of the time, or all of the time, in high sec space doing things like trading, manufacturing, running missions and stuff like that and it's a very casual game.  You can go into 0.0 and play the ganking game, and it becomes more hardcore, but even then you can play that aspect of the game casually, because once you know what you are doing it is very easy to avoid being killed.  All you need to do is have the discipline to log off when needed and you're set -- not particularly hardcore.

Don't get me wrong I played EVE a lot from 2004 through 2006.  It can be a very fun game, and a lot of people play it in a very hardcore way.  But you can also play it in a very casual way if you want to, and completely avoid the hardcore aspects of the game.

I'd have to say that some of the Asian games, where things are very grind intensive and/or very group intensive, are probably among the most hardcore ones out there.  But to be honest, MMOs generally are not that hardcore -- unless you take hardcore to mean "lots of time required".

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