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News & Features Discussion  » Warhammer Online : Age of Reckoning: Launch Moved: A Talk With Mark Jacobs

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65 posts found
  User Deleted
11/02/07 5:17:44 PM#41

I know EA gets the SOE rap sometimes (being called Evil, ruins games, etc...)

But, this year HAS seen a massive turn around in their strategies...

New and unique IP's for games (Deadspace) instead of the "Another sequel"

Big steps in the MMO field (Mythic..Step 1....Bioware. Step 2)

And now, not releasing a game for money only...what a concept...that a few companies I will not mention here, should have also followed...

I for one...will be watching EA a little closer...more of a lean mean MMO, unique IP machine...

Cheers!

  Oasis21

Novice Member

Joined: 4/01/07
Posts: 39

11/02/07 5:27:59 PM#42

Soo..does this mean more beta time?

Heh well sucks its been moved but hope its worth the wait...hope they dont move it again.

  Cendharia

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/05/06
Posts: 287

11/02/07 7:58:36 PM#43

Originally posted by elvenangel

 

Originally posted by Mantelar

Well, I am dedicated Warhammer fan, playing Warhammer RPG for some years and trying  the tabletop game. So when I heard the news about Warhammer MMORPG, I jubilated. Enlisted for Beta, of course.

I began to loose my belief in all the project hearing more and more reports "how cool it will be" with nothing real to grasp. Last nail to the coffin for me was the announcement about server closing. Yes, I read an official statement //whole affair apparently serious, no more childish jokes there//  but it did not explain weak points for me. Two month pause for implementing slight changes gained from players feedback? Two months, that's lot of time and lots of work, especially with the team like Mythic. So - are the changes (and corresponding  game mechanics malfunction) really so slight? Or are they big, touching some of the core mechanics and the Mythic just not telling the truth to us?

If you know anything about programming you know that what may feel and look like slight changes externally (on the user's side) can be a rather huge change internally.   Programming isn't just plug and go.    We have no idea why they would need to take down the beta servers, but as a programmer I suspect its so they can impliment the changes and get NEW feedback instead of the repeated screams of viciousness.     Their style of beta testing is unconventional but definitly not unheard of. 

And two months for implementing the Elven Realms? Absurd argument. Look at EVE Online and their patching time when implementing new contents.

Eve Online is an established game with only ships and giant vasts of space to worry about instead of actual land, npc's, mounts, transportation issues etc etc.    Its much easier to get new content in to an established finished game since most of it (unless its huge mechanic changes like they do with WoW) is scripted in.   If you've been following Warhammer Online for a while then you know that 2 to 3 months is the usual time once they start revealing the racial classes & zones.  Adding in a new area IS actually a huge content and programming / scripting update.

My suspection deepened with the EA announcement about buying Bioware, mainly with regard to their developing MMO. What does EA, owning Mythic and thus Warhammer IP, need another great MMO for? Maybe beacause Warhammer is not prepared and in dubious state...

Because EA wants to create a big MMO division like SOE has it requires more than one house of programmers.  Plus their RPG division in games has always been incredibly lack luster now with Bioware on hand they'll have single player RPG's and a new MMO.    Its really just smart business.

Today is known that planned launch term is moved and Mark Jacobs conceded "some parts of RvR need to be re-worked". RvR is surely make-or-break of this game, the thing distinguishing WAR from countless other hack-and-slash MMORPG. So the malfunction really refer to a substantial part of game mechanics.

Its not a malfunction to rework something.   Sometimes when you design something and the programmers put it all together the outcome isn't always what you expected.    Thats why you rework.  

And today, my belief for WAR is totally lost. Not because of the game itself but because of Mythic. They apparently lie. And worse, they apparently lie unbelievable way. I disliked it. So I'm returning to CoV and looking for a Bioware MMO. No more interest about WAR from me. Wait for this game, if you like, I am leaving.

 Mythic's development time with this game thus far has been shorter than most.   I for one am glad they're addressing issues they know are there from feedback now instead of after launch like so many other games do.   Super Group fantastic system of EQ2 ring a bell?  Completely gone now but it was a tad late, if the game had started out with the play mechanics its got now it'd of been better earlier on.

