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News & Features Discussion  » City of Heroes: A Look at the 14 Day Trial

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76 posts found
  DrowNoble

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/12/05
Posts: 1283

10/05/07 5:54:04 PM#41

Originally posted by Serling

Annoying timesinks.   Zones designed so they are tedious to traverse and this is WITH superpowered travel abilities!

Nothing says "We need to keep subs up" like having a contact in one zone and a mission two zones and 5 real-time minutes away.


Sounds like you played only early days Heroes missions.  Villains is not like that at all, it is a more linear path with only occasional missions that are elsewhere.  This becomes even less annoying if you are in a supergroup with a teleporter(s).  With the addition of Hollows, New Faultline, Striga and Croatoa your heroes essentially have one zone that you can stay put in doing missions.

The comments about repetative missions to me is misleading.  Can't you essentially boil down any game's quests to that?  Oh WoW is repetative all it is is Kill X mobs, Collect Y items or kill Boss Z.  Of course that wouldn't be very accurate and is over simplified.

  Serling

Novice Member

Joined: 2/06/06
Posts: 671

10/07/07 1:35:35 AM#42

Please try it out, become a Superhero.

Just for grins, I re-subscribed for one month, played for five minutes, then canceled.   I used to have a level 50 blaster til I deleted him with the nerfs, because he simply became unplayable.  My highest level toon is a level 25 Warshade, and let me tell you, the game is so damn dull and such a grind now, even with recommended slotted options under ED, my Warshade (Nova form)  - which used to plow through mobs - is constantly in a life or death struggle with blues and greens!

Soloing slows the game to an absolute crawl.  Teaming ups the XP ante, but invariably leads to people dying and getting debt, which slows their toon's leveling progress.  Everything, EVERYTHING that was done to this game since spring of 2005 - whether it's travel suppression, ED, even the Base and Invention crafting systems - EVERYTHING was done to slow character progression in a transparently cynical move to keep subs up longer while taking away the one thing the game was supposed to be about: SUPER HEROES!

Furthermore, while the devs have gone to great lengths to slow leveling to a god-awful, grinding crawl, they haven't done much to improve quality of life issues.  Transfering influence from one toon to another still requires the use of a trusted third party to act as the middle man.  The catch-22 is that if you don't know anyone, how can you trust someone with thousands of influence just to buy the half-a$$ed enhancements you need to even hope to improve your alt(s)???

Oh, and here's the biggest joke of all: stealth powers were nerfed to keep people from sneaking past mobs to collect mission items because Emmert had a problem with people getting "free XP", as he once wrote on the CoH fora (despite the fact that any "free XP you might have gotten in the game was a mere fraction of whatever it was you actually needed to ding 50: the amount of XP just to get from 49 to 50 was 5 million XP!)

So what do the "geniuses" at Cryptic do???  Allow players to abandon a mission once every 7 days with full credit for successful mission completion!!!  Free XP for doing NOTHING!  At least before, you had to actually go into an instance!  Now you just have to take a mission and abandon it every 7 days.  You eventually get to 50 just doing that, but you'll have paid hundreds of dollars for the "privilege" to do so. 

But again, that's the point: keep you hooked long enough to line their pockets, and screw whether people actually enjoy the game!  They don't care about your fun.  They do care about their bottom line, and insofar as these goals overlap, everyone wins.  Since spring of 05, however, the devs at Cryptic have made it pretty clear where their priorities lie, otherwise they wouldn't have treated their customers like dirt.

I'd like to see them put up an Issue 3 server and see which game people prefer.  But they won't do that because they already know what would happen: people would go back to the game the way it was and actually have more fun playing a super hero. 

At least Smedley apologized for the NGE. Cryptic's customers got screwed and didn't even get a kiss.

Again: EVERYTHING they've done to this game has taken away options for playing it, not added to them, and in the process, they have slowed leveling to an unbearably boring crawl.  Everything in this game is a grind now, whether you're farming salvage, farming XP, or farming influence.  It's all one, long, stale, dated, boring grind, regardless of the type ot character you play.  Because they all feel EXACTLY the same now.

Maybe some of you people like that, but sorry that's not fun for me.

If you're looking for a fun game, don't waste your money on the CoX franchise.  Wait for something better.

  mkpvpks

Novice Member

Joined: 9/09/07
Posts: 37

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

10/07/07 3:06:03 AM#43

CoX is an awesome game.  I can solo any mission on relentless np with my stalker.  Some classes can solo some cant every MMO is like that.  Saying CoX is a grindfest is just silly.  Tell me one MMO that isnt a grindfest and has more than 20 lvls.  I dont play hardcore but I could get a lvl every 10 hours if I wanted.  Saying that farming this or farming that makes the game a grindfest is silly.  Thats why its called farming it takes time to do.  God forbid you dont get instant gratification out of the game.  Maybe earning your lvls and enhancements is what the devs intended.

