Originally posted by Coldmeat

I have to ask.

Why is everyone hung up on KotOR? What makes anyone think that the aspects of the game that made it a great/fun/duck single player game would translate well, if at all, to an MMO format?

Or is it some naive belief that, despite a decade of evidence to the contrary, Bioware will suddenly be the devs that magically do everything right?

 

People are hung up on KOTOR because the first game by BioWare (second one is not BioWare, but Obsidian Entertainment) is possibly the best Star Wars story ever written having sold I think over 3 million copies and was praised by pretty much everyone.

Why would it translate well to MMO? Because KOTOR is not a game or a story, it is an ERA.  A time period in the Star Wars universe. 'Knights of the Old Republic' is a HUGE and largely unexplored area in Star Wars lore/history allowing developers a LOT more freedom of creativity than SWG did which was set in a 'set in stone/this already happened' period where the end result was known to everyone.  During the KOTOR timeline, there is literally a universe of troubles, adventures and options.

And I have no bloody clue what you mean by "some naive belief that, despite a decade of evidence to the contrary, Bioware will suddenly be the devs that magically do everything right?" because BioWare are most possibly THE finest RPG Developers in the industry... worth almost a Billion dollars it would seem.

Hope that helped.

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Originally posted by DeaconX

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Originally posted by Coldmeat

I have to ask.
Why is everyone hung up on KotOR? What makes anyone think that the aspects of the game that made it a great/fun/duck single player game would translate well, if at all, to an MMO format?
Or is it some naive belief that, despite a decade of evidence to the contrary, Bioware will suddenly be the devs that magically do everything right?
 

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M'kay where to start...
People are hung up on KOTOR because the first game by BioWare (second one is not BioWare, but Obsidian Entertainment) is possibly the best Star Wars story ever written having sold I think over 3 million copies and was praised by pretty much everyone.
Why would it translate well to MMO? Because KOTOR is not a game or a story, it is an ERA.  A time period in the Star Wars universe. 'Knights of the Old Republic' is a HUGE and largely unexplored area in Star Wars lore/history allowing developers a LOT more freedom of creativity than SWG did which was set in a 'set in stone/this already happened' period where the end result was known to everyone.  During the KOTOR timeline, there is literally a universe of troubles, adventures and options.
And I have no bloody clue what you mean by "some naive belief that, despite a decade of evidence to the contrary, Bioware will suddenly be the devs that magically do everything right?" because BioWare are most possibly THE finest RPG Developers in the industry... worth almost a Billion dollars it would seem.
Hope that helped.

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The time period as a setting for a game, sure. The game itself doesn't translate into an MMO very well, because unlike a single player story, you're not the only hero. The story just wouldn't have the same oomph if as you go to confront Malik, there's a party there, and you have to get in line and wait your turn to kill him. And once you remove the storyline from the equation, all you have is a fairly generic RPG.

As for naivity, you illustrate my point perfectly. Just because Bioware made a couple of solid single player RPGs doesn't mean that they will be able to make a good MMO. Yet people seem to insist that because it's Bioware, the game will not suffer from all the other myriad problems all the other MMOs before it suffered. And all the technical limitations as well.

Edit: In terms of setting, Post-RotJ would work well also. And possibly be more likely to draw some of the non-gamer SW fans to the game by way of familiarity, but without the restrictions of the bone-headed timeframe SWG was placed in.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you can do a Star Wars ANYTHING without a license from LucasArts, yes?

If BioWare IS doing an MMO, and they probably are, I hope it will be on the Sci-Fi side of the street.  We don't need yet another WoW competitor with an NWN MMO.  That would be as silly as UbiSoft doing a M&M MMO.  The Ultima games were leveraged first into an MMO, and that worked really well.  Blizzard then leveraged the Warcraft games into an MMO and that worked spectacularly.  The next one either has to be from-scratch, or a different genre (e.g., Fallout, C&C/TA, Homeworld) for it to work because there haven't been any new beloved single-player RPG IPs to leverage in a LONG time.  Just the ones we all know (D&D, M&M, Morrowind, NWN, Elder Scrolls), and those are too much the same as Warcraft in scope/genre to make The Big Splash.

