This week, Joe Iuliani sets his sights on on ways that Blizzard can get level 70 players back into their home areas.

Is it me or once you hit level 70 do you feel trapped in Outland? Sure there are the Seasonal Events “back home” to get players involved in Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms, and those events are great. *cough* see last week’s column *cough, cough* Additionally there are the High Level Outland instances including Serpentshrine Cavern, The Black Temple, and Mount Hyjal as well as all the heroic level instances. And let’s not forget PvP (not that any hardcore WoW player could). All Outland based options for the level 70 player.

The problem is, once new zones are launched, game developers have to expect that those original zones will empty out, especially when those new zones are geared toward end-game level characters. A prime example of this was found in Dark Age of Camelot, when everybody jumped to the Shrouded Isle zones. The upcoming Zul’Aman will take you to the Ghostlands, but that is still a Burning Crusade zone.

Read it all here.

Strange stuff, really. First, Mount Hyjal is most definitely not located in Outland. You enter Hyjal from the Caverns of  Time, which is located in Tanaris. Furthermore, Mount Hyjal itself is located in Winterspring, also an old-world location. Only the Eye of the Storm PvP instance and 2 out of 3 arenas are located in Outland. The rest of the PvP locales are located in the old world, and you can also access all of the battlegrounds from any capital city. I'm not even going to mention world PvP, as it is pretty much obsolete.

I don't think not having an auction house in Shatrath is blackmail, this is how its always been in WoW. The auction houses are either limited to Steamwheedle Cartel locations or to capital cities of either faction.

I agree with you, the old world needs more people. I don't know about your suggestions, however. Why add daily quests to zones which are full of "gray" mobs? I would not find that interesting. Thing is, it isn't as if the mid-level zones were extremely populated even before the advent of TBC. People will play where the content is for their level, it is very simple.

They should have added level 70 zones to the old world as well, not just Outland. Maybe add in the Goblin capital and the islands located between the Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor, maybe include the rest of "Northern Azeroth"(Not Northrend) along with "Northern Plaguelands", an "Easter egg" zone that is completely void of life.

One benefit though is that there aren't as many lvl 70s ganking around STV etc as there were 60s there before the xpac.

To me though it would just be adding the same grind just different scenery. Once you're at 70, it's all the same thing. Just one constant grind. Once you have some raids in your belt, it's not worth doing any instances since you'll have better gear and so you're back to the log in on raid days for 4-6 hours of not being able to get up from the computer.

I dunno, I'm the wierd type that like games like UO/SWG/Eve/Darkfall where you own/manage/conquer territory and the economy/gear/content is more based on players.

Totaly agreed with Stradden, im think on this fact last week.

They simply forgot the old content

Sorry for my english

Does anyone read the “In development” part of the world of warcraft site? Its all being looked after.  Don’t worry about it.

Originally posted by mmcguire2

Does anyone read the “In development” part of the world of warcraft site? Its all being looked after.  Don’t worry about it.

What's the address of that site?  I absolutely agree about the Auction house being a blackmail.  It sucks having to go all the way back to IF or SW to sell stuff - Unless you have a mule:)

Originally posted by mmcguire2

Does anyone read the “In development” part of the world of warcraft site? Its all being looked after.  Don’t worry about

dont have anything on under development about old content and i dont think they are preocupied with

my english suck so dont bother to flame me

the adress is here www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/underdev/

Originally posted by tbNitz

 

Originally posted by mmcguire2

Does anyone read the “In development” part of the world of warcraft site? Its all being looked after.  Don’t worry about

 

 

dont have anything on under development about old content and i dont think they are preocupied with

my english suck so dont bother to flame me

 

 

the adress is here www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/underdev/

 

One thing being added in Warcraft's next patch is actually one of the recommendations which the author gave, which is to give greater benefits for exhalted standing.  Rather than a straight 10% bonus in costs at honored, there is going to be a 5/10/15/20% bonus depending on faction level.

Yes they forgot the old content. They also forgot to add new content for the lvl 20 - 60 crowd. They should make new lands in Azeroth to get lvl 70s to mingle in the old world. I also had the idea of having a very small portion of outland for the lvl 40 - 45 group (something that is completely seperated from the 60+ Outland) but gets some of the lower lvls to sort of mingle with the upper lvls. I just think the two worlds should interact more.

