Gatecamping coupled with the very high death penalty make EVE a non-starter for me.  I tried a couple of times and both times I got ganked at a gate while doing storyline missions.  You can't stick to safe areas, as the storyline missions send you to low security space. 

As the most successful MMORPGs all have low death penalties and restricted PvP, will EVE see the wrting on the wall and make a non-PvP server?  The non-PvP server would likely have much more traffic than a PvP server, judging from the populations on games that offer both types.

Nope.  EVE's success dwells on the fact that it has only one server.  The game would not function correctly without PvP.  The economy wouldn't exist as it does, and the premise of the game itself would cease to exist - that is, players fighting for control of the universe.

EVE is not the game for you.

Time to move on.

Try Jumpgate or the coming Jumpgate Evolution.

Or Anarchy Online.

Or <Shudder>  SWG.

But forget EVE.  I am afraid you do not 'get it' with that game.

Originally posted by Shoal

EVE is not the game for you.

Time to move on.

Try Jumpgate or the coming Jumpgate Evolution.

Or Anarchy Online.

Or <Shudder>  SWG.

But forget EVE.  I am afraid you do not 'get it' with that game.

I moved on.  Jumpgate evolution looks good, but it isn't out yet.  EVE without PvP would have about ten times the subscriber base that it does, but they seem to like being small. 

EVE has potential, but they are stuck in an old-fashioned paradigm.   I remember when Everquest had the harsh death penalty.  They had their lunch eaten by WoW.  Someone is going to eat EVEs lunch and leave it in the dust.

As said, if these are the things that bother you, then EVE is just not for you.  It appeals to a niche audience for a reason.  The mechanics of the game are there to please this niche audience, and not a large group such as WoW has attracted.

The game is about PvP, whether it be actual combat, or PvP through economics, or just the politics of the game.  You just don't seem to 'get' EVE, which isn't a bad thing.  It just means EVE is not the game for you.

Edit:  And I'd hardly say EVE is doomed.  It has 200k subscribers, with a record of some 40k+ online on a single server at the same time.  For a game the purposely appeals to a selective audience, that is damn impressive.

Eve without PvP does not work. That would mean that there would be close to no economy and close to nothing that makes it worth playing.

PvP is Eves core. It is built around it. The economy only works through constant loss in PvP. The politics only work through PvP. Everything is based on it. You cant just switch it off, it will kill the game.

Eve was inspired by two succesful games: Ultima Online and Elite. That should explain why Eve is the way it is.

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Originally posted by Kulthos

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Originally posted by Shoal

EVE is not the game for you.
Time to move on.
Try Jumpgate or the coming Jumpgate Evolution.
Or Anarchy Online.
Or <Shudder>  SWG.
But forget EVE.  I am afraid you do not 'get it' with that game.

---

I moved on.  Jumpgate evolution looks good, but it isn't out yet.  EVE without PvP would have about ten times the subscriber base that it does, but they seem to like being small. 
EVE has potential, but they are stuck in an old-fashioned paradigm.   I remember when Everquest had the harsh death penalty.  They had their lunch eaten by WoW.  Someone is going to eat EVEs lunch and leave it in the dust.

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Sorry EvE is one of a kind and there will always be players playing it. To be honest i would mind if we could get back to sub numbers from 2 years ago. The community was alot better when we averaged 15k online.

Originally posted by Sheista

As said, if these are the things that bother you, then EVE is just not for you.  It appeals to a niche audience for a reason.  The mechanics of the game are there to please this niche audience, and not a large group such as WoW has attracted.

The game is about PvP, whether it be actual combat, or PvP through economics, or just the politics of the game.  You just don't seem to 'get' EVE, which isn't a bad thing.  It just means EVE is not the game for you.

 

Edit:  And I'd hardly say EVE is doomed.  It has 200k subscribers, with a record of some 40k+ online on a single server at the same time.  For a game the purposely appeals to a selective audience, that is damn impressive.