 

 

Personally the push back just makes me clamour more because thats ... that many more chances I could get into beta!   I still look forward to Warhammer and as a programmer I can understand the want for the product your making to come out the way you wanted right at the gate.  Its always disheartening if you have to push something your not happy with out because someone forces your hand.

A good sensible post with some facts included unlike some of the conspiracy theorists in this thread..gnashing their teeth and grabbing at straws to substantiate their claims.   What ends up being WRONG with most betas I have participated in over the years are those beta testers that feel "entitled" and spend most of their time having tantrums to get their own way...or else ..Ie:   "I won't buy your game if you don't do exactly what I want"..........seen it too many times.     Its too bad that the beta tester choosing process wasn't more efficient....weeding out those harmful elements that drag everything down and try to impede progress and new ideas that could potentially make the current game being tested, a wonder to behold and play.

Thanks for your imput Elven...much the way I see things. :)

Cend

 

 

  Cendharia

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/05/06
Posts: 287

11/02/07 8:09:41 PM#44

Actually the orcs, dwarves and elves ideas were spawned way back in the 1940's by a man named Tolkien.....if we want to get picky about details....

Wow is not the Holy Grail despite some of you that think so.   They have copied everything from their predecessors and more.   Five year old machines can run their software because their software isn't as detailed or complicated as some games out today.   Cartoony style works for most machines.

I have played Wow...two attempts.....still came to the same conclusion that game isn't for me....not challenging enough.

BUT its a very good game if you are new to MMOs and want to cut your gaming teeth on something, hence the millions of first timers and casual gamers that play it.

Please don't try to tell the rest of us that have been gaming for YEARS online...that Wow invented the wheel..its just not so....hehehe

 

Cend

  Cendharia

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/05/06
Posts: 287

11/02/07 8:16:54 PM#45

Originally posted by dreamer05
Originally posted by Mantelar

Well, I am dedicated Warhammer fan, playing Warhammer RPG for some years and trying  the tabletop game. So when I heard the news about Warhammer MMORPG, I jubilated. Enlisted for Beta, of course.

I began to loose my belief in all the project hearing more and more reports "how cool it will be" with nothing real to grasp. Last nail to the coffin for me was the announcement about server closing. Yes, I read an official statement //whole affair apparently serious, no more childish jokes there//  but it did not explain weak points for me. Two month pause for implementing slight changes gained from players feedback? Two months, that's lot of time and lots of work, especially with the team like Mythic. So - are the changes (and corresponding  game mechanics malfunction) really so slight? Or are they big, touching some of the core mechanics and the Mythic just not telling the truth to us?

And two months for implementing the Elven Realms? Absurd argument. Look at EVE Online and their patching time when implementing new contents.

My suspection deepened with the EA announcement about buying Bioware, mainly with regard to their developing MMO. What does EA, owning Mythic and thus Warhammer IP, need another great MMO for? Maybe beacause Warhammer is not prepared and in dubious state...

Today is known that planned launch term is moved and Mark Jacobs conceded "some parts of RvR need to be re-worked". RvR is surely make-or-break of this game, the thing distinguishing WAR from countless other hack-and-slash MMORPG. So the malfunction really refer to a substantial part of game mechanics.

And today, my belief for WAR is totally lost. Not because of the game itself but because of Mythic. They apparently lie. And worse, they apparently lie unbelievable way. I disliked it. So I'm returning to CoV and looking for a Bioware MMO. No more interest about WAR from me. Wait for this game, if you like, I am leaving.

 


Leaving because they're taking the time to make it a better game? Thats just absurd.  I'm glad to see this decision made, I'll wait until 2009 if thats the time they need to make it a better game for us.  I think all MMO developers should be held to these standards.

Quoted for truth!  Huzzah!!  hehe

Cend

 

 

  Cendharia

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/05/06
Posts: 287

11/02/07 8:21:36 PM#46

Originally posted by Riot55

While I'm all for releasing polished products, I'm very disheartened because this game set to release about now, and then the developers PROMISED to get it out by early 08'.  I would rather play through a slightly less polished game and have changes implemented slowly that way I can get my character started.  I just hope I get into Beta soon.... =/

And have to listen to the backlash of gamers howling that they are paying to play beta?  Not lol.  Been there done that ..threw away the t-shirt.

