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Off-Topic Discussion  » IQ and the Wealth of Nations

20 posts found

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/20/04
Posts: 723

OP  8/05/07 4:30:03 AM#1

I had always suspected there were some wide racial/geographical variations in IQ, and recently I found this article. The chart is interesting in itself (though its accuracy is debated, as explained), but still, you've got to wonder how much can realistically be accomplished to improve the lives of peoples whose average IQ hovers around the region classified as 'Mentally Retarded' (60 or <).


Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 1405

8/05/07 4:51:39 AM#2

  I always knew polish folk were smart, despite the stereotype.  Go Poland, take that US :P  I am a citizen of both so I have the right to make fun of them :P

  This makes sense, dumb people , less money.


Novice Member

Joined: 6/12/07
Posts: 242

8/05/07 4:54:40 AM#3

That's 100% pseudoscience, and very poorly made too.


Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 1405

8/05/07 5:06:30 AM#4

It's obviously a theory based on evidence. Care to explain its faultiness ?  Just because something is controversial or doesnt fit in with the idea that all people are the same doesnt make it a pseudoscience.


Novice Member

Joined: 7/22/06
Posts: 3396

8/05/07 5:16:18 AM#5

It depends on how the IQ test is administered.  The main argument is that its not a proper measurement of intelligence because of cultural differences.  However, the methods used today are actually a neutral method because they don't test a person's knowledge but rather how they gather information, and evaluate and solve situations.


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Joined: 6/04/05
Posts: 2458

"The best argument against democracy is a 5-minute talk with the average voter." Winston Churchill

8/05/07 5:18:38 AM#6

Ehem. It's not a bad theory. Tho the importance of IQ is highly overrated.


It makes sense that countries which have suffered generations without any propper education would find it reflected in its populations IQ. And of course GDP corelates with the level of education.

But my personal interpretation is that it takes generations (not too much actually) for a countries IQ (lol, the concept is pretty ridiculous) to rise.

So a country which would have had several generations of A educational system (which isn't all that common) would have a much better chance of having a higher IQ.


But frankly I think the effects of this national IQ are overrated and very dubious. You'd have to test millions of people for any reasonable level of accuracy.


Novice Member

Joined: 11/19/03
Posts: 7445

The enemy is so dumb! They believe that WE are the enemy! - A famous orc commander.

8/05/07 5:30:40 AM#7

I think this study got it's wrong.


Wealth allow you to developp your IQ and do stuff that rise it, while if you are poor, you have other things to consider then raising your IQ.


Finally, IQ is extremely suggestive and only encompass some aspect of someone intel...considering I score HIGH on it and that most raiders think I am a retarded...see, IQ tests are subjective.


Does a specific social knowledge has it place in a IQ test?  It is wholy debatable, but IMO all knowledge and all intellectual process to solves any problematic (be it mathematical or social) is a form of intellect.  Most IQ test won't ask any question about how to solve a social problematic, the worst social geek that wouldn't be able to walk outside of a bar in Texas alive could score 300 on a IQ test and still be unable to accomplish the most basic social tasks.


IQ tests favor some groups of individuals, by focusing on some aspect of the intel, some rational aspect...which is only a facet of intelligence.  See, women are usually better then men at doing multiple tasks at the same time without wasting any, isn't that part of intelligence?  I think so.  Is it part of any IQ test?  Not that I know off.


As to giving it a value and comparing it to everyone else...when a valid IQ test should always have a final score of 100 in average.  Since it will be developp by some individuals, it will usually favor peoples with a similar background, peoples which learn the same stuff.  An IQ test could be designed in order to favor nature-centric folks and have an average of 100 in Sweden...I am pretty sure that the World average afterward on it would be under 70, not even considering any translation mishaps.  Been able to use more then 1 language is definitely part of an IQ test...or should it have a different entry althogether?  If a guy speaks 8 languages, he is definitely above the average even if he can't do the simplest logical maths equation.

- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - René Levesque about the denial NO on the poll to his dream, project and goal. (Free translation)


Advanced Member

Joined: 1/30/06
Posts: 5042

"The one you call messiah is a lie"--- Gary Numan

8/05/07 5:49:12 AM#8

If welath makes you more intelligent how come Paris Hilton is so dumb?

I'd say it's about opportunities.

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"

CS Lewis


Novice Member

Joined: 7/10/03
Posts: 357

8/05/07 5:52:30 AM#9

IQ is subjective.

Education should not come into play. A person will acquire/gain more information about what they are educated on. Education does not necessarily raise their IQ. The way a person uses their thought process is much more a factor.

Your brain is what it is and each individual will develop that brain within their own life experiences. These experiences can help them cope with day to day life but their IQ will be what it is and has been. They can 'score' higher due to these experiences, formal education included.

It is also subjective in result with the actual IQ 'Test'. This 'test' will have different results according to language as well as life experiences. To some extent there will be different answers to the same questions but that is a result of these life experiences. They will answer questions according to what they have experienced and how they dealt with it.

IQ tests are subject making the results subjective. One will never get a true evaluation of any nations average IQ. The 'list' is subject as a result and cannot be used as a viable comparison.

It is interesting and a good topic of debate. A debate that cannot be absolute...



Novice Member

Joined: 6/12/07
Posts: 242

8/05/07 6:12:43 AM#10

Originally posted by Airspell

It's obviously a theory based on evidence. Care to explain its faultiness ? 