If you hadn't noticed in the PTR notes they're lowering the required exp from lvl 20-60 increasing ques exp from 30-60 and adding a whole ton of new quests and a new goblin city in dustwallow marsh in the hopes that people will level alts to populate old zones. They're revisiting old world instances and making the drops more valuable so players will actually bother visiting them to make levelling or pvping or w/e you want to do on your alt quicker. Essentially they're putting into action some Very good ideas to repopulate old realms.

Returning level 70s to Azeroth is not what Blizz wants to do because then you introduce areas that are very hazardous to low level players in low level areas. What Blizz wishes to do is create an influx of appropriate level characters for each zone so that finding an appropriately levelled group is actually possible for instances like RFC WC DM SFK BFD RFK RFD SM ZF Mara BRD etc.

Source: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patchnotes/test-realm-patchnotes.html

Originally posted by Vatigu

If you hadn't noticed in the PTR notes they're lowering the required exp from lvl 20-60 increasing ques exp from 30-60 and adding a whole ton of new quests and a new goblin city in dustwallow marsh in the hopes that people will level alts to populate old zones. They're revisiting old world instances and making the drops more valuable so players will actually bother visiting them to make levelling or pvping or w/e you want to do on your alt quicker. Essentially they're putting into action some Very good ideas to repopulate old realms.

Returning level 70s to Azeroth is not what Blizz wants to do because then you introduce areas that are very hazardous to low level players in low level areas. What Blizz wishes to do is create an influx of appropriate level characters for each zone so that finding an appropriately levelled group is actually possible for instances like RFC WC DM SFK BFD RFK RFD SM ZF Mara BRD etc.

 

Source: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patchnotes/test-realm-patchnotes.html

tks for the new

Coming from the original EQ I found WoW to be mostly easier with slightly better graphics even if they are a bit cartoonish, However, I think if Blizzard wants to get more people playing and utilize the "old world" zones more then they should definately add more races/classes to the start up. I have a 70 toon and quite a few smaller ones but find it the same old boring grind to level up doing the same quests and only having the same 5 races/ 6 classes to choose from senario. take other very successful games such as EQ, SoH, EQ2 etc and find that they have many races/classes to choose from, makes the game  a bit more competitive in terms of variety. Who says that the dwarves couldn't meet another races or classes to befired as well as the horde side of the house.. Just going by the older content wc1 , 2 or 3 is fine but when you want to move forward you must do so in a way that incorporates a variety of "new" content as well as the "storyline". This would also help with the complaint "everyone is the same class", that is so well heard on the game now...I don't play as much as I used to for this reason. Why should i level more toons to 70 doing the same stuff time after time....not when i can play SoH and have a ton of variety at my fingertips.

Summerrayne  - 70 Hunter (rune totem)

Doesn't really matter how much PvE content Blizzard adds, SOE does it better and EQ and EQ2 are proof of that. Instead, Blizzard needs to focus on the PvP aspect of their game or suffer the consequences in the next couple years.

For folks that can actually say they enjoy PvE grind anyhow, my hats off to those folks by the way, Blizzard just goes overboard by adding additional time sinks with Reputation grinds. To be honest, what exactly is so exciting about going through the same dungeons over and over and over and over? Try claiming that dungeon adventures vary and it will remain enjoyable is ignorant at best.

Don't get me wrong, cause I love questing and dungeon raids, but unless its a different shaped dungeon, with different mobs and different tactic and strategy requirements, I see no purpose in repeating a repeat adventure.

No, I think Blizzard should have started focus on PvP and stuck with it. If you think WoW PvP is boring, you can thank Blizzard cause your right, it is boring, but thats because Blizzard has invested little to no time on it. Stop screwing around with measly capture the flag world PvP crap and provide a more substantial reason to fight. Better rewards are generally a good reason to get 2 factions to fight each other. Dark Age of Camelot is a prime example of how PvP works and can work well. Unfortunately, it took the same company that made Dark Age of Camelot to repeat that success.

Want to keep WoW in WoW? Convince Blizzard to steer clear of another boring Hi Fi game full of pointless PvE grinding.

Content redundancy, as I prefer to personally call this symptom, is actually quite a common ailment of a game-progression model this linear and while Blizzard may attempt to dress it up in any way they'd like, the fact remains that WoW was neither designed nor, I do conject, originally intended to be anything remotely dissimilar.

As has already been said so often in the past, WoW stands as a hallmark of polish, not of ingenuity. There-in lies its greatest strength. There-in lies its ultimate weakness.

Edit: Minor grammar.