 

One thing that bothers me is saying they are only out for your money.  Well no sh!t, they dont make these games out of the goodness of their hearts.  These people have families to feed and bills to pay just like the rest of us.  Saying they only want your money because they make you pay a subscription fee is ludicrous.  Just be glad thats not all they want or you would see alot more schemes to get your money while you are playing the game they made.  If they really only wanted money and as much as possible they would add things like equipment you have to pay real money for.  Classes you have to buy to use that no one else can use unless they buy that class too.  Paying to get double exp for a couple days would be a great way for them to earn alittle extra cash.  Want a totally awesome pet almost no one has???  Pay some cash and hes yours.  Dont they add free content every couple months?  Last I checked they did.  Face it if they really wanted your money there is so much more they could do to get every cent out of you.

  Serling

Novice Member

Joined: 2/06/06
Posts: 671

10/07/07 4:24:45 AM#44

Face it if they really wanted your money there is so much more they could do to get every cent out of you.

Besides the fact that no one would pay, they've started doing this very thing with server and name changes.  Ten bucks a name change or to move a toon to another server???  Ouch!

But the point you seem to be missing is that with a subscription-based product, you just need to keep the subs going.  You can do that by making a great game everyone would gladly pay twice as much to play, or you can do it by making a mediocre game that just so happens to be the only one of its kind around (and the fanboys will never let you forget it).

CoX is a mediocre product at best and - if you read any of the other comments about the game on this thread -  you'd notice I'm not the only one writing that it's a horrible grind.  It has no end game for people who get to 50 because - according to Emmert himself - the game isn't about arriving, it's about the journey.  I see.  So then why make it a level-based game at all???

It's because when you create a goal people are going to want to achieve it.  And if you charge a sub and make achieving that goal take as long as you feasibly think you can, you're going to get more money out of people.

Cryptic could care less whether the customers have fun, because it's ultimately all about the marketing.  Sell people on the idea that you can be a virtual super hero, and some people will pay to play no matter how badly the product sucks. 

So they produce a grinder that lets people think they're playing super hero, and they get away with it because - after all - it's "the only super hero MMO in town."  And the reason they can continue to charge subs for this gawd-awful snoozer is because there are just enough people - like you - willing to pay for garbage.

Enjoy!

P.S.  Guild Wars charges no monthly sub and - based solely on sales of the game client alone - has been able to roll out 2 whole stand-alone additional games, an expansion, a mission pack, regular game updates - including a new zone (Sorrow's Furnace, which came out within months after the original's release) and is developing a new MMO that is getting huge run in gamer rags right now: all without charging any sub at all!  Get that?  They made huge coin on GW because it's an excellent product that millions of people want to play.

City of devs rely on the idea that CoX is the only super hero/super villain game in town.  As such, it can afford to suck.  If GW had the kind of grind CoX did, it would've folded a long time ago.  Still, GW has sold more than 4 million units.  Cryptic is happy when they can report 170,000 players.  Big difference.

  DrowNoble

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/12/05
Posts: 1283

10/07/07 4:56:22 PM#45

After reading Serling's comments I have to make a few of my own.

Blasters weren't nerfed, they got defiance before anyone else got their specific AT ability.  Only if you try to keep your health at 5% is this risky to use, my blaster tries to stay around the 30% range and gets a decent damage buff.

If you really did have a 25 warshade, you should be plowing through blues and greens in Nova form.  Unless of course you screwed up your slotting.  I found that 4 slotting Nova itself with 2 tohit buffs and 2 endurance mods is all you really need.  My warshade is 31, but I've kept my Nova nuke powers at 4 slots so I can work on my Dwarf slotting.  I can solo on Rugged and only run in to problems when I meet a Quantum or Void mob.  So I'm guessing you just messed up your slotting if you are "constantly in a life or death struggle with blues and greens".

Soloing is always slower than grouping.  That is a fact in any game.  However, tell a MM that he's going too "slow" when he's running through his missions.  Besides, xp debt is just mildly annoying.  There is actually a cap, so you can only get so much debt.  Not to mention paying off the debt actually earns credit towards a badge.  With the addition of teleporters and temp travel powers from safeguard/mayhem missions the game is, by far, hardly designed to slow down progression.