So I think, if BioWare is doing something that would get close to a billion dollars out of EA, it's NOT gonna be a UO/WoW fantasy clone.  Storyline emphasis still wouldn't fly...LotRO is all storyline.  Wouldn't make any sense...not that these big game companies make sense, I know, but a bill is a LOT, even for EA.  Only way it could be a fantasy would be if EA was thinking of closing up shop on UO and needed a replacement.  But then why bother with the complete code revamp that is KR?  So I really don't think BIoWare is doing anything fantasy, nor do I think EA/BioWare is dealing with LucasArts for SWG 2 or KotORO or anything else to do with Star Wars.  It's secret, and imho, it's gonna be new.

I don't know if I'm the only one, but I really hope it is a Baldur's Gate/Forgotten Realms mmo. I am a huge fan of the series, and I was wonder if the possibility is as good as it being a KOTOR mmo.

fallout online thats what i want. kotor is meh.

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Originally posted by DeaconX

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Originally posted by Coldmeat

I have to ask.
Why is everyone hung up on KotOR? What makes anyone think that the aspects of the game that made it a great/fun/duck single player game would translate well, if at all, to an MMO format?
Or is it some naive belief that, despite a decade of evidence to the contrary, Bioware will suddenly be the devs that magically do everything right?

---

M'kay where to start...
People are hung up on KOTOR because the first game by BioWare (second one is not BioWare, but Obsidian Entertainment) is possibly the best Star Wars story ever written having sold I think over 3 million copies and was praised by pretty much everyone.
Why would it translate well to MMO? Because KOTOR is not a game or a story, it is an ERA. A time period in the Star Wars universe. 'Knights of the Old Republic' is a HUGE and largely unexplored area in Star Wars lore/history allowing developers a LOT more freedom of creativity than SWG did which was set in a 'set in stone/this already happened' period where the end result was known to everyone. During the KOTOR timeline, there is literally a universe of troubles, adventures and options.
And I have no bloody clue what you mean by "some naive belief that, despite a decade of evidence to the contrary, Bioware will suddenly be the devs that magically do everything right?" because BioWare are most possibly THE finest RPG Developers in the industry... worth almost a Billion dollars it would seem.
Hope that helped.

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Yeah, what he said. We believe in Bioware mainly due to what they have put out so far...gold. I echo the thought that if anyone knows how to put together a world it's Bioware. It's plain faith in their reliability .

I'm totally banking that it won't be an existing IP, but will be one of a new brand. They could do a Sci-Fi/ Fantasy MMO. Magic vs Machine. But not be of the star-wars universe. Been there, done that.

Well, we won't know till they release some info. Till then we shouldn't torture ourselves with speculation.

It won't be Forgotten Realms, or any of the other old D&D campaign settings, as WotC have a hardon for their new setting that they forced on DDO. Plus, I don't see them allowing competing D&D MMOs.

Same thing goes for Star Wars. Also in response to the Bioware bumpfuzzle festival: Lucas Arts. Say it in the dark five times, and you'll get hit in the head with a crappy game.

I doubt it's Mass Effect, as tieing your MMO to an unproven IP from an unreleased game would be the acme of foolishness. Being that we're talking about an MMO development, though, that also makes it the most likely...

Could be the Fallout MMO, I suppose.

Who knows, it could be some Barbie Dressup gamespace weirdness like Raph is saying is the future...

Originally posted by Coldmeat

 

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Originally posted by DeaconX

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Originally posted by Coldmeat

 

I have to ask.
Why is everyone hung up on KotOR? What makes anyone think that the aspects of the game that made it a great/fun/duck single player game would translate well, if at all, to an MMO format?
Or is it some naive belief that, despite a decade of evidence to the contrary, Bioware will suddenly be the devs that magically do everything right?
 

