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Vanguard: Saga of Heroes

Vanguard: Saga of Heroes 

General Discussion  » SOE's new strategy might be a bad thing for VG

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75 posts found
  Lidane

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/08/07
Posts: 2251

 
6/12/07 5:31:18 AM#1

Yesteday's New York Times had a rather interesting article about SOE that gives some clue about what their gaming focus is going to be, and it doesn't bode well for Vanguard, I'm afraid.

The original article can be found here: www.nytimes.com/2007/06/11/business/worldbusiness/11sony.html

Because registration is required at the NYT site, I'm copying and pasting the text below:

------------------------------

Sony’s Other Games Division Makes Push in New Direction

By SETH SCHIESEL

Sony has a long and colorful history of failure on the Internet. But there has been a bright spot, one Sony operation — Sony Online Entertainment, based in San Diego — has built a legitimately innovative and successful Internet business.

Think of it as Sony’s other video game operation. The ups and downs of the company’s famous PlayStation division are well known, as it struggles to maintain its dominance in home consoles over Microsoft and Nintendo. But tucked within the relative obscurity of Sony Pictures Digital Entertainment, the online entertainment unit has grown into a profitable business with revenue in the $150 million range (the company does not break out exact results for the division) by creating and publishing a variety of subscription-based online computer games.

The problem is that the company’s first huge hit — EverQuest, released in 1999 — remains its only genuine blockbuster, with around 250,000 users. (The company used to report subscriber figures, but stopped a few years ago.) A competing online game, World of Warcraft, made by Blizzard Entertainment, of Irvine, Calif., has, meanwhile, practically reshaped the game industry by attracting an enormous eight million paying users around the world.

So today, Sony Online intends to unveil its plan to retake leadership in online gaming by unveiling three new games in development. More broadly, the new games represent an attempt to broaden the company in four major ways: diversifying its business model, expanding the demographic profile of its customer base, moving into the console market in addition to making games for PCs and increasing its presence in Asia.

“Right now our revenue is almost all subscriptions,” John Smedley, the unit’s president, said in an interview. “In two years, we would like to see no more than 50 percent of our revenue coming from subscriptions, and five years from now we think less than 10 percent of our revenue will come from subscription sources.”

At the same time, Mr. Smedley said he wanted to diversify his customer base, which is 85 percent male and 32 years old, on average. Women have become the major driver of the casual games business (games like Bejeweled and Bookworm), and Mr. Smedley wants a piece of that action.

“We want to get our average age lower, probably into the low 20s, and I’d really like to see the gender breakdown go to 50-50 or even slightly more women than men, to reflect real life,” he said.

Sony Online’s new direction can perhaps be seen most clearly in a game the company intends to announce today called Free Realms.

In general, Mr. Smedley wants to replace subscriptions with a combination of microtransactions, advertising and what he calls the “velvet rope” approach. All three concepts may come to bear in Free Realms, which the company hopes to release on PCs this coming winter and on the PlayStation 3 next summer.

While the company’s traditional fantasy and science-fiction games have been aimed at a hard-core male audience, Free Realms is basically aimed at children, especially girls. The game will be free to play in general, but will require paid membership for access to special zones and activities (hence the term “velvet rope”). In terms of microtransactions, players will be able to buy virtual in-game items like pets and clothing à la carte. And there may also be advertising inside the game.

To reach out to girls, Mr. Smedley realized he had to hire more women. The creative director and art director on the game are now women.

“I just can’t explain to a 30-year-old single male why 10-year-old girls like horses,” he said. “We were trying to figure out what pets to put into Free Realms and before, the lead designer was a guy and he definitely wanted things that could fight. And when we got more women on the team, it was like ‘No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there.’ ”

The company also recognizes that among hard-core gamers there is a bit of fatigue with the elves, dwarves and orcs that seem to populate the dozens of fantasy-based online games. So in its first game for the PlayStation 3, called The Agency and due next summer, Sony Online is branching out into a relatively untapped genre for online games: spies and commandos.

“Think of it as ‘24’ meets Counter-Strike meets ‘Alias’ meets James Bond,” Mr. Smedley said.

His boss, Yair Landau, vice chairman of Sony Pictures and president of Sony Pictures Digital Entertainment, said: “We are clearly moving beyond men in tights with broadswords. Women in cocktail dresses and stilettos and men in tuxedos with silencers is a very natural place for Sony Online to be expanding.”