Quality of life issues are there if you just look for them.  Why do I need to transfer inf to one of my toons?  I can take my 50, drop some 50 enhancements in base storage, logon my alt and have him take them out and sell them.   I've been doing that since CoV came out, i do not have any need for a inf transfer to myself.

Stealth and Invis weren't "nerfed" they were being used to exploit.  Before the change I could take my scrapper, invis and run through a whole mission and click on everything and then "win" without ever fighting a thing.  That isn't what they had in mind, they wanted me to have to fight through the guards.  SO they fixed it.  Besides, you're only visible for 10 secs then you re-stealth.  Position yourself right and you can still click the glowie without aggro.

The drop mission option is hardly "free xp".  It's once a week, not exactly power leveling myself if I rely on that "free xp" now am I?  It was put it for casual people to get passed a mission that can't do alone OR to complete a bugged mission if they don't want to wait for support. 

NCSoft doesn't treat it's customers like dirt.  They added the veteran rewards as a way of saying thanks to those long term players.  They are adding Dual Blades powerset and weapon customization in Issue 11, both of which the players have asked for.  Everyone whines about pre-Issue 3 but the game is better now that it was before.  Now people actually have to think about slotting instead of the "old days" of Accuracy(1) and Damage(5).

If you don't like the pace of leveling then either (1) turn up difficulty or (2) join a team.  Unless you played EQ1 in the old days you have No concept of what grinding really is.  If I need magic salvage for whatever reason, all I need to do is run missions with magic-based mobs.  I can also hit the Market if I am really impatient and just buy the dern thing I want. 

So in conclusion I find your posts Serling to be extremely bitter and very misleading.  I have had issues with SOE before, yet I do not go blasting them on every forum whenever someone mentions them or one of their products.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but yours is laced with resentment and half-truths.

  Serling

Novice Member

Joined: 2/06/06
Posts: 671

10/07/07 8:13:55 PM#46

After reading Serling's comments I have to make a few of my own.

Written like a dev or  fanboy.   Which one are you again?

Defiance is completely stupid and was NEVER needed before ED! 

Soloing is always slower than grouping.  That is a fact in any game.

Demonstrably NOT true.  XP rewards in Guild Wars actually increase for soloers.  But then, with a level cap of only 20, Guild Wars isn't a grind, either. 

Mildly annoying or not, XP debt is PRECISELY designed to slow levelling even further than it already is, adding yet more frustration and grind to an already god-awful grindfest.

My slotting is fine, thank you.  I know how to play the game and the bottom line is my Warshade was more powerful before all the nerfs rolled down on him, as well as all my other toons.

BTW, half the comments you make are in regards to CoV, which I don't own or play.  I didn't and don't have a base or don't belong to any Supergroup, so most of your points don't apply to my situation.  Transfering influence the way people like me have to do it is a waste of time and effort, not to mention extremely risky.

You COMPLETELY missed the point about the stealth nerfs: Emmert decries "free XP" and so nerfs the use of stealth in "find all" missions, only later to give "free xp" to people who abandon missions altogether!   Again, the devs directing players on how players should play the game and how to have "fun" doing it, while hypocritically offering rewards for doing NOTHING!   Sorry, that's just stupid in my book.

Yes, I'm bitter, because I signed up on January 21, 2005 to play a game about super heroes, and spent hundreds of hours and hundreds of dollars to do just that.  Within a couple months, the game was taken in a whole new direction - not unlike the CU and NGE in SWG - and toons I had spent all that time and money to play were trashed by people who don't give a damn about anything but the bottom line.  NCSoft can keep their veteran rewards.  I'll resub in a heartbeat if I can play my toons on an Issue 3 server again, free from all the nerfs this game has experienced.  If I wanted crafting in a game, I'd play Wow. What I'd rather have is the feeling you get from playing a super hero again.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but yours is laced with resentment and half-truths.

And yours are laced with half-truths and an undying love for everything these devs have ever done or will ever do.  Hardly makes your point of view any more "objective" now, does it?

  mkpvpks

Novice Member

Joined: 9/09/07
Posts: 37

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

10/07/07 10:00:08 PM#47
Originally posted by mkpvpks

  Tell me one MMO that isnt a grindfest and has more than 20 lvls.

 

 

Way to argue GW you totally owned me.

 

How long ago was issue 3?  Get over it.  If you dont like it dont play.  Here's an idea get CoV so you can play the full game.

You know if they start a issue 3 server they are going to charge you $10.00 to move your characters to it.

MUWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAAAA!!!!!

