When Livegamer.com sent out a press release yesterday announcing that they had partnered with numerous MMO companies including SOE and Funcom, it raised a number of questions about the nature of that relationship that Managing Editor Jon Wood tries to answer.

 

Yesterday, a press release was issued announcing the introduction of livegamer.com, a company with the tagline: “A Legitimate Market for Virtual Trading”. The company’s official website makes a clear point of listing partner studios: GoPets, Pingo, 10tacle, Acclaim, Funcom and Sony Online Entertainment (SOE).

“Live Gamer Inc™ (www.livegamer.com) today announced its introduction as the premier provider of a publisher-supported, secure platform for real money trading of virtual property. Live Gamer is partnering with top massively multiplayer online game (MMOG) publishers and virtual world operators worldwide, including Funcom GMBH, Sony Online Entertainment, 10TACLE STUDIOS, Acclaim, GoPets LTD, and Ping0 Interactive Limited. The company was founded by industry veterans and backed with $24 million in venture funding from Charles River Ventures, Kodiak Venture Partners, and Pequot Ventures.” - Live Gamer Press Release

 

Read more here.

DO NOT WANT!

bad bad bad, but expected. RMT happens whatever companies are against it or not. It is costing them SO much (banning/tracking an person cost time and therefor money). So I assume from an companies perspective it is only smart to atleast get an % of these RMT.

I would much prefer companies selling it themselves (without an middleman aka farmers). They can then provide it cheaper. Selling non-excisting stuff means there is no labor involved. Beside the fact it was made once, it only need an admin to clone the item. So I really doubt an company like Funcom and SoE (who if I am correct already provide RMT for specified server from some of there games) would work benifit from working with these companies. Unless they provide the "money" and "ïtems" to the company selling it. This would mean they do not have to items to do it themselves, they would not get farmers and just get money for cloning what they already made.

Also working with an RTM company means they have control over it. They can even in cooperation limit it to certain servers.

So RTM site are there to stay, however the best way to fight the illigal RTM sites and there army of farmers would be to work with an RTM provider and have control over the virtual trade and gain some money from it at the same time.

This is yet another example of The Man catering to the lowest common denominator (online gold BUYERS, not sellers).  *sigh*

A shame to see the MMORPG industry falling so low.

I Oped this news item yesterday   http://mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/159821 with all due respect . It still does not make it right to make it legit.

After repeated failure to create any decent MMO ,

the companies in question decided that it is not enough that they take 15$ a month subscription , but they will add an item shop. Alas indirectly , so they will be able to cash on the rights of now "legal" goldsellers to paddle their wares.

I would readily avoid this companies and their products from now on - unless they remove subscriptions, as other item shop games do.

But sadly i see Funcom is involved , meaning AOC will be item shop game.

Incredibly disapointing

Not at all surprising.  Funcom was one of the first to whore out in-game ad space, so this is a natural step for them.  Likewise, SOE has been trying to break into the RMT market since the Sony Exchange servers were introduced.

I have never played on servers where this kind of thing is sanctioned, and I doubt I will ever play a game that is involved with livegamer.com.

so, the game companies want a piece of (their own) cake that is out there ....

What I don't get, is why they simply don't do it themselves? As SOE with their Station Exchange (aolthough limited to US), or EA with Ultima Online, where you can buy tokens from them for specific stuff, advanced characters, etc.

Personally, I always thought, that Blizzard could make more money, if they offered advanced characters. Make a max-level one a server, you get to buy a, say lv40 character, if you want and find the grind boring. Considering that they "made it easier to level from 20-50" or whatever, it shows they know many are not too keen on leveling multiple chars (and that their content must be pretty boring if they now make it faster (i.e. less quests necessary)).

*shrugs* oh well. money makes the (gaming) world go round. We can be glad if some MMOs continue existing. See how fast it went for Fury.....

I know why big companies like the idea of RMT.  They don't have to put development dollars into finding ways to prevent it, and they get a cut of the profits.

I don't understand people who don't see a problem with it though.  The main reason many people play online games is to escape some part of their own reality and compete on a level playing field.  If I'm physically weak, I can't win in real-life sporting events, but I might be able to play a beefy warrior in an MMO and smack people around.  If I'm financially poor, I can't have nice things in my home, but I could outfit a virtual home with all kinds of neat stuff that I crafted or looted myself.