Another natural place for Sony Online to expand is Asia. Online PC gaming (as opposed to consoles plugged into televisions) has become the main form of gaming across Asia outside Japan, especially in China and South Korea. In fact, World of Warcraft has more subscribers in China than in the United States. Sony Online, however, has had practically no presence in Asia, primarily because EverQuest just does not appeal to Asian gaming tastes.

------------------------------

Basically, what it comes down to is that as a company, they're moving away from the older veteran MMO player, and towards a younger, more casual, more console-driven audience. They're looking to expand their customer base to include women, the Asian market, and younger players, and away from high fantasy, sword and sorcery games that only appeal to older, more hardcore gamers.

In other words, they're moving away from games like Vanguard.

And the players that might be interested in VG are the ones they're trying to expand away from, not cater to, as a company. RMT's and microtransactions, in-game ads, more casual content, etc. seems to be the way they're going to go now.

I'm curious to see what will happen to VG, since SOE's focus as a company is now geared towards audiences that simply aren't interested in games like Vanguard. Will they polish up the optimization and performance, then leave the game largely to its own devices, or will they actually put some effort into it, even though their priorities are directed elsewhere? Only time will tell, but it doesn't look good.

 

  deucallion

Novice Member

Joined: 2/14/07
Posts: 188

<insert witty, macho geek blather here>

6/12/07 5:46:08 AM#2
Vanguard: the red-headed stepchild of MMOs.  And it had such promise too, a shame really.  The Man really let us down with this one.
  arctarus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/26/06
Posts: 2418

6/12/07 5:46:59 AM#3

*tee hehe*

I think its better not to have anymore connections with SOE anymore, still thinking i can go back to VG in a few months time...  /sign....

RIP Orc Choppa

  eugam

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/15/07
Posts: 970

Something must have happened to the gene pool lately...

6/12/07 6:27:54 AM#4
I dont think SoE plans for the future have anything to do with vanguard. I just wont hold my breath for EQ3. I think EQ, EQ2 and vangaurd will be the sword&sorcery part of SoE for quite a while. EQ and EQ2 still release expansions and those sell with success. This wont stop as long as people play the games. Vanguard is in a bad shape, but if the DEVs manage to make it a game people like to play on a long term, then there will be expansions every year. No company drops games that still earn money, SoE just told us something about their future expansion as a company.
If i was a CEO i would most probably go toward younger players too. There has to be a playerbase in future. Right ? Sheesh... if they release a game for girls where you start to be a super model or a fashion designer i will play it if the fashion crafting is cool If they manage to release a game where you either progress as model or as kinda James Bond it could really be a good game with lost of fun ...
  Urdig

Novice Member

Joined: 5/20/07
Posts: 1263

I do wish I didn''t still miss her.

6/12/07 6:38:29 AM#5

It just means they want to expand into other markets, ones that should provide better profits and allow for a more diverse payment model. 

They want to GROW.  Growning doesn't imply cutting back work on projects that you already have, it means taking new aproaches to future projects.

This doesn't effect VG or any of the other MMO's, it effects the games that SOE will produce in the future.

It means more diversity.

The sky isn't falling, and this isn't going to hurt VG. 

Nice try.

Wish Darkfall would release.

  sepher

Novice Member

Joined: 6/10/06
Posts: 3548

6/12/07 6:56:06 AM#6
Originally posted by Urdig

It just means they want to expand into other markets, ones that should provide better profits and allow for a more diverse payment model. 

They want to GROW.  Growning doesn't imply cutting back work on projects that you already have, it means taking new aproaches to future projects.

This doesn't effect VG or any of the other MMO's, it effects the games that SOE will produce in the future.

It means more diversity.

The sky isn't falling, and this isn't going to hurt VG. 

Nice try.

If they're going to reduce company revenue from subscriptions down to 50% in two years, then of course some huge changes are going to happen to their current games. What else are they going to change in two years time? Unless you believe it's possible for SOE to release enough MMOs that absolutely use no form of traditional subscriptions in the span of two years, and pump out an equal amount of revenue as Station Access, then all of that microtransaction, RMT, velvet rope stuff is going to definitely apply to their current line-up.

It's going on a decade since the original Everquest, and SOE has yet to figure out how to equal that success. I doubt they'd be so brazen as to say they're going to squash the company revenue earned by Station Access down to 10% with new subscription-less games in five years. Newer games will contribute to the change, but obviously SOE will have to change their current business model, which means changing the way existing games like Vanguard earn money. Anyone who plays should hope so, how much could a company care about a game earning them single digit percentiles of their revenue?