---

M'kay where to start...
People are hung up on KOTOR because the first game by BioWare (second one is not BioWare, but Obsidian Entertainment) is possibly the best Star Wars story ever written having sold I think over 3 million copies and was praised by pretty much everyone.
Why would it translate well to MMO? Because KOTOR is not a game or a story, it is an ERA.  A time period in the Star Wars universe. 'Knights of the Old Republic' is a HUGE and largely unexplored area in Star Wars lore/history allowing developers a LOT more freedom of creativity than SWG did which was set in a 'set in stone/this already happened' period where the end result was known to everyone.  During the KOTOR timeline, there is literally a universe of troubles, adventures and options.
And I have no bloody clue what you mean by "some naive belief that, despite a decade of evidence to the contrary, Bioware will suddenly be the devs that magically do everything right?" because BioWare are most possibly THE finest RPG Developers in the industry... worth almost a Billion dollars it would seem.
Hope that helped.

---

As for naivity, you illustrate my point perfectly. Just because Bioware made a couple of solid single player RPGs doesn't mean that they will be able to make a good MMO. Yet people seem to insist that because it's Bioware, the game will not suffer from all the other myriad problems all the other MMOs before it suffered. And all the technical limitations as well.

I think Blizzard has shown that non-MMO developers are capable of completely dominating the market from companies that are supposed to be all about MMOs (SOE, Turbine, Mythic, etc.)

Basically...you could replace Bioware with Blizzard in your paragraph and it would show you how ridiculous your sentiments are.

Of course...that all ignores the potential for EA to royally screw up Bioware's level of quality, but we'll just hope that doesn't happen.

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Of course...that all ignores the potential for EA to royally screw up Bioware's level of quality, but we'll just hope that doesn't happen.

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Let's just pray that they won't meddle. Luckily there is evidence that they may have actually learned a thing or two; when EA bought out Mythic they actually gave them additional TIME and MONEY to make the game better.

This also kind of gives a bit of support to the KOTOR theory. Why would EA buy a company out for almost a billion dollars if they were making another fantasy based MMO to compete with their own fantasy based MMO?

If KOTOR a huge ass RPG universe cant turn into an MMO then how did blizzard make the most popular mmo in history from a Real-Time Strategy game.

this was on a different thread but thought it would be more useful here about kotor mmo.

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/49557

Originally posted by sfcore

 

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Of course...that all ignores the potential for EA to royally screw up Bioware's level of quality, but we'll just hope that doesn't happen.

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Let's just pray that they won't meddle. Luckily there is evidence that they may have actually learned a thing or two; when EA bought out Mythic they actually gave them additional TIME and MONEY to make the game better.

This also kind of gives a bit of support to the KOTOR theory. Why would EA buy a company out for almost a billion dollars if they were making another fantasy based MMO to compete with their own fantasy based MMO?

true, it realy seems like every evidence we find majority of them lead to a kotor mmo.

Originally posted by Coldmeat

It won't be Forgotten Realms, or any of the other old D&D campaign settings, as WotC have a hardon for their new setting that they forced on DDO. Plus, I don't see them allowing competing D&D MMOs.

Same thing goes for Star Wars. Also in response to the Bioware bumpfuzzle festival: Lucas Arts. Say it in the dark five times, and you'll get hit in the head with a crappy game.

I doubt it's Mass Effect, as tieing your MMO to an unproven IP from an unreleased game would be the acme of foolishness. Being that we're talking about an MMO development, though, that also makes it the most likely...

Could be the Fallout MMO, I suppose.

Who knows, it could be some Barbie Dressup gamespace weirdness like Raph is saying is the future...

Actually, Turbine has only licensed Eberron and Forgotten Realms is the official campaign for DnD 4.0 (just like Eberron was the official campaign for DnD 3.5 and Greyhawk was for 3.0).  Eberrron was an attempt at WotC to make more money as everyone was simply self-converting all their old FR material.  It failed and they are now admitting it by going back to FR.

As for SW, LA controls the license and retains an enormously tight iron grip on it.  I am certain they only licensed the Galactic Civil War period for an MMO to SOE.

Regarding your comments on Mass Effect, they make no sense.  At the time the MMO was announced Bioware was indenpendent and why not make their IP into an MMO.  They could tell the ground swell of excitement that has been building so it would be a safe bet for them.

Not going to be Fallout as Bethesda now owns those rights.

Barbie Dressup could be the dark horse here, that must be it!

As for the sum of all your posts in this thread it seems more like you are trying to either stir controversy or discussion.  My guess is you're just trolling.