  Serling

Novice Member

Joined: 2/06/06
Posts: 671

10/07/07 11:29:27 PM#48

Here's an idea get CoV so you can play the full game.

Yeah, right.  And be twice as bored???  No thanks.

BTW, next time you cite something, make sure you're citing in context.  My point about GW to you wasn't about grind or the lack thereof.  It was to illustrate how a really good ftp game can make a hell of a lot more money than a mediocre grinder, a point that seemed to be completely lost on you.

You know if they start a issue 3 server they are going to charge you $10.00 to move your characters to it.

MUWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAAAA!!!!!

Not if I re-roll on it.  And I'd be willing to bet I'd get to 50 before you do and have a hell of a lot more fun along the way. 

P.S. To all: stop the ad hominem attacks.  I'm discussing the game, NOT you!  I'd appreciate the same consideration!

  mkpvpks

Novice Member

Joined: 9/09/07
Posts: 37

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

10/08/07 2:20:46 AM#49

If GW had the kind of grind CoX did, it would've folded a long time ago.


Context much??

CoX continually puts out free content.  Every 4 months or so they are called Issues.  I pay to play the full version of CoX.  In the full version by that I mean CoH and CoV soloing is simple if you know what you are doing.  SG bases are great and police scanner and paper missions mean I get to pick and choose what type of mission I run.  If I want to make the game more challenging I adjust the difficulty at the fateweaver.  As for infamy and or influence that is no problem either.  If you know how to work the black market you can make 100k in 30min with only 100 to start with.  If you have the full version of the game just transfer enhancements to your alt using your supergroup base and sell them.  As for being the only super hero MMO on the market I dont see anyone coming along to replace them.  CoX doesnt make anyone play their game.  People pay to play because they want to not because its the only super hero MMO.  No one is going to play a game they hate just because its about super heroes.  Id love to think no one is that stupid.

  ArcAngel3

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/25/06
Posts: 2941

Momento Mori

10/08/07 5:00:55 PM#50

Yeah I've gotta say I'm really enjoying myself in CoH, and I've been at it for about a year and a half now.  I love the character creation.  Working on a good build that's balanced for PvP and PvE is kind of a hobby ^_^.  I also really like the costume creation options and how that all works at the tailor shops.

I found the new invention system really added to the game.  Now I'm working on the "right" power set-up, and on getting the right invention sets to enhance those powers.  I've got some nifty winged boots for my ArcAngel character too, a very nice loot drop that came with the inventions.

I like the PvP in Siren's call and in Recluse Victory, especially when there are teams of heroes going up against teams of villains.  The team PvP really rocks the house for me.  I can do it solo with my scrapper, but I just find the team dynamics really add to the fun.

I'm also enjoying the safeguard missions and the new Rikti Warzone a lot for PVE.  They added some variety to the mission types that I find keeps the games interesting for me.  

Two things have really stood out for me in CoH: it's fun and it works.  I very rarely encounter in-game bugs, and when I have (I think on 3 occasions), the customer support has been good.  I got npc characters unstuck within 5 or 10 minutes of submitting a petition.  That was really a pleasant surprise.

Our S.G. has some really excellent people in it, our leader decorates the "batcave" (supergroup base) to match the seasons lol.  It's a lot of fun.  I'm just having a really good time, and thought I'd share -_^.

  UnSub

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/16/04
Posts: 252

10/08/07 11:57:20 PM#51

Having been amused by Serling's wall-of-text commentary on CoH/V, I feel the need to comment on them.

Serling is a good vocal representation of how some players felt about the power nerfs that occurred for some archetypes (ATs) over two years ago. The biggest problem the game faced then was the ATs were horribly unbalanced in some instances. Fire Tanks could take on a whole map of spawns by themselves with no risk. Post lvl 30 or so, Fire Controllers were unstoppable due to their Fire Imps (which has already been mentioned in another post). And there were other overpowered behaviours.

At the same time, other ATs couldn't keep up - as Serling comments, Blasters (although popular) couldn't keep up with certain Tank / Controller damage outputs and had trouble surviving the same situations. So a number of game changes were made that flattened this powergap difference considerably. Some players really, really hated the changes and left. Typically they said that CoH no longer let them be superheroes anymore.

However, imo, the fact that a Tank actually now requires a team to take on a map full of enemies is a good thing and good to the long-term game health of CoH. Yes, some overpowered builds still exist, but they aren't as exceptionally overpowered as they once were. And imo you still feel like a superhero when taking on 3 (or more) enemies at the one time and winning, or sending an opponent spinning over a bannister in full ragdoll mode.