I agree that EVE will be a niche game until it does something to fix the PvP situation, and cannot hope for a large audience.  It isn't doomed, (the original Everquest is still online) but it is a shadow of what it could be.

Originally posted by Kulthos

 

Originally posted by Sheista

As said, if these are the things that bother you, then EVE is just not for you.  It appeals to a niche audience for a reason.  The mechanics of the game are there to please this niche audience, and not a large group such as WoW has attracted.

The game is about PvP, whether it be actual combat, or PvP through economics, or just the politics of the game.  You just don't seem to 'get' EVE, which isn't a bad thing.  It just means EVE is not the game for you.

 

Edit:  And I'd hardly say EVE is doomed.  It has 200k subscribers, with a record of some 40k+ online on a single server at the same time.  For a game the purposely appeals to a selective audience, that is damn impressive.

 

I agree that EVE will be a niche game until it does something to fix the PvP situation, and cannot hope for a large audience.  It isn't doomed, (the original Everquest is still online) but it is a shadow of what it could be.

I like WoW and still raid there, but Eve is focused on a specific target audience: the mature MMO gamer looking for a world sim instead of just a team co-op monster bash, which is what WoW is in essence.  By 'mature' I mean players that have played other MMOs already, and already know how to tackle an MMO system.  Eve is very rough on brand new MMO players.

While I don't pirate in Eve (yet - not sure if I'm going to or not), I'm glad you can blow up other people's ships and cause havoc.  WoW pvp is just pointless.  Eve pvp has risk, cost, gain, concequence...meaning.  In that same regard, WoW crafting is pretty pointless.  I skill up to max smithing, and I can make one thing that I would ever consider using, which then gets swapped out just 4 weeks later for a drop from the first raid instance.  That's a horrible crafting system.  In Eve, I can build ships that supply my corportation in their war efforts, make money from building, or maybe I buy items when the market is low, melt them, and sell the components.  Eve crafting destroys anything WoW has.

Eve is a world; WoW is a game.  It's not for everyone, and that's kind of the point.

Its terrible when people that dont like PvP go and say PvP MMOs should not have PvP!

So PvP players have maybe 2-4 MMOs to play, and PvE players have maybe 500-100 to play. hmm....

He did not say that. He said they should add a non-pvp server.

"shrugs" Seems ike a good idea to me.

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Originally posted by nethervoid
Eve is very rough on any MMO player.

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Fixed it for you. :)

Originally posted by Kulthos

 

 

I agree that EVE will be a niche game until it does something to fix the PvP situation, and cannot hope for a large audience.  It isn't doomed, (the original Everquest is still online) but it is a shadow of what it could be.

The developers don't think its a shadow of what it could be....game magazines don't think its a shadow of what it could be....game reviewers and its player base certaintly don't.   Infact the developers were overly surprised at how well EVE has done.  They've got their player base and they're more than pleased to cater to only those that love their game...thats right..THEIR game.  THEIR blood sweat and tears.  

For this I applaud them for doing something different, the whole premise that its one giant universe instead of splitting players all up is what makes it truely unique.   EVE is not my cup of tea mind you (infact im a DDO player and I envy EVE for having as large a world and as open sandbox like system as they have, I'm just not into that sort of PvP) I'm not into politics and gank fiestas or playing economy games but I think EVE is a marvelous shining success showing that there are viable options out there besides the PvE heavy mass market.   

EVE is a completely innovative game...to even suggest it should change for a mass market appeal demeans the success it has earned and the hard work of its developers to create something completely different.   There are tons of games that are made for the mass market audience that came into the MMO world with WoW...that doesn't mean they all should be.   EVE is unique and it should be heralded as a shining example that you don't have to be big fat and bloated to keep a steady viable player base.  Most game developers would kill for the steady longterm player numbers that EVE has.