I agree with the previous poster in the fact that all blizzard should really be trying to expand is the PvP content. they will never really nail down a good PvE game. but the concept of World of Warcraft is PvP in nature, factional warfare, and they need to focus on the Warfare aspect. dont worry about making PvE gameplay more dynamic, but actually create a war! make the faction worth fighting for! when an orc screams for the horde he better be choppin the head of a dwarf, not playing some stupid carnival game,,...

Originally posted by mmcguire2

Does anyone read the “In development” part of the world of warcraft site? Its all being looked after.  Don’t worry about it.

Observe how the other posters above pointed this out as a completely false statement.  Always nice to a fanboi get pwned when they're telling people to ignore an obvious problem.

Originally posted by Vatigu

They're revisiting old world instances and making the drops more valuable so players will actually bother visiting them to make levelling or pvping or w/e you want to do on your alt quicker. Essentially they're putting into action some Very good ideas to repopulate old realms.

Source: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patchnotes/test-realm-patchnotes.html

At least this post provided a link.  But how do these changes help repopulate the old realms?   Making an alt is not one of the options suggested in the OP's article nor should it be one.

The upcoming 2.3 patch changes are not meant to help alts, they are meant to accelerate the leveling of the people still stuck with non-level capped characters.  And yes, there are still are players who have not level capped after all this time: http://www.warcraftrealms.com/index.php 

Here is someone actually put this into more useful format on the WoW Forums: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=108241682&sid=1

Now the accuracy of warcraftrealms is questionable of course, but Blizzard's actions make it clear that they desperately want to accelerate people to level 60+ faster.    Why?  Not to repopulate the old world, but rather to force everyone into Outlands and get them ready to buy the next expansion which has 70+ level content.  

Typical of Blizzard's short-sighted planning, this will only make the problem in the article worse.  The old world zones will become even more deserted after the WotLK.  This is just Blizzard's knee-jerk reaction to their pop numbers to get a higher percentage of their players willing to pay for their Expansion. 

The problem as I see it is with people that didn't start playing WoW from the start. Blizzard put 2 years of content updates in the 1-60 range. Even with the release of Burning Crusade and after they are still adding content for 1-60 although at a much slower rate.

As it is, it isn't possible to do all the quests and all the instances while still in level range. And with the reduction in XP needed to advance that is under development, it will now be completely impossible. If you are a quest junky and still want to do them after they turn grey, no one is stopping you but to what effect would you really do this?

A brand new player that picks up WoW today has a ton of content to work through without further additions. An existing player can easily level up 2 characters on very different paths with only about 50% of a content overlap until you hit 40-45 and this is going to change as well.

If you have already levelled 2 characters through the 1-60 range, are you really that interested in new content for 1-60? Wouldn't it be better to have more to do with the ones you already invested time in?

I thought Vati's post was very good. Those changes will help mid level toons reach the upper lvl content. But I still don't think you should keep 60 + toons away (atleast not all the time) from the lower toons. I think its cool when you see a heavily armed lvl 70 when your lvl 30. It makes you want to lvl so you too can have cool gear.

Originally posted by warror

I thought Vati's post was very good. Those changes will help mid level toons reach the upper lvl content. But I still don't think you should keep 60 + toons away (atleast not all the time) from the lower toons. I think its cool when you see a heavily armed lvl 70 when your lvl 30. It makes you want to lvl so you too can have cool gear.

 

 

Hehe, yeah. I remember when I was lvling my first toon it was so exciting to see a maxed out char with some nasty gear pass by... Nowadays if I go somewhere in the old world I almost always take the road and ride it out. You never know... I saved couple of younglings from being ganked or just if they pulled too many mobs... It's kinda nice change of pace from constant bickering and /spit-ing.

Greetings,

I usually read all articles featured on MMORPG.com but rarely comment on them because they are often from passable to good. This time I cannot vent my frustration enough after reading such load of pure absurdities.

The article starts with an explanation to itself: "Is it me or once you hit level 70 do you feel trapped in Outland?". Of course your level 70 and his quests and 'stuff' are trapped in something that is called "Burning Crusade Expansion to the game World of Warcraft". This is an industry! And of course that every 70's quests and 'stuff' are dependant to the fact of you having bought the Burning Crusade or not... Have you noticed how travelling between the original game world bits and the 'old world' parts from the expansion you need to pass through a loading screen disguised as a portal or as a translocation device in-game? I'm sure you did because you did mention that "The upcoming Zul’Aman will take you to the Ghostlands, but that is still a Burning Crusade zone"... of course it does. You have to be a proud (or not) owner of the expansion to experience it! This is the gaming industry at its best.