Lets for once encourage finished game products, not half-assed bungled, buggy unplayable disappointments.....I think you all know what I am referring to..no names mentioned.

 

Cend

  Cendharia

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/05/06
Posts: 287

11/02/07 8:31:59 PM#47

Originally posted by Zoomzoo

Typical Mythic doublespeak. 

1)  We are not meeting our internal deadlines.  It is not because of lack of staff.  It's because... because... Well, frankly we don't know why we're not meeting our internal deadlines - and that is a good thing.

2)  Our beta testers discovered all sorts of problems, issues and great new ideas - none of which were anticipated and in order to correct the game this means we will have to push back the release date - and that is a good thing.

Anyone else see a management issue here?  Get rid of Marc Jacobs now and this game has a chance.

 

 Actually in any GOOD game, the Devs are able to listen and take note of constructive criticism, and do something about it...

So I read that Mark Jacobs got feedback from his boss ..the Publisher..the guy that counts the beans, that they are allowed some more time to add things in that might be needed or buff things up that might be needed.  

Is there something wrong with that picture?  I don't think there is to be quite honest. 

But obviously Zoom you know much better than these develloppers how to make a game..and certainly more than EA/Mythic put together...so I am gonna nominate you to be the Director in Charge of Warhammer.

You bettter do a damn good job or I won't be buying your game!   mmm kay?

Cend

  Cendharia

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/05/06
Posts: 287

11/02/07 8:45:13 PM#48

Originally posted by MaeEye

I think some of the people in here are getting a little out of hand with the whole "WAR will flop"  comments.  Honestly, WAR is too big to flop.  It is going strong and has MILLIONS of people eager to play it.  It's just like any Valve game, release date get pushed back, and back and back, but in the end you have a high quality extremely well made game that you can enjoy.  Plus, most companies eyes have been opened up since the whole vanguard.  And what company wants to do buisness like SOE?  I think EAmythic is making a smart move and I'm sure it will show in the end.

 I won't agree that ANY game is too big to flop...it can happen and has happened..this year.   If they need to push it back and the bean counters have enough faith in the game's potential..ie they are opening the purse strings to allow it...then I wouldn't be complaining about a later release.   Matter of fact, that gives that many more of us a chance at the beta and I really want in ...hehehe

You guys need to stop with the doom and gloom,  it sounds like they are putting their shoulders to the grind, allow them the time they need.   Our impatience to play is not going to help that project succeed.

Cend

  Cendharia

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/05/06
Posts: 287

11/02/07 8:52:09 PM#49

Originally posted by Martie

 

Originally posted by CnOath

For those that think Warhammer is a copy of WoW, you do realise that Warhammer has been around in one form or another since 1983.

 

 

 

Oh jesus christ here we go again.  Another genius to remind us for the  x0000 time.

Did you know cake>Pie?

tis true i tell you.

 

The facts are the facts whether you wish to accept them or not........another "Wow is the Holy Grail" ...tee hee.  

There is no life..only Wow..there are no facts only Wow no other online games existed before Wow!...sing that song!!   *wink*

hehehe

Cend

 

 

  LouiseK

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/04/07
Posts: 260

Im sorry, i cant help it - Im socially retarded.

11/03/07 12:04:32 PM#50

I think its a really good idea, i completely agree that adding on another couple of years if needs be is so much better than rushing out an unfinished product.

Presuming they are geniune that is.

If the delay is not for the reasons given and what we get is the typical release that still needs tweeking i think people are going to be really really unforgiving.

 

  Flummoxed

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/24/07
Posts: 592

Make a WORLD,
Not a Game.

11/03/07 1:01:34 PM#51
Originally posted by Cendharia

a loyal employee of, and paid evangelist for, EA.

  Mors.Magne

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/02/07
Posts: 1422

11/03/07 3:05:07 PM#52

I wish WAR all the best.