If not a non PvP server than a "reduced death penalty for casual gamers" server.  WoW has great PvP and the low death penalty makes fighting fun.  Getting ganked in EVE and losing an expensive ship and implants is crippling to people with jobs and a family in RL.  One 15 year old can set a casual gamer back weeks.  That is simply not fun.

Originally posted by Kulthos

If not a non PvP server than a "reduced death penalty for casual gamers" server.  WoW has great PvP and the low death penalty makes fighting fun.  Getting ganked in EVE and losing an expensive ship and implants is crippling to people with jobs and a family in RL.  One 15 year old can set a casual gamer back weeks.  That is simply not fun.

.....well atleast now we know your opinion on pvp is worthless.  WoW has the worst pvp system next to Everquest 2 atleast EQ2 has the balls to admit their game is PVE and they're not going to fix PvP.

"WoW has great PvP"

Anyone who says this will almost assuredly not like Eve PvP.  WoW's PvP is a joke, and I'm not even a hardcore PvPer.  Hell even Shadowbane PvP is better.  At least you're fighting for a reason.

Here's how you make Eve PvP more fun: don't suck so much.  Secondly, don't put yourself in harms way until you can afford it.  It's really that simple.

BTW, I'm a casual player.  I have less than 2.5m skill points (read: noob).  I have a 34m ship (read: heavy investment), 40m in implants in my head (read: heavy investment), and 14m in my wallet (read: broke).  Yeah I'm not stupidly flying through low sec looking for a fight...because I can't affort to lose my stuff...yet.

Originally posted by Kulthos

Gatecamping coupled with the very high death penalty make EVE a non-starter for me.  I tried a couple of times and both times I got ganked at a gate while doing storyline missions.  You can't stick to safe areas, as the storyline missions send you to low security space. 

As the most successful MMORPGs all have low death penalties and restricted PvP, will EVE see the wrting on the wall and make a non-PvP server?  The non-PvP server would likely have much more traffic than a PvP server, judging from the populations on games that offer both types.

 

I don't know. I flew into a gate camp this week and escaped (of course I was prepared for it). The next thing I knew my heart was pounding in my chest as I made my getaway. I'm truly amazed at this games ability to take me from  a relaxed state to having my heart just pounding in my chest. I don't think your suggestion will improve upon this in anyway.

What you are suggesting is the same thing as me saying: They should open up a WoW server without any hostile NPC's because picking up flowers and crafting potions is all I want to do.

Btw. it is a mistake to criticize Eve on these forums. Expect a few letter bombs soon ;)

Seriously the destruction of ships and items is the main motor of Eve's economy. Everything is designed with the "harsh" penalty in mind. You cannot just turn it off.

Originally posted by nethervoid

"WoW has great PvP"

Anyone who says this will almost assuredly not like Eve PvP.  WoW's PvP is a joke, and I'm not even a hardcore PvPer.  Hell even Shadowbane PvP is better.  At least you're fighting for a reason.

Have you ever played WoW?  You can live in the battlegrounds and have a blast.  You get much more high quality PvP than you can ever hope for in EVE, as you can have many battles in a row.  In EVE you can't begin to hope for the same number of kills in an evening as on a WoW battleground.  I have had more heart-pounding fun capturing the flag in Warsong Gulch than in EVE.

If you like infrequent and lopsided battles that cost people a lot, then play EVE.  If you want to rack up kills and have fun, play WoW.

I would love to see EVE with a battleground-style arena to enjoy PvP without the grief.  That would be a lot of fun.

Battlegrounds defeats the whole purpose of an MMO game being an RPG...there's nothing role playing at all about capturing the damn flag.  I can buy Unreal Tournament and capture the flag all day long..FREE OF CHARGE and without all the gear, level, and faction grind BS.

WoW's pvp had great potential but they fubar'd it and went the crap route with Battlegrounds.  WoW's pvp is nothing but a big gear trophey epeen grind.  There's nothing MMO or RPG about it at all.

EVE's pvp is atleast immersive and part of the actual game world instead of a silly lil side quest game.