This is something I really miss. There should be an accknowledged Mmorpg aimed at and customized for roleplayers only, integrating roleplay into games like WoW and EQ doesn't really suffice in my opinion. WoW has the advantage of servers dedicated to RP. Roleplaying is officially required, but there is no control at all to ensure that players RP. 70% of the players on those servers don't RP or RP very poorly. In Mmorpgs like GW there are no RP-dedicated servers, and the RPers drown among the regular players. If we had such a game, I think it would solve much of the  harassment of roleplayers problem. After all, I believe very few RP-haters would bother to purchase a whole new game to tell us that we suck.

Graphics are essential to make such a game attractive though. I looked up PlaneShift and it made me very happy, but the graphics were not convincing. To make it a sucess, the developers have to think bigger. Imo, Guild Wars graphics (or similar) suit a possible RP game well.

The character creation sheet shout be put a lot of weight on. While the system in Oblivion may be overdoing it, I might bash WoW a little and say that the character creation options there are below a game with so much potential. I could barely play any male character at all there, they simply looked too horrible for my picky tastes. =P

Character age, choice of bodies (slender/bulky/tall/short) beautiful/less attractive faces, ect are a must. There should also be a wide choice of haircuts and haircolors, option for facial hair, ect. Rather than adding accessories like hairbands and earrings on the chars initally, those should be possible to aquire in the game. Also, all character options should be available to all classes! (GW had a decent character creation sheet, but here was its flaw.)

Outfits/weapons should also be available to all classes and races. (Again; WoW, where the e.g spellcasters cannot use leather or mail. Bothersome!) I once got great amusement of playing a rogue pretending to be a priest on WoW, but this was quickly crushed by "lol, no ur a rogue!!", lack of weapons, ect. A thief with self-respect does not wear sinister masks and black leather in full daylight, a soldier does not wear armor all the time! XP

The game should have lore, and should also have some sort of story, but this should be more like a guideline than the major meaning with the game.

I like the idea of letting each player purchase houses, which can be done with the system in GW, where each player gets a private copy of the explorable areas. Also, PlaneShift came with the most brilliant idea where the player gets the choice of being an adventurer or a normal citizen. Both paths will be rewarded. Sadly, most RPers prefer to play a glorified hero or powerful villain; it would be awesome if more people chose to play something more average.

I also have more far-off ideas like having children, but no real solutions on how it should be done. I believe it would be boring eventually if we had a "Neopets" system for children. NPCs, no matter how advanced, wouldn't make good children.  Maybe it should be an optional class for players?

Another main problem I experienced while playing WoW was the fights. How to ensure that player fights are as fair as possible? The roll-fight system (dice system to see if attack hits or misses) is ridiculous if a combat-experienced char fights a weak char, and the weak char gets lucky rolls. (General VS peasant?)

Simply emoting the actions gives way for power-emotiong, invincible chars.

PvP duels may be the most "fair" thing, but a disadvantage to players who are hopeless at it. (me included.) There should be a way to play good fighters without having to be an expert at PvP strategies.

While there should be a way to ensure that most players on the game stay in character, I don't say that new RPers should have a hard time. Players who repeatly go out of character despite warnings should be banned, but a small intro on roleplay specifically should be put ingame so that those who are willing to try get their chance.

 ~

Just sharing some thoughts with you. Wistful thinking all the way. I don't know if there is even a market for such a game, roleplayers seem to be facing extinction from what I have seen and heard. Although I must admit, for me it seems weird to -not- roleplay or at least speak decently in -any- Mmorpg. Reading "Lol what did u watch on TV??"  when you see characters prepare for a tough run in some ancient temple on the screen gives me the wrong feel. Oh well, maybe I'm just a nutcase. =P

I absolutly agree with you! A game for RPers only would be great.

It would be great because of many features other MMOs don´t have (because the devs, just did not bother themself with "silly" things like different kind of clothes - not only armour, interesting crafting ....) and because people, who are mainly interested in fighting ,would not want to play it anyway. RPers would be left alone and the old and very silly war between RP and Non-RP would be over.

I´d love such a game!

But I would not make this game with different classes. There are better ways to give you more freedom in character development (e.g. skill system). And I would make the game totally  without quests, instances and all the other boring (just monster-slaying) stuff. The fighting system would not be so important. I would not overdo it.

Other features are more important for a RP-centered game, I think. Houses and settlements to build and govern, people to feed and keep healthy, earth quakes and illness and pirate attacks to deal with ....

Would be fun!

I am 100% for this. good post.

One thing that some friends and I have discussed is how we would go about making a game like the White Wolf moderated RP chats and turning it into something that would appeal to RP'ers' visually.

For those not familiar with the moderated chats at White Wolf, you created a character with a backstory and everything and submitted it.  Moderators would review your submission and send you an email telling you if you had been accepted or what they would like you to add/subtract/change in your backstory.  You don't have to be the hero, you could be that bum that sometimes has a piece of juicy information, or a merchant.  Once accepted, you're free to roam around the world (in the form of chat rooms) and role-play.  Combat was few and far between, because it was just more fun to talk your way out of messes.  But when combat did occur it pretty much used the honor system.  You would throw your punches and your opponent would throw theirs, and some would land and others would miss.  No dice, just narrative and emote-type thingies.