Regardless of what theme they go with, I am quite convinced that EA is after a piece of the WoW pie and will consequently push for yet another shallow, anti-social, itemized grindfest game that we have seen for the past several years.

anyone else thinks that all these little rumors and sudden unknown sources are a planned publicity stunt on the internet by bioware to hype it up even more?  If it is from what it looks like on this site they are doing a good job so far.

Bioware have been known to make awesome, AWESOME, RPG's. The fact that they are making a new MMORPG is enough to build up hype. The fact that they have managed to keep it so secret for so long is just adding fuel to the fire. 

All I want at this point in time is an announcement and an official community forum to text-cry tears of joy with other Bioware fans.

Originally posted by thepatriot

 

Originally posted by Coldmeat

Could be the Fallout MMO, I suppose.

 

 

Not going to be Fallout as Bethesda now owns those rights.

Bethesda will get the rights back if Interplay fails to find funding by 2009 or something like that (don't remember the exact details).

BioWare MMORPG confirmed as KOTOR 3?

Source: Little-known game-news site Primotechnology.com.

What we heard: In March 2006, veteran Canadian developer BioWare announced it was opening a satellite studio in Austin, Texas to prep a mysterious massively multiplayer online role-playing game. Within minutes of the announcement, rumors were already flying that the top-secret project was the third installment in the award-winning Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic series.

Such speculation was fueled further by the fact lead designer James Ohlen performed the same duties on the original KOTOR and several senior members of the studio worked on the Star Wars MMORPG Star Wars: Galaxies. Also, right around the time of the BioWare announcement, Star Wars license holder LucasArts confirmed that it was approached by developers about working an all-new Star Wars MMORPG, but declined to elaborate.

However, rumors of a KOTOR MMORPG petered out, thanks to BioWare's successful attempts to keep virtually every detail about the game under wraps. Now though, they are back, thanks to Primotechnology's claims--which are the first to directly cite a source with knowledge of BioWare Austin's inner workings.

"A source close to BioWare confirmed to us today that the studio's upcoming untitled massively-multiplayer online RPG will be centered around the Star Wars universe, specifically that of Knights of the Old Republic, which the developer released in 2003," read the report. Primotechnology went on to point out the popularity of Star Wars: Galaxies--which was released in 2003 and drastically revised in 2005--is waning. "It's estimated that the game now has fewer than 100,000 subscribers and less than 20,000 active players," said the site without sourcing the numbers.

The official story: In a recent interview, BioWare co-CEOs Ray Muzyka and Greg Zeschuk steadfastly refused to comment on their MMORPG's subject matter (although they did say it was already in playable form). LucasArts followed suit. "LucasArts doesn't comment on rumors or speculation," said the PR rep tasked with handling the publisher's MMORPG efforts.

Bogus or not bogus?: Bogus that anything's been officially confirmed. And with only Primotechnology's word to go on, there's not enough for a concrete call either way. One thing is for certain, though: A KOTOR MMORPG would be huge. Besides being the stuff of nerd fantasies, the game would have a good chance of stealing away weary World of Warcraft players by offering both a sci-fi MMORPG alternative and BioWare's impeccable pedigree.

It's also worth noting that when Electronic Arts bought BioWare/Pandemic for $860 million earlier this month, it cited the BioWare MMORPG as one of the three main motivators for the deal. Ironically, such an arrangement could see EA developing a game for sometime-rival LucasArts--which it dwarfs in size--to publish.

SOURCE: http://www.gamespot.com/news/show_blog_entry.php?topic_id=25996562&sid=6181506

Doesn't it seem a little odd to anyone that Lucas Arts does not outright DENY and DESTROY this rumor?  You would think they would want to 'assure' the people, both those currently playing SWG and those who could be waiting for a better option that may not exist yet, that their partnership with SONY is still stong and SWG 'IS THE SW MMORPG. PERIOD.' [So play that and quit the rumor nonsense!]..... yet they DON'T stand up for SWG, Sony or the future of Star Wars mmorpg. Hmmm.... could just be me!

still neither confirms or deny from LA

this MMO is %99 KOTOR ONLINE for me.