Vanguard: Saga of Heroes

"The good things" about Vanguard is not, imo, crafting, and it certainly is not diplomacy...

"The good things" about this game are.... ehhmm... hmm... let me get back to this after SOE has done something..

Originally posted by andyjd
Ok, it's all to easy kicking a dog when its down, and after my journey from initial fan, to beta tester to buyer, to disillusionment, to explayer, I'm on of the first to pick holes in the game.

But, lets at least look at the good thing which the game has done, for itself and the industry (aside from the 'how-not-to-do-it'). I'm not a Vanboi, or a big fan of SOE, so hopefully we can keep this as balanced as possible.

1) Communication with the fanbase.
Although one of the problems with Snake oil-seller McQuaid, at least the majority of the dev staff were fairly open with the community, both in development and when the game was live. Things were explained, rather than just done, and there was at least the feeling of two-way communication. Maybe that was one of the problems as well as expectations were rasied too high...

2) Crafting
One of the good things from Vanguard was a crafting system which was more than just collecting and clicking to create. Although problems did come up with the 'work-order' system, and the massive grind, it was at least an attempt to create a system which competed for content and time with the adventuring side. Hopefully more MMORPGS will look at this and expand and deepen crafting systems whilst keeping them engaging and fun.

3) Non-combat content
The creation of the diplomacy sphere was one of the most innoventive aspects of the game. Although not fully developed and again becoming a grind, it was an attempt at creating content away from simply killing mobs and adventuring quests.

There are many other things which could be there, multiple types of mounts and ships (although not new), and im sure theres other things.

So among the rubbish of the game, which is the majority of it, there are specks of good things to take from the game.....

Crafting was a good thing in VG? I thought it was one of its weaknesses. The mechanics are too complex for its own good. I guess they were trying to achieve realistic feel to the crafting process but I thought it was obvious realism and games often don't mix. It's like food and water, requiring to drink and eat at regular intervals in a game adds nothing to gameplay its just a nuiscence.

I didn't find crafting hard, just really tedius IMO. You seemed to need to do so many little steps just to create one little part of the whole item you're trying to make. It's just click-click-click all day exactly the same way. And do writs all day to get anywhere. It's a sleep inducing process. I couldn't scrounge up any fun from it as much as I tried and ending up dumping my little tailoring career. Crafting could have been much more fun if we could individualize the items we make, everyone item was essentially a vanilla copy of everyone elses and that took the excitement away, for me at least.

Diplomacy was a really interesting idea and innovative I agree, but it was so badly executed. I hope it gets revamped and made more engaging.

I feel like the exploration factor and the dungeons are both positives.  Although I am only lv31 I have seen a number of cool places (mostly starting after 20's or so) and seen some places in the distance I cant wait to see.

Also I think the combat is quite engaging and is very fun atleast on the few classes I have really played (although it is boring solo as my Warrior.. but I have not played a game yet (DAOC, EQ, EQII, WoW, ect.) that made a fun soloing warrior class).  But in groups the combat shines and can be a great time and the solo experience is on par with other mmo's for tanks, making it workable even if not fun, and atleast there are interesting areas to explore to increase the fun with it!

Originally posted by Tutu2

Originally posted by andyjd
Ok, it's all to easy kicking a dog when its down, and after my journey from initial fan, to beta tester to buyer, to disillusionment, to explayer, I'm on of the first to pick holes in the game.

But, lets at least look at the good thing which the game has done, for itself and the industry (aside from the 'how-not-to-do-it'). I'm not a Vanboi, or a big fan of SOE, so hopefully we can keep this as balanced as possible.

1) Communication with the fanbase.
Although one of the problems with Snake oil-seller McQuaid, at least the majority of the dev staff were fairly open with the community, both in development and when the game was live. Things were explained, rather than just done, and there was at least the feeling of two-way communication. Maybe that was one of the problems as well as expectations were rasied too high...

2) Crafting
One of the good things from Vanguard was a crafting system which was more than just collecting and clicking to create. Although problems did come up with the 'work-order' system, and the massive grind, it was at least an attempt to create a system which competed for content and time with the adventuring side. Hopefully more MMORPGS will look at this and expand and deepen crafting systems whilst keeping them engaging and fun.

3) Non-combat content
The creation of the diplomacy sphere was one of the most innoventive aspects of the game. Although not fully developed and again becoming a grind, it was an attempt at creating content away from simply killing mobs and adventuring quests.

There are many other things which could be there, multiple types of mounts and ships (although not new), and im sure theres other things.

So among the rubbish of the game, which is the majority of it, there are specks of good things to take from the game.....

Crafting was a good thing in VG? I thought it was one of its weaknesses. The mechanics are too complex for its own good. I guess they were trying to achieve realistic feel to the crafting process but I thought it was obvious realism and games often don't mix. It's like food and water, requiring to drink and eat at regular intervals in a game adds nothing to gameplay its just a nuiscence.

I didn't find crafting hard, just really tedius IMO. You seemed to need to do so many little steps just to create one little part of the whole item you're trying to make. It's just click-click-click all day exactly the same way. And do writs all day to get anywhere. It's a sleep inducing process. I couldn't scrounge up any fun from it as much as I tried and ending up dumping my little tailoring career. Crafting could have been much more fun if we could individualize the items we make, everyone item was essentially a vanilla copy of everyone elses and that took the excitement away, for me at least.

Diplomacy was a really interesting idea and innovative I agree, but it was so badly executed. I hope it gets revamped and made more engaging.

In every MMO all crafting systems are click click click, Vanguard just had a different concept...I loved crafting in vanguard, hell i preferred to craft over adventuring because you made tons of money ( 20gold @ lvl 18 smith - first month of release) the only reason I go out adventuring was to be able to use the weapons i crafted...

the worse crafting system IMO is everquest...you get a bag search for the recipe and it auto selects the ingredients for you and you jsut click click click...and once you get to the point at about 230-300 skill it can take as much as 100+ clicks to gain 1 skill point where as in vanguard you are gaining experience for work orders....

Originally posted by Tutu2

Crafting was a good thing in VG? I thought it was one of its weaknesses. The mechanics are too complex for its own good. I guess they were trying to achieve realistic feel to the crafting process but I thought it was obvious realism and games often don't mix. It's like food and water, requiring to drink and eat at regular intervals in a game adds nothing to gameplay its just a nuiscence.

I didn't find crafting hard, just really tedius IMO. You seemed to need to do so many little steps just to create one little part of the whole item you're trying to make. It's just click-click-click all day exactly the same way. And do writs all day to get anywhere. It's a sleep inducing process. I couldn't scrounge up any fun from it as much as I tried and ending up dumping my little tailoring career. Crafting could have been much more fun if we could individualize the items we make, everyone item was essentially a vanilla copy of everyone elses and that took the excitement away, for me at least.

Diplomacy was a really interesting idea and innovative I agree, but it was so badly executed. I hope it gets revamped and made more engaging.