Developers Corner

In recent developement are two games I would like to compare, as well as the comments generally heard about them... Lineage II and City of Heros.  The summary of L2 comments is "Sure it sucks now, but after 500+ hours played there will be a great endgame.  CoH has virtually the opposite... "It's great fun from second that you enter the game, but there really is no end game to it."

My first MMORPG was jumpgate.  I felt like there was something for everyone to do, beginner, intermediate and advanced players worked together.  There were many choices for what you wanted the end game to be.

Then came DAoC.  This was the first game primarily devoted to it's endgame.  The lower levels haven't seen any attention in years... and were effectively removed when /level was introduced.  It's no longer "fun" to level up... it's a chore that must be endured so you can participate in the end game.

I've tried others, but find the "pay dues so you can play with the big boys" doesn't work for me anymore.  I'd be perfectly happy if there was something I could contribute to the over all game at all stages of my developement.

So... my question is... is having an End Game to a MMORPG a good idea? 

-Sig-
Don't try to teach a pig to sing,
It rarely works and only serves to annoy the pig.

End game need to be builded on solid strong foundations.

The nicest house(end game) without proper foundations is going to crumble.

Foundation that are harsh and unfinished are not meant to be live in them, so you need to finish the foundations and make it nice to be there, someone leaving the foundations should be doing it because the house above is amazing, not because an army of giant rats scared him\her.

The non-End Game is like a big introduction to the end game(and some folks will never leave the intro), if it is not pleasant or suck, it kinda spoiled whatever the end game is.

- "Coercing? No no, I assure you, they are willing to bring my bags and pay public transportation just to help me, it is true!''

Endgame like in lineage 2 is a nghtmare for me... I dont want to do same boring things for days, weeks, even monts to enter "endgame"; before i will be able to enter this endgame i would be crazy from this mindless slashing

There should be something to do in all levels, ofcorse high level content should be much diffrent than low level content but not more fun or more rewarding... i simply pass that kind of games, i dont want to pay for game and than have a full time job (for which I pay) to simply have fun in the end... If something isnt fun why pay for it?

I don't believe there should be an "end-game" persay in mmoprg. For an rpg or even morpg, an "end-game" is fine, but a mmorpg is supposed to be about the openess of the play.

Now, having said that, I do not disaggree that there should be goals and quest. There is satisfaction and pride, as well as a whole lot of fun, in achieving a goal and completing a quest. That's why it feel so darn good when you finished Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, or just add any rpg title here. The same can be said for an mmorpg. In EQ, now I haven't played EQ in a long time so if I'm wrong feel free to correct, completing a quest to get an item, well, you just felt good getting it. That and finally reaching lvl 65, and you and your guild have done everything possible until the next expansion pack comes out.  In DarkSpace, finally capturing a rival factions home star system or totally annhilating them from the face of the metaverse is a power trip. Playing countless hours to achieve the rank of Grand Admiral, but what if it ended there?

If there was an "end-game", and you were finished. What then? I like to spend time with my on-line friends and explore as well, but I need fulfillment, too. I like the idea of having an mmorpg  having quest and goals for its players and guilds, and then adding more content with updates and expansions.

The one thing about an "end-game is that when you complete the game, you can start over as another character in another class and/or race and do it all over again. Getting to enjoy the game by playing it differently. Once done, you could then try another mmorpg, but to me, that would be the only positive.

"The probability of someone watching you is porportional to the stupidity of your action." Hartley's 1st Law

End game is good I think.

But the DAoC exemple is exactly what End Game must not be.  End Game must be the same activity you did previously, just End Game instead of easier starting up.

In DAoC(I dont flame DAoC here), you ask players that love to play the RvsR aspect of the game to be absolutely play a group or solo carebear game for a LONG time, I failed to see the link that justify that.  Players that love to RvsR need to play that without playing another game before.  Player that love to play the solo\group aspect pre-RvsR in DAoC should not be stuck in a End Game that they never did play.

End Game is not supposed to be a new Game.  DAoC End Game is like putting Ice Cream on a steak!

- "Coercing? No no, I assure you, they are willing to bring my bags and pay public transportation just to help me, it is true!''

I would be kind of interested to see an MMPORG which did have a "game over" point, but I can see why no sane businessman would want to make an MMPORG with a tightly limited lifespan - they might never actually recoup the development costs, never mind turn a profit. Most of my ideas on that front are a kind of "Public versus the developers" concept, where the game developers set the stage and then the players have to defeat them in the setting they've created.
The two examples I have at the top of my head would be:

One where the developers play the role of some sort of ruling regime and it's the task of the players to overthrow them, the time limit would come from something bad that would happen if the developers remain in power, like the players are a slave race destined for mass sacrifice. Or maybe an it could be based around the OddWorld setting and you're destined for mass production of burgers.

The other would be where the players are given a world/nation/continent and told of a (rough) set time when there is just going to be one uber-mega-apocolyptic invasion of DEATH controlled by the developers and the players have the intervening time to prepare defenses whilst protecting against spies, sabotage and probing attacks.

In both of the above cases I'm thinking of a timescale of one year, maybe two. Both have the potential to really encourage the whole co-operative thing. Maybe there'd be some scope to even turn traitor but I think I'd want it to be very limited.

Also just writing this has given me another idea (not neccessarily limited timescale though): A Day After Tommorrow type MMPORG. Yo