Stealth suppression is no big thing. It just means you can't 'click the glowie' while an enemy is standing right next to you. Serling's comparison of the 'free xp' of stealth supression to the drop-a-mission option isn't valid, given that you have to wait 7 days between a single automatic mission drop (which was put in place to help players out of bugged / problematic missions) but could conceivably run 10 stealth missions an hour, especially with the radio / newspaper mission systems in place. Even with stealth suppression, you could probably do very well if you just wanted to grind out stealth missions.

As for Serling's comments on the state of the game today based on 5 minutes of play: seriously, that's a weaksauce argument. A short-resub after a (long?) break isn't enough to say, "OMG, this game is broken because I can't pwnzz0r the first mobs I came across!". CoH is no longer for Serling - that's fine. But talking about the game two years ago (as well as the tired, tired commentary on Jack Emmert) has little do to with what CoH/V is today.

Also, comparing GW to CoH/V is another weak comparision, since GW is a F2P (after box purchase) PVP orientated game, while CoH/V is a sub-based PVE game. GW can say they have 4 million players since they sold 4 million boxes, but I don't believe they have ever released an active player number. CoH/V has never released  its number of box sales so a direct comparison with GW isn't possible, but they do have (at last measure) 150k odd subs as well as releasing 10 free content updates since launch (I6, or the CoV launch, did have some features that were free to all players, even if they didn't buy CoV). Sub numbers for CoH/V have actually gone up in the past year. Virtue and Freedom are the most populated servers.

So, all in all (and imo) CoH/V isn't the awful nerfed game that Serling likes to make out. Sure, it's not perfect - if all you do is grind missions, then you are going to get very bored - but I've found playing it a few hours a week is pretty fun (and I've been doing that since beta). The community is pretty good, so most pick up groups are at least functional (if not fun to be in) and you can solo as easily as group (and may prefer to solo if you want to maximise your changes of getting salvage drops).

If you are at all interested in CoH/V, do the trial 14 days. At least you can then decide for yourself.

  UnSub

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/16/04
Posts: 252

10/09/07 12:11:08 AM#52

Originally posted by Serling

And yes, there are people addicted enough to the super hero genre that they would pay to play Pong if the ball wore tights.  Such are the kind of people who continue to pay to play that nerfed-up piece of crap called CoH.


If that were true, games like Freedom Force vs The Third Reich would have sold through the roof.

It didn't, and your overgeneralisation is wrong. I'm sure there are some people who obsessively buy every superhero game that comes out. But enough to support an allegedly awful MMO for 2+ years such that it is profitable? That seems very unlikely.

  lmzz

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/06
Posts: 60

?

10/09/07 1:21:24 AM#53

Originally posted by Stradden

 

Originally posted by lmzz

Now, why does MMORPG decide to make an article about the free trial of game as old as CoH? It´s called purchased editorial content. PlayNC obviously paid to get this story out. Not that I care but that´s how it´s gotta be

I'm going to stop you right there. I take major exception to this accusation. Never before has ANY feature content been paid for by ANY game company here at MMORPG.com. The fact that you would imply it is, frankly, insulting.  I take pride in my work and the fact that MMORPG.com doesn't take money for editorial content.

 

I wrote this article because I was playing the game, and thought that it would make a good "At A Glance".  Also, it's my job.

The only "paid for" parts of this site are the advertisements.

I hope that clears things up for you.

Well Jon, what I said was not intended as an attack on you nor was I downing your writing skills. In fact, I enjoy your articles thoroughly and try to read them whenever they´re published. Secondly, PlayNC is on top of the list for me when it comes to technical, ingame and billing support and I always support their games when I mention them to other ppl.

Now, you state that I´m wrong and if I am I stand corrected and I apologize. In my line of work, which is the advertisment business, buying editorial content occurs all the time though and that´s not nec. a bad thing in my world and I just called it as I saw it.

www.excisiongaming.com

Casual PvP & gaming fun for mature gamers

  Serling

Novice Member

Joined: 2/06/06
Posts: 671

10/09/07 1:31:23 AM#54

So a number of game changes were made that flattened this powergap difference considerably.

"Devspeak" and "Fanboy spin" aside, we agree: the game was nerfed to hell.  

BTW, stealth suppression - like travel suppression - was a mechaninc the devs originally created and let the players use FOR MORE THAN A YEAR before deciding it was an "exploit."  I wrote this before, and I'll write it again for your benefit: if it were such a "game-breaking" exploit, as Emmert & Company alleged, why the hell wait MORE THAN A YEAR TO FIX IT???