It's important to let you know that I am a player of many MMO's, including WoW, and I really think that the MMORPG.com portal should have read your article before making it a featured one. It's not just the overal idea that is wrong it's most of the article.

Don't believe me? Here are the alleged solutions to the problem that is not a problem at all:

1. Auction House: "One way Blizzard has forced level 70s back to original cities is by not having an Auction House in Shattrath. That’s blackmail, pure and simple"

- This is plain stupid. How can one travel back in time and still be able to negotiate trades taking place in the future? It's just as stupid as Marty Mc.Fly from Back to the Future opening a store in the present days to sell compact discs to everyone in the past.

2. Discounts and Money: "Maybe huge discounts for being exalted. Hell I’m exalted, prove it to me. As my co-worker Thunderballz said “even when you work at a department store you get 30% off” These NPCs should be begging to fix my armor."  or "Make Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdom questing worth more gold. Would it really hurt the in game “economy” so much to throw players an extra couple of gold a day?"

- Are these solutions for anything than your own self wishes to have an immense stack of gold just to say you do? Everyone knows that unfortunately in any game you make tons of money as you reach the high levels and stick playing those high levels. It's things like creating even more powerful items and more powerful thingies so players can spend their money that really ruin the balancing of a game. And OF COURSE that the in game economy would be hurt, and a lot if you ask me, and we don't have to be financial geeks to know it!

3. More Faction Quests or Daily Quests

- I am unsure of what you mean really but do you have the slighest idea of howhard it is to code and playtest a new quest? Let alone a new faction!? Not to mention the fact that Blizzard is developing a lot more features to come if you take the time to get informed (even if the choice is not good... it's theirs to make)

I could go on making this autopsy to the article at hand but I fear that you would think that I am defending Blizzard which at all I am NOT! I'm just defending logic and the need of us MMORPG.com users to read something that REALLY is a constructive article with constructive criticism.

Want a valid and mature way to bring your high levels home? Learn how to Roleplay and try that.

Originally posted by mportela

Want a valid and mature way to bring your high levels home? Learn how to Roleplay and try that.

I would like more tools to RP, I would also like not having to kill someone when attacking them, just knocking them out, except paladins, all paladins should die!

Originally posted by warror

Yes they forgot the old content. They also forgot to add new content for the lvl 20 - 60 crowd. They should make new lands in Azeroth to get lvl 70s to mingle in the old world. I also had the idea of having a very small portion of outland for the lvl 40 - 45 group (something that is completely seperated from the 60+ Outland) but gets some of the lower lvls to sort of mingle with the upper lvls. I just think the two worlds should interact more.

I agree they have forgotten old content. Although there are many lvling alts there are new peeps as well. There are also many that still don't have have BC and the old content is old. The drops aren't that great either. This seems to be a failing in all games once expansions start.

Another failing is they target the high end/hard-core gamer and forget those who have real lives with work that just won't allow them to spend all those hours raiding. Thus those peeps are stuck and in time they loose interest and even quit games because the fun and joy is gone.

It would be great for them to go back up and spice up the old world and the idea of adding a zone for lvl  40-45 zone in or leading to Outlands would be great. Something to make the game continue for everyone not just the elites.

Very well-written (and argued point).

I understand the concern about being stuck somewhere and when I look back at Dark Age of Camelot, I see some of the same issue there. I can't help wondering whether this is just "nature of the beast", so to speak. Until a game system that is almost a self-generating and evolving world that creates its own environment and situations without the need for hard-core development and full-blown expansions, I think we may be stuck with this.

Part of the problem with any MMO game is that, after any extended play, you know it all. Yes, there are places you've not been, but the "grind" is not that different because the world remains the same. The background story doesn't really evolve on an ongoing basis. Perhaps an AI-managed third faction...?

One thing that DAOC did have that I thought was great was the 3-faction environment. In places such as the battlegrounds and frontiers, you had to watch your back AND sides because you had two enemies to worry about. I prefer the WOW way of integrating and mixing contested territories in between Horde and Alliance, but it would be very nice if one faction could take over a contested area and remain in charge until the other faction took it back, like the frontier system in DAOC.

Whatever does happen, with present technology, keeping everyone happy is virtually impossible. Extending the endgame is a good start though and I'm looking forward to the next release, but I do wonder what will come after that...

Apologies if this is a little rambling. Good discussion!

YAY For World of Snorecraft!!!!