That is just the basics of my wanted game system, without throwing in skills and NPC's that would just make my mind explode on a comfy saturday afternoon.

Come back to PlaneShift in a year or so. Many changes are coming. Since the game is done by people as a hobby in their spair time, we can not expect top of the line graphics as quick as pay games with droves of paid artists and coders. If you or anyone you know think they can offer improvements, feel free to come on board.

How about the WoW's and EQ2's etc having RP enforced servers? I would have no problem paying an extra $5 a month for something like this as it would require more resources on their part.

Only thing enforced on RP servers are...uh...hmm..

I don't really know!

Every RP server for most games I've tried(thse that even HAD RP servers) were filled with players that just wanted a less hostile sommunity...not RP.

Good OP, and I agree it would be very nice. The problem you'll run into is one of number of players; to ensure that anyone logging in was at least moderately able and willing to roleplay, you'd need to have some sort of application & approval system in place, as mentioned, and that can be both logistically very difficult to moderate, and generate a lot of bad feeling towards the MMORPG (starting with those who weren't accepted to play, presumeably).
The difficulty in ensuring that your players are all able and mature roleplayers presents itself even on a very small scale (talk to a few Neverwinter Nights PW server admins and you'll see what I mean), where you have 20-40 players or less. To keep things together on a true MMORPG you'd need half as many trusted moderators as there were players.

And there is the consideration of how many people will want to dedicate their time to an application/approval in order to play on a strongly roleplay-centered MMORPG, and whether that would be enough to keep all the moderators, server operators, and so on in the project. I'm certain a large game developer simply wouldn't consider turning down players (read: customers) on the basis of them not being roleplayers.

I don´t think an application would be needed. There are other ways to do this.

-a game developed for role-playing needs (no quests, no instances, no linear story-line but many role-playing features like being able to build settlements with different kind of crafters, clothes that have no stats, no ingame-voice-chat ...)

-no pvp (o.k. I know many role-players like pvp also - but it´s the only way to keep the people out of the game, who are interested in fighting only - one can´t get everything)

-information before people buy the game. Everybody should know, RP is required and what to expect from this game.

-a good tutorial for beginners

-helpful ingame staff for the rp-newbies (but I don´t think it has to be so many and some of the staff could also be recruited from the player base and would not have to be paid)

I think this could work, because who is not interested in rp would not buy this game anyway. You think it sounds boring? No I don´t think so. It would have many many role-players to bring a lot of life and fun into it.

Those are good points... actually, such a game would be likely to attract roleplayers away from other games (where they probably have less opportunity to find good roleplay), and so you could quickly end up with a large and active playerbase. All of the mentioned elements would need to be developed carefully with roleplay in mind, of course, with little or nothing to keep non-roleplayers interested. Recruiting trusted players as "part time" volunteer moderators would definitely help.

Not trying to bash you but you are aware of the development costs a mmo has, arn't you? In other words, it will never happen.

Yes, development costs for an mmo are high. But I see MMOs only as a modern way of entertainment like movies, books, music ... It´s interactive entertainment. Not more and not less.

There are the big mainstream games (like the mainstream movies), but there also could (and should) be niche products for different interests.

One does not need 8 Million players like WoW has, to get economic profit out of an mmo. Only a small part (the rp part) of those players would be enough.

There are also ways to keep the production costs low (e.g. buy an engine) and a niche game does not need to have the coolest grafics in the market, the most advanced fighting-system or the best story line. With this things Rpers are easy to pleasure as long as there is a lot Rp in the game.

Well it's an interesting prospect, even if it won't or can't be done. Are there not already roleplay-heavy MMORPGs out there, though?

Thanks for supply of ideas. =)

Lilalu: I still think there should be some sort of "monster-slaying" element to such a game. While it might be fun to rather focus on becoming a part of the society, maintain your character's home, ect, there is a certain thrill given by running instances teamed up with other players (Why yes, even though very few do this even on RP servers, I had some great time running instances with other hardcore RPers on WoW. Rather than rushing it, we took our time to let our sassy mercenaries and worried clerics speak in between the fights, and even made small camps) Of course, things should work a bit different than on these buttonmash games, and missions should be more than repeatly killing off X number of mobs. Players could also be quest-givers for example?

Having some kind of manual censor-board that filters away "unqualified" Rpers was a thought I played with when running on WoW, but I don't know if it will be necessary for a RP-only mmorpg. As mentioned, I doubt many would bother to purchase such a game if they're not into RP in the first place. Instead I think it would be better if non-cooperative players simply were banned after reaching their warning limit.

Perhaps there should be different servers for this problem though... Some servers for newcomers, where things aren't so strict, (try and fail arena, or simply light RP) and some for those who are really hardcore. 

 Oh, I know monster-slaying can be fun. I like it too, sometimes. But if you focus the game on this and have many monsters to slay, many different quests and even pvp than not only Rpers will want to play the game.