If you're going to charge a monthly sub for a game, you damn well better have issues like this fixed BEFORE you start charging people to play it.  And if you can't, you better just swallow your pride and think of something else to fix, NOT wait more than a year and decide it's "broken"!

See, what you don't seem to "get" is that when you create a series of expectations, let them become "reality" (in a completely virtual sense), then start charging money to let people play the game, THEN more than a year later completely change how the game is played by TAKING THINGS AWAY FROM THEM, then people should have a right to get pissed about that!

How would you like it if I charged you hundreds of dollars to let you rent my Viper for a week, let you drive it the way YOU wanted for the first hour, THEN replaced it with a Yugo and said, "now go have fun!" 

I'd be willing to bet you'd be b!tching on every auto rental site in the country and - it goes without saying - you'd be awfully pissed at me for screwing you!

You're right: people who start playing the game now won't know how badly the game has been nerfed, and I'd be willing to bet the "brain surgeons" at Cryptic are glad customers - like me - left, so they don't have to read it anymore. 

But my advice to anyone looking to play this game is simply this: don't pay for more than a month at a time, and DON'T let them auto-bill your credit card!  You'll never know when you'll end up feeling the same way I did about this POS and the idiot devs who screwed people like me out of hundreds of dollars, because it WILL happen!  It's only a matter of time.

/end rant

P.S. 42 posts in 3 years?  Is this the name and account you use to refute your critics, Jack???  Just wondering...

  veratutazz

Novice Member

Joined: 10/07/07
Posts: 135

10/09/07 1:59:55 AM#55

 

Originally posted by Serling

If you're going to charge a monthly sub for a game, you damn well better have issues like this fixed BEFORE you start charging people to play it.  And if you can't, you better just swallow your pride and think of something else to fix, NOT wait more than a year and decide it's "broken"!

See, what you don't seem to "get" is that when you create a series of expectations, let them become "reality" (in a completely virtual sense), then start charging money to let people play the game, THEN more than a year later completely change how the game is played by TAKING THINGS AWAY FROM THEM, then people should have a right to get pissed about that!

How would you like it if I charged you hundreds of dollars to let you rent my Viper for a week, let you drive it the way YOU wanted for the first hour, THEN replaced it with a Yugo and said, "now go have fun!" 

I'd be willing to bet you'd be b!tching on every auto rental site in the country and - it goes without saying - you'd be awfully pissed at me for screwing you!

You're right: people who start playing the game now won't know how badly the game has been nerfed, and I'd be willing to bet the "brain surgeons" at Cryptic are glad customers - like me - left, so they don't have to read it anymore. 

But my advice to anyone looking to play this game is simply this: don't pay for more than a month at a time, and DON'T let them auto-bill your credit card!  You'll never know when you'll end up feeling the same way I did about this POS and the idiot devs who screwed people like me out of hundreds of dollars, because it WILL happen!  It's only a matter of time.

/end rant

 

This should be required reading for all MMO fans wanting to be taken seriously when debating games:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_fallacy

 In addition, I would be quite curious to know if anyone can mention a MMO that lasted over 3 years that did *NOT* have a serious re-tuning at some point in the game's life post-beta.

 Here is another link for those of you who are actually (astonishingly) interested:

http://www.logicalfallacies.info/

 

 I respect the right for everyone to have their opinion, and concede that I am not, in any way, an MMO 'expert'.

However, respectfully,  someone thinking that a large 'nerf' or 're-tooling' is unexpected.... perhaps  you should re-evaluate whether or not your 'expectations' are rational.

For the record, I have played at least 3 games that were 're-tooled' whilst i played them & hurt so bad I can remember all 3 situations vividly, and remember being angry.

However, IMHO, in all 3 instances, the overall 'health' of all 3 games was better off after the changes.

In addition, I also think it is implausable to expect devs to figure out all the deviant ways us genius malcontents can break a game using a skill they have handed us by day #1 gold.

 

/2cents

  timesit

Novice Member

Joined: 2/07/07
Posts: 7

10/09/07 2:43:18 AM#56

EVE Online
Time VS Bucks
It airily entered my life. I made the first character on EVE online in 2005. The amazing interface, control, the stars distribute in the galaxies. Everything lets me infatuated. The auto update saved my time a lot. However I need plenty of ISK to buy ships, I have not enough time to rush pirates or mining to get much ISK. The GTC was the best way to change my bucks to ISK. I was told some guys have the better ways to get ISK, I mean the cheaper and quickly transfer, anyone knows?

  Serling

Novice Member

Joined: 2/06/06
Posts: 671

10/09/07 3:02:36 AM#57

Congratulations!  You can cut and paste links!  Kudos!  Now, please lower yourself for a moment to tell us why you think there are logical fallacies in my argument. 