And that's exactly where it fails. If you take a closer look, you'll find out that the IQ statistics used are everything but scientific, for example results for Equatorial Guinea were estimated from a study about group of retarded kids. And that's just one example, that book is full of estimations, manipulation of statistics etc. All common in pseudoscientific studies.



Novice Member

Joined: 3/09/06
Posts: 741

8/05/07 6:27:21 PM#11

If you think that the results of this book are meaningful then you have just displayed a low IQ. I wont tell you why, because if you know the results are not meaningful, the why is self-evident. If you do not understand why the results are not meaningful, then you are unlikely to understand (or believe) the explanation.

People keep making tables and claims like these. The one for the supposed IQs of all the US Presidents comes to mind. Sensationalism at its best (worst), I guess.


Novice Member

Joined: 8/01/07
Posts: 7

8/05/07 6:36:22 PM#12

Wow... What a load of bullshit. Wealth makes people somehow more intelligent? Obviousely education might take place, such as you won't compare a kid who hasn't been educated to one who has. I'm Iraqi myself, my IQ is 127.

Can't be asked to explain to why that is incorrect.


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Joined: 3/12/05
Posts: 1307

i live

8/05/07 7:09:16 PM#13

Originally posted by shcndw

Wow... What a load of bullshit. Wealth makes people somehow more intelligent? Obviousely education might take place, such as you won't compare a kid who hasn't been educated to one who has. I'm Iraqi myself, my IQ is 127.

Can't be asked to explain to why that is incorrect.

You've got it ass-backwards...


intelligence makes one wealthier...unless you're a philosopher.


Novice Member

Joined: 3/03/07
Posts: 1140

8/05/07 7:45:48 PM#14

Interesting article, but take a look at all the criticisms it got, I wouldn't regard that study as being factual. If you're gonna do something like this, you have to follow scientific method, and set the variables, otherwise it ends up as a complete crock, judging by the way it's done, the author sounds like a bit of a hack.

  User Deleted
8/05/07 8:46:08 PM#15

And people wonder why the scientific community doesn't take psychologists seriously..



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Joined: 7/15/03
Posts: 3112

All that is needed for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

8/05/07 9:58:50 PM#16

So what we can conclude is...If you're asian, you're bound to have a fair IQ. If you're from Hong Kong, you're bound to be more intelligent than the rest of your Chinese counterparts. If you're white, you're average. If you're hispanic, middle-eastern, or black, you're bound to be near retarded.

Hrm. A segregationist's wet dream.

Slightly offensive? I wonder...

"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis

"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979


Novice Member

Joined: 3/12/05
Posts: 1307

i live

8/05/07 11:21:07 PM#17

Originally posted by Finwe

So what we can conclude is...If you're asian, you're bound to have a fair IQ. If you're from Hong Kong, you're bound to be more intelligent than the rest of your Chinese counterparts. If you're white, you're average. If you're hispanic, middle-eastern, or black, you're bound to be near retarded.

Hrm. A segregationist's wet dream.

Slightly offensive? I wonder... (The truth hurts.)  

That about sums it up Finwe.


@ the OPer: This new information further justifies my adulation of Korean chics! Thanks buddy!


Novice Member

Joined: 11/13/05
Posts: 2272

8/06/07 12:02:37 AM#18

Hong Kong maintains a highly capitalist economy built on a policy of free market, low taxation and government non-intervention. You can get everything you need to legally start a business there in a matter of mere days. Of course people with high IQs will thrive, migrate, multiply, and simply develop there.

While on the other end you have Africa being run by nasty regimes who own everything and militarily keep the people poor, and of course education simply can't advance. Often it can be extremely long and take lots of resources to get all the permits and licenses to be allowed by the government to run a business that it is simply not feasible for most people.

I can't wait for the liberals to tell me how evil businesses are.

"When Saddam flew that plane into those buildings, I knew it was time to kick some Iranian ass!"
-cheer leading, flag waving American


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Joined: 5/26/05
Posts: 270

John Romero is about to make you his bitch... Suck it down.

8/06/07 12:29:17 AM#19

This ENTIRE study is going on the belief that the IQ test is accurate and dependable. I would not put any kind of intellectual stock in IQ tests, since they normally cannot measure mental capacity very well, only knowledge that could very well differentiate between countries. So that part in itself is invalid. And if anyone bothered to look at the entire Wiki, it is also suggested that some countries were represented with a sample size of <100, which is laughable in regards to populations that usually well exceed the million mark. I've personally seen things related to this study, and you simply cannot correlate money with intelligence. As you can see, the U.S.A. has a relatively low IQ mark compared to other European nations, yet the American GDP is the largest in the world (excluding the E.U., which is really only a supranational identity). This is due to several underlying factors, like human willpower and ingenuity. Americans are considerably "dumber" than other populaces, yet they have means to utilize their knowledge to the fullest extent, and this is why some countries with lower IQ averages seem to be wealthier than others, simply because people in other countries don't have the tools to realize their full potential, whether its physical, or mental. Anywho, that's my take on the subject. (Think about people like Mr. G.W. Bush, they aren't intelligent, but they know how to twist around and become successful anyway). 


Advanced Member

Joined: 3/20/04
Posts: 723

OP  8/06/07 7:20:38 AM#20

- deleted by author -