Adding RMT as a legitimate thing takes all that away.  Now the rich get to win here too.

I know why companies want this.  I know why rich kids want it.  Unfortunately, they're the only voices that matter.

*sigh*

Trying to steal market from IGE and other chinese RMT companies?

Originally posted by Lobotomist

But sadly i see Funcom is involved , meaning AOC will be item shop game.

Hope that clears thngs up.

---

Originally posted by quixadhal
I know why big companies like the idea of RMT.  They don't have to put development dollars into finding ways to prevent it, and they get a cut of the profits. 

---

I disagree - if they do a deal with an offical company for RMT they will have to spend more money/effort cracking down on the non licensed RMT people.

Originally posted by Lobotomist

I would readily avoid this companies and their products from now on - unless they remove subscriptions, as other item shop games do.

But sadly i see Funcom is involved , meaning AOC will be item shop game.

Incredibly disapointing

 

Next time...read the article before posting ^^.

~HappyGaming

I guess SOE has found a future for themselves after their new games fail and EQ fades away.  They will farm gold in WoW and sell it.

Well I used to feel strongly against gold, item or account buyers. I still believe the later ones should be fought, but mostly because it leads to end game players with little to no knowledge of the game and their character abilities.

But I have changed my mind about gold/item selling buying. Why? Because I recently tried a few free to play MMOs whose business model is based on item mall sales.

I no longer believe it is cheating or unfair. Let's face it... is there a big difference between grinding your in-game gold and items or 'grinding' RL money to pay for those? If you have enough free time to do it the game way... fine. Hope you have fun :) I no longer have the time to do that. But I do have a good job that gets me enough cash to buy any items I want without even a blink, at least at current market prices. Why should my RL work 'grind' be worth less than your in-game one?

In F2P games, the people like me are the ones that actually support the other's free play. So they should love us, instead of looking down at us.

On subscription games, the problem has to be approached differently, of course: there is no 'exchange' like in F2Ps. But... there are bots, gold farmers, inflated prices in all of them. The companies (or most of them) spend a large amount of resources fighting the farmers and botters, resources that could be used to improve the service. I do not condone or use gold selling services for subscription games at the moment, but that's just a matter of personal ethics. Still, wouldn't it be better if companies like Blizzard, SoE, Funcom, PlayNC, etc finally acknowledged that there is a significant part of their customer base that are open to such a service? To clearly state that spending money for game progression by people who have little free time and lots of money is not unfair when compared to spending free time for game progression from people with lots of free time and little money?

I believe so. This would also help control the farmers problem, because they would ultimately wither and die out. It would prevent inflation by giving companies the tools to keep in-game prices under control. It would also most likely increase their income and maybe allow them to lower subscription prices, thus enlarging their customer base.

It makes sense from a business point of view. I would like people to realize it also makes sense from a player's point of view.

Ask not for whom the bell tolls, for it tolls for the dedicated crafter.

It seems that SOE's "John Smedley's" cryptic posts about the next Sony MMO, perhaps that one consisting of the DC Comics brand. Could use some sort of RMT system, which if i recall correctly John Smedley had stated. That the upcoming DC Comics MMO wouldn't be a subscription based customer model.

The Livegamer.com site also has an interview posted over at GamaSutra.com website.

Link:

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=16663

GamaSutra via their sister site "Worlds in Motion" had a Q&A with the CEO of LiveGamer.com Andy Schneider.

It seems that LiveGamer will be offering a secure platform system for these RMT trades. Be it a middleware developed specifically for this or an in-house bureau of their own customer support team.

Let's see how this stuff develops with new MMO titles coming down the pipe. Or some of the lesser performer MMO's in the SOE catalog might get retrofitted. (perhaps Vanguard ala the EQ2 Station Exchange model but with a "LiveGamer" treatment).

hmmm. kinda glad I am growing out of the mmo phase.   Eve model works simply because money gets vacumed out of the economy  just as fast as it gets brought in.  A single alliance battle can drain a bucket load of isk out of the economy.

In a game such as Anarchy Online. It simply doesn't. Credits do not go anywhere in that game other than traveling thru other players hands. I saw  this coming from a mile away ever since that fluff item mall was anounced. Not really fluff anymore now is it. What are you all paying sub fees for again?  Why do some items cost more credits than what all of the characters on a single account are allowed to hold?