Your defense of this nerfed-up POS is no more objective than my disdain for it and the people who screwed their customers.  Play it if you will, but let others read my warning and take it for what they paid for it.

  User Deleted
10/09/07 4:15:46 AM#58

Originally posted by Serling

Face it if they really wanted your money there is so much more they could do to get every cent out of you.

Besides the fact that no one would pay, they've started doing this very thing with server and name changes.  Ten bucks a name change or to move a toon to another server???  Ouch!

But the point you seem to be missing is that with a subscription-based product, you just need to keep the subs going.  You can do that by making a great game everyone would gladly pay twice as much to play, or you can do it by making a mediocre game that just so happens to be the only one of its kind around (and the fanboys will never let you forget it).

CoX is a mediocre product at best and - if you read any of the other comments about the game on this thread -  you'd notice I'm not the only one writing that it's a horrible grind.  It has no end game for people who get to 50 because - according to Emmert himself - the game isn't about arriving, it's about the journey.  I see.  So then why make it a level-based game at all???

It's because when you create a goal people are going to want to achieve it.  And if you charge a sub and make achieving that goal take as long as you feasibly think you can, you're going to get more money out of people.

Cryptic could care less whether the customers have fun, because it's ultimately all about the marketing.  Sell people on the idea that you can be a virtual super hero, and some people will pay to play no matter how badly the product sucks. 

So they produce a grinder that lets people think they're playing super hero, and they get away with it because - after all - it's "the only super hero MMO in town."  And the reason they can continue to charge subs for this gawd-awful snoozer is because there are just enough people - like you - willing to pay for garbage.

Enjoy!

P.S.  Guild Wars charges no monthly sub and - based solely on sales of the game client alone - has been able to roll out 2 whole stand-alone additional games, an expansion, a mission pack, regular game updates - including a new zone (Sorrow's Furnace, which came out within months after the original's release) and is developing a new MMO that is getting huge run in gamer rags right now: all without charging any sub at all!  Get that?  They made huge coin on GW because it's an excellent product that millions of people want to play.

City of devs rely on the idea that CoX is the only super hero/super villain game in town.  As such, it can afford to suck.  If GW had the kind of grind CoX did, it would've folded a long time ago.  Still, GW has sold more than 4 million units.  Cryptic is happy when they can report 170,000 players.  Big difference.

You cannot be more biased, as such you are only blindly criticizing without reasoning.

First how do you know no one will pay if cryptic do this or that? Pure speculation.

You keep asserting your view that CoX sucks while some others here are less negative.  So what? you do not play it, fine.  You do not need to criticize others as fanboys simply b/c others do not see things your way, and pay to play a game you do not want to pay.  Can we turn the table around and call you hateboy?  Same reason same logic, you are as much hateboy as the subscribers are fanboy.

Cryptic could care less ... oh you know Mr Cyptic in person?  A business who do not care about its clients will not last so many years, not with competition.  Is CoX the only fancy game? is CoX the only shooting game? is CoX the only what?  I have many games I can play, including console games.  I choose to play CoH for 1.5 years and later CoV for almost a year.  That is my choice with my money, why slam me and others for playing it?  Its bad to you, its fun to me during those days, period.  I do not need you to educate me on what is fun.  I respect your views, but not the way you put it across.  It borders on dictatorship.

"and the reason why they can charge subs for this gawd aweful snoozers is that there are enough people ... to pay for this garbage".  Watch your words!  What make you the ultimate judge on what is good and worth spending money on?   You can tell me how much you do not like it, I will try to read your words and judge for myself, why do you feel so upset when you see a lot of people not agreeing with you and continue to sponsor Cryptic?  You have a personal grudge with Cryptic?

GW and CoX are two very different types of games, and 2 ways of doing business.  It is hard to give a simple ruling on which is better, I did played both, but CoX gave me better memories.  That is my view.  Why?  b/c there is far more customisation and variety ingame than the GW for PVE.  GW's first installments are pure PVP fests in my view, the PVE is a joke, its all instancing, so you can only interact with people inside towns, or the few you take with you into the instance.  And the instance is really "fun"n GW, one linear route, you cannot deviate from the route.  You cannot explore, its just a one way lane with fixed mobs and one linear story line.  Sorry this is not my cup of PVE.  As for PVP, well GW is fun for a while but the PVP maps are not varied enough and I left the game early.  It never kept me interested enough to wait for the first expansion.