People who just love to fight will be attracted to the game also and we have the same problem again, we see now in the mainstream MMOs. And who will tell them to go away again, when they have paid for it already? I also don´t think different servers will help. Who will control, which player belongs to what server? It does not work in WoW and other MMOs. Why should it work here?

The only way is to produce a game thats interesting for role-players and only for role-players. One can´t have everything in one game.

Of course there could be some events (partly done by the volunteer staff, partly game mechanics), like pirates invading a village, earth quakes, bad harvests, wolfes eating the animals. Things players have to deal with and keep them busy.

And some monsters would be o.k. I guess. A dragon watching over a gold mine, wolfes, sharks as a danger for fishermen ...

But as soon as fighting is the focus the game will be lost for role-players.

Originally posted by Lilalu

 Oh, I know monster-slaying can be fun. I like it too, sometimes. But if you focus the game on this and have many monsters to slay, many different quests and even pvp than not only Rpers will want to play the game.

People who just love to fight will be attracted to the game also and we have the same problem again, we see now in the mainstream MMOs. And who will tell them to go away again, when they have paid for it already? I also don´t think different servers will help. Who will control, which player belongs to what server? It does not work in WoW and other MMOs. Why should it work here?

The only way is to produce a game thats interesting for role-players and only for role-players. One can´t have everything in one game.

Of course there could be some events (partly done by the volunteer staff, partly game mechanics), like pirates invading a village, earth quakes, bad harvests, wolfes eating the animals. Things players have to deal with and keep them busy.

And some monsters would be o.k. I guess. A dragon watching over a gold mine, wolfes, sharks as a danger for fishermen ...

But as soon as fighting is the focus the game will be lost for role-players.

 

Hmm, you are right about that. On the other hand, if the most exciting thing you can do is clear out the trolls in the city sewers, it might easily get tiring. I'm thinking Oblivion here, where the whole society struck me as more than a little dull. (Not a mmorpg, so it can't really be compared. But still - too plain for my tastes.) Yes, I'm childish and still at the stage where a conflict is solved with a good ol' bonk on the head before you run from the authorities, or where you die valiantly holding back a horde of mobs to save your friends. =P Dragons, pirates and trouble, thanks!

 But as you say, quests and instances can tempt Non-RPers and we get a bad WoW copy. Perhaps the solution is if actionbased stuff wasn't (very) rewarding? Mobs certainly shouldnt drop armor/gold, so farming would be pointless. Terms like "epic gear" should be eliminated, a fancy mail armor would perhaps not give the character any other advantages than showing social status?

Just speculating... *shrug* =) Doubt it would help, but maybe. Events certainly sound like a good thing though, frequent and various events!

As for the servers, what I really meant was that they all should be for RPers only, but you could choose between light/hardcore. E.g, if a player is new, he/she would be highly recommended to run on a light RP server first, where it doesn't matter if you make mistakes. Then again, it gives way for chaos if not properly maintained, and who would do that? >_>

I'm thinking dream-game here though. As things are now, I'd be glad if there was just a simple mmorpg for Rpers, with a little better quality than Planeshift.

 A role-playing game with many role-players in it would not be boring. You will be so busy role-playing, you will hardly have time to think about monsters.

The players will invent different stories, whole plots and even epic adventures. It works believe me! And if the players get some help from volunteers and even the payed staff, this can be fun.

But it should not be possible to just get into the game, slay several hundred monsters, ignore other people, get some gear and go on to the next game.

No involvment in role-playing, no working with your fellow players, no own ideas and own activity - no fun!

I don´t think it will work to just make the monster slaying less rewarding. Then people will come, who want to do pvp or pve without "Kiddies".

And I also don´t think different servers for different kind of role-players would be a good idea. If people are willing to role-play and know it´s required in this game (all the time, not only when you are just bored from monster-slaying), they will do it. Who doesn´t can be banned.

There has to be an all-over role-playing atmosphere created by the players. Then the newbies will just get into it automatically. There will be no other ways to play such a game than role-playing it.

But it does not have to be the usual monster-slaying game, which is fun also when you don´t role-play. Because then there will always be people (and many of them), who WILL have fun without role-playing and the atmosphere will be destroyed.

For an interesting look into role-playing computer games, I suggest trying http://www.jmp.fi/~smaarane/urw.html <- Unreal World.

It's difficult, often a bit frustrating, and sometimes downright lethal. The fun is in the trying, and like original nethack, figuring out how to survive and advance. (don't worry, it's not quite a roguelike)

That combined with the gameplay aspects of http://www.taleworlds.com/ <- Mount & Blade, would easily make a game I'd be interested in playing. Of course, it would be a game that would require quite a bit from the players, and it would probably never advance beyond 'niche' status... But who wants to make a WoW-clone anyways?

I know what you mean, st4rscream. There's still nothing to really compare with NWN1 in terms of developer support (BioWare are about to release the final ever patch... 6 years after the game was released!), community, or modability, including its sequel (though NWN2 might be improving).

That anyone with a reasonably modern PC and a stable internet connection can host their own private (or public) worlds and campaigns, and mod the game to their own particular preferences, completely free to anyone who plays, is what really sets it apart.