If companys wan't me to accept something like this. They better introduce big money sinks such as in Eve with clone costs and ship insurance costs.  Which last I was aware insurance didn't even come close to rebuying a well kitted vessal back.  But it is enough to help negate the cost unless you loose a 800+ mill ship everyday.  Then it would just be stupid to keep getting insurance.

 Funcom is below the level  of what I think about Asian games.  They do little to fix the monopoly that controls supposedly public zones. They do nothing to drain their own economy of credits.  I watched the economy literally double in price from around august to september this year.   This is in a 6ish year old game which should be fairly stable at this point. There hasn't been a huge influx of new players for quite sometime, nore would I say a great loss of the playerbase.  Since the majority who stick with it have been doing so for years.  Sure theirs a turnover rate. But rarely do those short term players make it to a high enough lvl to affect the economy as far as bots or high end loots go.

Simply amazing after that speech given by funcom saying they would not be doing this.    And all the harping I took on this site in the AO section when I freaked out because of that stupid gold buying survey done on the AO forums.

Whats a monthly fee for again? ooohhhhh.. hmmmmm   ....

Edited in to be more clear on what survey i was refering too.

Resistance is futile...

In all seriousness, people need to lighten up.  Not only is rmt in very high demand, but there's not much more fun then finding a piece of equipment worth a few hundred dollars.  Why should anyone care about someone's epeen when there's good money to be made?

Originally posted by zaxxon23

Resistance is futile...

but there's not much more fun then finding a piece of equipment worth a few hundred dollars.  Why should anyone care about someone's epeen when there's good money to be made?

Just wait until you find out that it's all bind on pickup.

The problem with this business model is it gives developers incentive to increase the grind so people will use the service.  Free to play games with RMT built in are invariably grindfests. Now you'll see subscription games built the same way. At least more so than they already are. If RMT is evil poor game design is the root of that evil. If games were fun to play all the way through people wouldn't want to buy virtual property to avoid having to play them. The solution is obvious. Build MMOs that don't suck and that people want to continue to play after the first couple of months.

Originally posted by zaxxon23

Resistance is futile...

In all seriousness, people need to lighten up.  Not only is rmt in very high demand, but there's not much more fun then finding a piece of equipment worth a few hundred dollars.  Why should anyone care about someone's epeen when there's good money to be made?

1. AO is Sub based payment method, commerial  based ,and item mall based.   

2. Funcoms lead person said they would not be doing this to their game in his oh so mighty speech awhile back.  

The reason this works in Eve.Simple.

1.Eve polices bot farmers which is part of what I expect for a monthly fee. (a level playing field.) 

2. Eve efficiantly drains its economy of isk.  just as well if not better than the ways isk are brought into the economy.

3.Lets also note, they  do not provide this service thru a 3rd party.The isk is brought (suppose to be brought) into game thru normal methods of a person playing.  So a this 3rd party service could very well  infest a game such as Ao with numerous bots. 

Reasons  this is bad for Funcom and I assume this will be used in AO.

1. A very , and I do mean very small group of players control unique encounters.  They run the raidbots so its their rules or the highway.     Their is not enough community to be able to opose these bots and expect to settle back in after words and mix into the crowd.  One org did this awhile back and was hunted by everyone ((The sheep herders and the sheep)) and eventually split up due to the fact they were not able to blend back into the population when they wanted.   I believe it was called Mafia Din Romainia .  4 soldiers I believe, Out Damaged a 40+ man raidforce in APF.   And they were hounded from then on, until basically MDR was no more. I dont know exactly or why they split. I do think it is safe to assume tho they got tired of the atention that was thrown their way (((by the sheep herders and sheep)) after a few of these stunts..

2. The reason number 1 is such a big deal. That is probably what the majority of this gold being bought will be used to buy. So these players essentially not only control certain playfields but they also have a chance to really abuse this system to god knows what end.

3.  Anarchy Online does not take credits out of the economy.   It simply doesn't. Money changes hands but it never gets vacumed out. Except for the new alt or player that needs a 5 mill yalm once in a characters life time. Which is why this service will not be any good  for players who have been playing a year or 2 currently. They have their mains for the most part kitted.  This is only screwing over the new player, stagnating the playerbase even more.

 So now not only is it pretty impossable to make credits to buy your Shadowlands weapon or Symbs at the lvl its ment to be used. (if your new). Not talking twink gear just what would be considered average or below average. 