As for whether Vanguard will be neglected while attention is being paid to newer game focuses; "neglect" might be a harsh word, but obviously Vanguard isn't their focus and won't receive anything near the flagship treatment a 4 month old game needs.
  Reklaw

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/07/06
Posts: 4588

Freedom is the will to be responsible to ourselves.

6/12/07 7:07:22 AM#7
Originally posted by Lidane

------------------------------

Basically, what it comes down to is that as a company, they're moving away from the older veteran MMO player, and towards a younger, more casual, more console-driven audience. They're looking to expand their customer base to include women, the Asian market, and younger players, and away from high fantasy, sword and sorcery games that only appeal to older, more hardcore gamers.

In other words, they're moving away from games like Vanguard.

And the players that might be interested in VG are the ones they're trying to expand away from, not cater to, as a company. RMT's and microtransactions, in-game ads, more casual content, etc. seems to be the way they're going to go now.

I'm curious to see what will happen to VG, since SOE's focus as a company is now geared towards audiences that simply aren't interested in games like Vanguard. Will they polish up the optimization and performance, then leave the game largely to its own devices, or will they actually put some effort into it, even though their priorities are directed elsewhere? Only time will tell, but it doesn't look good.

 


As far i could understand is they not moving away from anything but going into different market area's, the younger and girl gamers. Expanding as a company, looking for more way's to GET YOUR MONEY .

Anyway not much fear here in regards of Vanguard, since SoE seems to be the profitable source of Sony where the articel shows Sony itself is not but SoE is.

But hey! only time wil tell

------------------------------------------------------------
YOU do not need to agree with me as I am only SHARING my own opinion which can be different from yours. Thanks to forums we can share our opinions and discus them.

  Lidane

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/08/07
Posts: 2251

 
6/12/07 7:20:33 AM#8


Originally posted by sepher

If they're going to reduce company revenue from subscriptions down to 50% in two years, then of course some huge changes are going to happen to their current games. What else are they going to change in two years time? Unless you believe it's possible for SOE to release enough MMOs that absolutely use no form of traditional subscriptions in the span of two years, and pump out an equal amount of revenue as Station Access, then all of that microtransaction, RMT, velvet rope stuff is going to definitely apply to their current line-up.


Exactly.

For SOE to start shifting over their revenue base for their games from a strict subscription model to one where half of their income comes from things like in-game ads, RMT's, and microtransactions within two years means that they're not only going to look at the games they've got coming down the pipeline, but the games they have now as well.

While it's nice to think that all of that article only applies to games coming out in the future, a more realistic possibility is that all of their current games will also be affected by this new model. Heck, from what I've heard, it's already started. EQ2 supposedly has RMT's for in-game items already. Why would Vanguard be exempt from that in the future?


It's going on a decade since the original Everquest, and SOE has yet to figure out how to equal that success. I doubt they'd be so brazen as to say they're going to squash the company revenue earned by Station Access down to 10% with new subscription-less games in five years. Newer games will contribute to the change, but obviously SOE will have to change their current business model, which means changing the way existing games like Vanguard earn money. Anyone who plays should hope so, how much could a company care about a game earning them single digit percentiles of their revenue?

That's exactly the point. It's not just a future plan, but one that is an over-arching change in direction from the top down.

With SOE's fundamental business model being shifted over from a subscription only service to one that is more geared towards only 10% of their revenue being subsciber based within five years, that puts games like Vanguard at a much higher risk, and severely limits their shelf life.

Instead of merely retaining StationPass subs as the goal, it changes over to seeing how much money is brought in through RMT's, ads, and microtransactions for in-game items. If a game isn't profitable, and isn't bringing in significant money, then it gets the axe. The days of a game just hanging around for years on end might just be coming to an end, and the actual profitability of a title will determine if it stays or goes.


As for whether Vanguard will be neglected while attention is being paid to newer game focuses; "neglect" might be a harsh word, but obviously Vanguard isn't their focus and won't receive anything near the flagship treatment a 4 month old game needs.

Right. It's fairly blatant now, with this article, that SOE's focus is turning away from games like VG, and towards a younger, more casual, more console driven crowd. That's not a good sign for a 4 month old game.

Obviously, it's too soon to tell what kind of effect this will all have. But let's be realistic here-- VG's clearly not a priority now, and won't be if the stated goal of SOE is to move away from the older gamers they've attracted thus far and towards a younger crowd.