However, I'm really glad that my favourite game, Eve Online, has an outstanding team of devs and a fantastic leader - it gives me confidence in them. They communicate on the forums regularly, and they have superb vision for their game. You feel your game is in good hands.

 

  Kuanshu

Novice Member

Joined: 5/19/04
Posts: 277

11/03/07 4:10:16 PM#53

It is what it is

Was this expected? In the MMORPG Genre the best to be expected would be a little or no lag, few bugs, good gameplay, alot of content, nice graphics, active community, good storyline, and some pvp element.

The only real reason someone would be dissappointed in the release date being pushed back is that their life is either rather uneventful/uninteresting or they do not seek out adventure/excitement amongst lifes compexities. My mom had a saying, "If your bored alot, you must be boring company".

As far as the Vanguard factor is concerned:

I think MMOGs are going to improve iteratively, and that's a good thing -- too many changes, too quickly, in a new genre can be dangerous, especially considering what it takes to build one of these games ... I know other MMOG developers disagree and feel we need paradigm shifts every few years (and perhaps want to be credited for these leaps). But look where it's gotten us ... we have 30 million dollar flops that hurt us ALL, making it harder for even experienced developers to get the funding they need, and incredibly tough on the newer developer. It's just too early to experiment in major ways ... let's get a few more hits out first and prove this genre as viable long term, ok?"
        Brad McQuaid
        Original Producer and Co-Designer of EverQuest
        President and CEO of Sigil Games Online, Inc.

 

I played Mythic's initial success Dark Age of Camelot and being the first player in the world to hit rank 5 in Realm Points I gained some noteriety as well (Ninpo, Albion Scout, Merlin Server). Simply said, if WAR runs as smoothly as DAoC did during its beta and after release, and the RvR element they are boasting about, delivers, I cannot see how it could fail.

Oh btw Pie>Cake anyday

  FreedomBlade

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/03/06
Posts: 300

Let put an end to the endless shitty EQ clones once and for all. Click on my Siggy!

11/03/07 4:37:10 PM#54

Oh what a shame. Not.

WAR is adding nothing new to the MMO scene. It is just another WOW.

 

  _Seeker

Novice Member

Joined: 7/28/04
Posts: 178

What? Me worry?

11/03/07 8:46:26 PM#55

 You mean just another EQ.

 

  Hives

Novice Member

Joined: 1/29/04
Posts: 176

11/03/07 10:36:20 PM#56

I'm all for a delay if they put WAR! into Warhammer Online and not pointless RvR or a zone snorefest. I say make it a all out land War with city/town takeovers.

  User Deleted
11/06/07 9:25:15 PM#57

Well actually its pretty good that they pushed it back. It means that when it does come out, it will have less bugs and crap for people to complain about.

Think of it like sex lol. The longer you put it off, the better it feels in the end .

The longer they put off WAR, the more people will wanna play it and when it finally gets released then BAM! It turns out to be so good that people give up their social lives and jobs just to be with it.

  strongbelwas

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/12/05
Posts: 14

11/07/07 10:46:47 PM#58

to paraphrase  "weve come to realize that the feature were banking on with this game, RVR, is a complete and utter disaster that brings absolutly nothing new or compelling to this genre. today weve officially entered panic mode". 

  Fion

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/03
Posts: 2356

forums.3305local.com

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11/08/07 8:15:13 AM#59

I don't know if it's a complete and utter disaster, but I've heard for several beta testers that it wasn't remotely up to the standards it should have been. I wouldn't doubt that when the beta opens again with the new phase, that there will be significant changes. For one, apparently the entire tier system feels more like a singleplayer experience then a realm wide push for dominance. We'll just have to wait and see.

  inseptra

Novice Member

Joined: 9/13/05
Posts: 8

11/09/07 1:02:46 AM#60

This is what i get out of the recently announced delay. From what i read, and mind you this is just my opinion, Mythic has 1 major problem with the game. This is from the article. "We are aware of what Quests, classes, etc. that players are spending their time with and enjoying". this leads me to believe that they have indentified an ingame balance problem. exp, 1 class dominates all others. If this is in fact the case then their decision to move the launch date further will be well worth it.

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