 But its rewarding those who can farm these items on mains to screw the new player. Instead inforceing the idea  to help fellow faction members out..   There was a reason Ao was always mentioned as one of the best communitys. This gold selling thing if introduced can possably destroy whats left of the decent community.   

Fees to me do not only pay for Server maintenance, is also insures that i get  a level playing field, Along with semi balanced mechanics, and Customer service.    Funcom has 3 ways of earning income from this game currently. Soon to be a 4th ((not including box costs))   And the economy is still way outta whack.  Spawns are farmed and monopolized as well as entire playfields by a small group of players.  Which is general home to non-instanced mobs that drop an assortment of items in all of the game. That characters essentially need.

All this Gold buying does is re-inforce paying for loot rights from those who monopolize this spawn and essentially don't need anything other than a lazymans way to farm.

I do not see how I can point it out anymore clearer than this as far as Funcom and AO is concerned.

After skimming over the comments, I have this question: who is most affected by the move? Players or gold farmers?  I do not see anyone talk on behalf of the gold farmers, who would be losing their job and their company setup.  They should be up in arms.

Instead, I see many objections on ground of morality.  That is absurd.  You can criticise SoE for selling, but you can do nothing to criticise the gold farmer who is farmer Boss XYZ 24/7 and simply kill-stealing anything that moves.  SoE can effectively remove the gold farmer by making it totally unprofitably.  The RL money goes to SoE, not the gold farmer.  I sure think SoE deserves it more than the annoying gold farmer, and hopefully, this will help finance more free expansions.

I see arguments about companies raising grinding levels to force people to buy.  No no, not unless SoE is monopoly in the MMO market.  Competition will ensure that games are make to be enjoyed, and unless everyone enjoys grinding, someone else will make a less grinding game to attract the non grinders.

I see arguments about inflation, which in most essense is a very valid argument.  Item decay, money sink (some can be fun, such as potions, housing rental), all can be used, but eventually, as we all level up we will be rich.  As we all get rich, inflation will occur for our alts.  That is as realistic in RL as in games.  Unless we do not use the capitalist model of money trade in game, it will be inevitable.  Luckily its only a general price level increase, meaning the rate of exchange of items (relative prices) still reflects the relative popularity.  So a blue sword is still worth 2 green swords, even though the prices of both has doubled in 2 months.  The ultimate victim?  True newbies, first timers, new migrants from another server.

RMT is here to stay.  There is hardly any fool proof method to get rid of them.  Changing the gameplay to try to kill them is like throwing the baby out with the bath water.  Legitimizing it, and controlling it, preferrably in an open manner will help regulate the impact of RMT.  As long as there are competiting MMO companies, we can still hope that game quality be maintained as each company works out its policy on RMT.  Last but way the most important, goodbye to the bot farmer sitting in front of the temple of XYZ 24/7.  I can finally walk in and take a look at the monsters inside.

I couldn't believe it when I read it, but it doesn't seem to be a 100% thing just yet. People talk about how this will undermine IGN and other companies, i really don't see it that way. IGN will probably carry out its operations but instead they'll probably sell things on this site, obviously not under IGN.

This is good and bad; good in that this will probably allow the companies to actually look into the economy and change things accordingly (not EVE's case, they seem to have things under good control), but now that there is a legit market, you'll probably see people/bots/farmers playing games just for the sake of making money, not that they dont, but not its a lot easier to make money.

I'm in different really, hell if this work out I might even sell an "uber" item or two.

Originally posted by Ecranomical

I couldn't believe it when I read it, but it doesn't seem to be a 100% thing just yet. People talk about how this will undermine IGN and other companies, i really don't see it that way. IGN will probably carry out its operations but instead they'll probably sell things on this site, obviously not under IGN.

 

This is good and bad; good in that this will probably allow the companies to actually look into the economy and change things accordingly (not EVE's case, they seem to have things under good control), but now that there is a legit market, you'll probably see people/bots/farmers playing games just for the sake of making money, not that they dont, but not its a lot easier to make money.

 

I'm in different really, hell if this work out I might even sell an "uber" item or two.

It depends on the business model.  If the new company only sells items, not buy, then no farmer can make money by playing the game.  The only players in the game are those who play for fun, either farming all items or buying some and farming the rest.