  Lidane

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/08/07
Posts: 2251

 
6/12/07 8:26:44 AM#9


Originally posted by Urdig

The sky isn't falling,


I never said it was. I'm saying this could be problematic for VG.


and this isn't going to hurt VG.

It's a bit too soon to make a definitive statement, don't you think? They just recently talked about this new strategy, and their entire business model is going to be changing in the next few years. I wouldn't be so quick to assume that Vanguard will remain untouched by any of it, since it's such a fundamental change to the way SOE does business.

  Zooomg

Novice Member

Joined: 6/06/07
Posts: 86

Vanguard: the game that truly sucked!

6/12/07 9:10:33 AM#10
Originally posted by Urdig

It just means they want to expand into other markets, ones that should provide better profits and allow for a more diverse payment model. 

They want to GROW.  Growning doesn't imply cutting back work on projects that you already have, it means taking new aproaches to future projects.

This doesn't effect VG or any of the other MMO's, it effects the games that SOE will produce in the future.

It means more diversity.

The sky isn't falling, and this isn't going to hurt VG. 

Nice try.



LOL  ... this won't impact Vanguard ... yeah right !!!! lol
  Teala

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/16/04
Posts: 6826

"Really officer, they're herbs."

6/12/07 9:12:46 AM#11

I am not sure this is actually going to hurt VG.  It seems they are trying to diversify their business so that they can branch into other aspects of online gaming.  I really am actually hyped aboutwhat he said regarding female gamers.   I know some of you won't understand this, but this is a good thing, and it looks like they might actually pull it off if they play their cards right.     If they are going to shoot for the young female age bracket they'll seriously have to split this into multiple age catagories.   For instance 12-13, 14-15, 16-20, 21-25.  We're complicated, what can I say.   :p

You know they could take shows like Totally Spies and make a cool MMORPG out of it that would attract young females...OMG my daughter would love that - so would I for that matter.   It would be really awesome to play a game based on that IP with my daughter.  She loves that show.   It's not really all that violent and the fun part would be catching the bad guys using the gadgets like those they use in the show and then after completing a mission that may take you from California to Timbuktu to Tokyo, you would get to go shopping!  Woohoo!    I hope SOE reads these boards.  I may not be a fan, but I could be if they really are going to start trying to cater to us females a bit more.   Yea! 

  Tnice

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/21/07
Posts: 563

6/12/07 9:14:03 AM#12

The word is that one of the best guys from Sigil, Nino, went to work on SOE's The Agency.  The Agency looks innovative, fun, and sexy.  In other words, it is the opposite of VG.  VG is the last of a dying breed of unfun, tedious, boring games.  Thank goodness SOE is on the right track.  They are a big name with a lot of resources.  Their overall success is good for Gamers.

 


http://www.gametrailers.com/gamepage.php?id=4932

  arctarus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/26/06
Posts: 2418

6/12/07 9:24:13 AM#13
Hmmm..... will SOE in a 2 to 3 years time even close down some games? Not very sure about diversified, but i believe they are going into another area of the gaming world, since watever they do they cant get that big slice of pie from WoW, heck! even WAR and AOC i think

RIP Orc Choppa

  Kalmarth

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/18/04
Posts: 402

6/12/07 9:41:17 AM#14

This is just sad, SoE is now making the stereo type of female gamers into puppy loving carebears, sure younger girls like thats but not as many as they are banking on, as kids go girls like to do what the boys do, if there are dragons they either want to ride them or slay them, to say

"NO NO NO we need more puppies and horses in there" Can you say My little pony, Most of us out grow them at about 6.

Frankly that cuts deep, SoE wants to boost its female gamer numbers then try putting out a game that is easy to pick up and put down, the EQ games you need to put in time just to get to the play areas.

WoW has made it eaiser to get to the action but not much.

As for everyone being tired of Orc/Elves, the only games I can think of that made it that weren't in that fantasy setting are CoH and Eve both good games.

I can only wish SoE luck as they move from the market to consoles, for me I think its a good thing that SoE bows out of the MMO games market and let the people that care about game not just about money make more of a mark.

Oh Good luck with that PS3 thing finally I might stop using mine as a doorstop and play on it if they ever get a good game out, but with the prospects of Puppies and horses I guess not.