I do not agree with your ranking of GW way above CoX.  But I respect your judgment, and I would not bash you or label you a fanboy.  To each his own.  Try learn to respect mine and others' view.

  User Deleted
10/09/07 4:20:17 AM#59

Originally posted by Serling

Congratulations!  You can cut and paste links!  Kudos!  Now, please lower yourself for a moment to tell us why you think there are logical fallacies in my argument. 

Your defense of this nerfed-up POS is no more objective than my disdain for it and the people who screwed their customers.  Play it if you will, but let others read my warning and take it for what they paid for it.

We heard your views, many times, maybe too many times.  Your choices of words "nerfed-up POS" ...  and the forceful brutal impolite way of presentation in all previous replies, all these leads us to suspect your claim of "objectivity".

Yes opinion is not objective, but to put it across in such an arrogant manner is not very persuasive.

  DrowNoble

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/12/05
Posts: 1283

10/09/07 10:57:04 AM#60

This will be my last reply to Serling, who obviously doesn't understand what I've said before, doesn't care about what I said before or just is very bitter about NCSoft in general.

Neither dev nor fanboy here.  Starting off your post with cheap immature insults is certainately not the way to start off a mature rebuttal. 

Defiance is hardly "stupid" which seems to make me believe more you don't actually have a 50 blaster.  It was added back when blasters were "the squishies" to give them a little something to make them unique.  Never try to maintain the full bonus at 5% health, that would just show you don't know how to play a Blaster.  If you want to talk "stupid" Defenders' ability is rather weak, does little unless you're in a large team.

Soloing is slower than grouping, even in Guild Wars.  Even if someone goes "solo" they rarely actually go with just their character, taking some NPCS or the Hero NPC introduced with Nightfall.  So if you go with a full team of NPCS you aren't actually soloing.  Just this time the other group mates are AI controlled instead of player.

XP Debt is a penalty for dying.  Most games have some kind of penalty if you die, some harsh some not.  EQ1 you die your body, with all your gear, lies at the feet of the mob that ate you.  You lose xp, possibly a level as well.   WoW you die you have to run back to the instance and take a small hit to item durability.  These are probably the 2 extremes, so in that respect XP Debt is closer to WoW's so is "mildly annoying".  Plus as I said paying off debt earns credit towards a badge.  For the impatient people exemplar down and get it paid off twice as fast.  If NCSoft designed XP debt as a way to slow leveling, then why did they half all XP debt you get inside missions?  Would seem to defeat the "purpose" of your slow level grind theory.

You said your WS slotting is fine.  If so, why do claim to have problems with greens/blues yet people playing Khelds now do not have the same trouble?  If I get a Defeat X mission. or join a team with one, I purposely look for large groups of Mob X and nuke em down with my Nova.  Nuke powers are Acc(1) and Dam(3), so they will actually get better once I'm satisfied with my Dwarf slotting and begin to allocate accordingly.  Only problem I would have is if there are Quantums or Voids in the group, which would be expected.

I would have to say you completely missed the point of Stealth as well.  Also you seem to be hung up on dropping missions as "free xp".  Previously my Scrapper with Invis could complete a Click X Glowies mission in a couple minutes.  In theory if all I got were those kinds I could complete a whole story arc in under a half hour.  That was not what they intended so they fixed it.  They intended Mission X to be a climactic battle with The Bad Guy and then you get Item Z back, instead people were walking behind him and clicking on a glowie for Mission Complete. 

Now the drop mission is once per week, I can not fathom how you think that once per week is somehow giving away "free xp".  Some missions can't actually be dropped if they lead to a story arc reward or AV usually.  This wasn't put in to reward people for doing nothing this was to assist players with getting by (1) a mission they have trouble doing or (2) a bugged mission they don't want to wait for support for.

You say you didn't want crafting so the game sucks.  The crafting isn't at all like WoW, if you were actually playing you'd know that.  I didn't want the Arenas yet I kept playing.  You really long for the days where slotting all was Attack powers 1 acc, 5 dam?  Where archtypes had no unique abilities?  Brutes may take exception to losing Fury and Tankers would be unhappy losing aggro to the 1acc/5dam blaster that can't stop over nuking.  The days where the whole team zones in, stands there with Boombox emote, while the Invis guy goes and clicks on the glowies... Mission Complete. 

Finally in conclusion there is no "undying love" for the devs.  I gave detailed points and counter points to support my opinion.  I pointed out flaws and inaccuracies and was "fanboy attacked" for it.   You admitted you're bitter so there will be nothing more I can say.  Continue your ranting, I will move on to another thread. 

Good day.

 

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