 

(This is not ment as a flame just thinking out loud)

  squeaky1

Novice Member

Joined: 12/21/05
Posts: 170

6/12/07 9:43:39 AM#15

This is nothing new.  John Smedley has been talking about this business model, and the velvet rope approach,  for the last two years.

"So today, Sony Online intends to unveil its plan to retake leadership in online gaming by unveiling three new games in development. More broadly, the new games represent an attempt to broaden the company in four major ways: diversifying its business model, expanding the demographic profile of its customer base, moving into the console market in addition to making games for PCs and increasing its presence in Asia."

You don't broaden, diversify, and expand a customer base by alienating current customers.  I would say making Vanguard a success fits well within the four points shown.  They get a new game that appeals to a certain market without paying the upfront development costs.  that gives them a cash flow while paying development for the new games.

- How can you talk if you haven't got a brain?

- I don't know, but some people without brains do an awful lot of talking, don't they?

  Tenebrion

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/08/06
Posts: 170

6/12/07 9:47:57 AM#16
Sony has is ,without a doubt, the single worst "successful" developer of MMORPGs that has ever come to be. I've said it before and I'll say it again ; everything that SOE touches turns to shit. This shift in business model is nothing but a desperate attempt at another money grab, since their current idea for a cash cow seems to be running dry.


Content Writer for RTSGuru.com
And overall bitter old man.

  Slampig

Elite Member

Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 1605

Fanboi is not a word, it is just bad grammar.

6/12/07 9:54:23 AM#17
How is this going to be bad for Vanguard? Am I missing something?

That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  Zooomg

Novice Member

Joined: 6/06/07
Posts: 86

Vanguard: the game that truly sucked!

6/12/07 10:03:52 AM#18
Originally posted by squeaky1

This is nothing new.  John Smedley has been talking about this business model, and the velvet rope approach,  for the last two years.

"So today, Sony Online intends to unveil its plan to retake leadership in online gaming by unveiling three new games in development. More broadly, the new games represent an attempt to broaden the company in four major ways: diversifying its business model, expanding the demographic profile of its customer base, moving into the console market in addition to making games for PCs and increasing its presence in Asia."

You don't broaden, diversify, and expand a customer base by alienating current customers.  I would say making Vanguard a success fits well within the four points shown.  They get a new game that appeals to a certain market without paying the upfront development costs.  that gives them a cash flow while paying development for the new games.


So the reality is:

1.  Unless they plan to change Vanguard sub model into the Velvet Rope model (not a bad idea actually), Vanguard clearly is not the next shining jewel the $OE crown.

2.  Money made from Vanguard will be siphoned off to pay for new development.  Wow, that would sucked for Vanguard.  When push come to shove and the new game is late, devs will be poached from other games to push the new game.  I would hazard a guess that  the real reason why SOE bought Sigil is to 'buy' developers for their new titles.  Instead of hiring 50 new unproven developers, 'buy' the top 50 of an existing game that showed promise, keep them on that game for a little while until the new game is fleshed out in terms of project plan, man power requirements and etc and then move the cream of the crop to the new game.  Keep a skeleton crew on Vanguard.  Perhaps use it as a training ground for new devs.

3.  SOE has a history of alienating its customer base.  NGE anyone?  I hope they learned from their mistakes coz I have always liked Sony.  History do repeat itself unfortunately.

4.  The Sword and Sorcery genre is about to be invaded by at least 2 major AAA+ titles in the next 6-9 months i.e. AoC and WAR.  I reckon WoW probably have an expansion or two up its sleeves too.  Smart money says Vanguard is not where you should put your money on given its bad reputation and poor performance.

How exactly will Vanguard not be affected lol ....

  Kyleran

Elite Member

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 14598

A simple truth-"What people want and what is good for an mmo is not always the same thing"-mrw0lf

6/12/07 10:07:33 AM#19
I'm  not sure this will have much of an impact of VG, but it sure does mean that we will probably no longer see a steady stream of successful MMORPG's from this highly respected development house.   

(Yellow comic sans used to denote sarcasm)

I'm thinking the net-net on my gaming is.... zero.

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  Tnice

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/21/07
Posts: 563

6/12/07 10:37:26 AM#20
Originally posted by Slampig
How is this going to be bad for Vanguard? Am I missing something?


It is potentially bad for VG because SOE will put their best and brightest on the new projects.  VG will be left for the Planetside, Matrix Online rejects and those who are just out of school and learning how to make games.

With a crew like that VG will just be another 3rd rate MMO as it is now and will never break out of the mold as the VG fans hope it will.

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