What down time.? you run out of mana your full and ready to go within 4 minutes and thats soloing.
please if your gonna make comments about something you dont like in eq elaborate so people know what your talking about.. the longest downtime you have in Eq these days is when every  goes to take a lunch break

whats being rated is an MMORPG not a single  player or FPS
you can sign on and jump into a group or go work on trdeskills or just go farm mobs for tradeskills parts or catch up some aa  soloing when groups arent appealing or available.

Overall EQ is definately a 9  a 7 a  worst.. 

4 minutes huh, wow .....just because you have been brainwashed does not mean their are not far better options out there.  I was kind, giving it a 5.

I will be honest, I just never liked the game, Verant did not help.  Sony has fixed a lot of Verant's mistakes, but if you can't admit it is  outmoded and creaking in it's old age, you are being dishonest with everyone.

Out moded? the ooc regen change provided a great balance  lowering downtime without trivializing game play

group play rewards players for converserving their energy yet gives them the power to go full blast when they need to some may not like that  but its part of th challenge of game content  and overall is a plus not a negative.
in the raid game downtime used to be the the cause of the majority of now time this  is now more refelcted in the organization of the raid instead of game mechanics. except in the course of the wipe.. but if you fail at something it should take a moment before your character is full blast.  the content itself has reduced zerging signifficantly whle stil allowing  players to reenter the fight smoothly when a few drop here and there during the cours e of  a long fight raidwise and that is a delicate balance.

tradeskills have been revamped to be more efficient and practical  significantly reducing combine times by allowing the character to remember recipes and hitting the combine button without swapping around alot of items

group wise.. shrouds have been introduced  alllowing you to play a different class archetype to fil in base group needs when you are short a group function  providing more group functionality. ( you can also shroud down levels to play with lower level characters . granted these shrouds are underpowered for difficult group content  as they should be.

potions were revamped to increase player solobility  and made readily available for the players lessening dependance on buffs while till making buffs desirable as opposed to  the diablo approach of potions which pretty much  gives characters no incentives to group with other players via trivializing content

content itself has been revamped. mob immunities from players availities this has gone a long way into been trending mkore towards mob mittigation as opposed to mob immunities.  this has gone along way to diversifying content in a game which already has the most.

I disagree with the sentiment that if EQ was released today  it would be to little fanfare. with the majority of the players ate lower levels and the crrent degin and content element used in the game in addition to the live content that is introduce periodically..  (scripted armies travelling zone to zone is certainly not boring)

Oh come on, it is a dead end game, only people playing are those that can't stand to start over and try something new.

If it were released today as is, it would be just another small niche game.  If you can't grasp the fact that people don't want to play difficult MMO's, then you cannot face reality.  The main reason people play game is to have fun.  Wow for example is fun due to it's simplicity.  Low death penalty, hand holding on quests, etc.  I am no Wow fan, but recognize why it is popular.   Beyond it's huge content EQ offers nothing that is easy.  Hence very small niche market.

Originally posted by terrorantula

EQ which is years old and looks like crap graphics gets a 8 but World of Warcraft which looks 100 times better visually and artistically gets a 5 :S mmorpg.com reviews make no sense tbh.

But, whoops, newer EQ expansions with options on are graphically superior to WoW, I guess people like to ignore that little fact.

Yes, EQ is a bit more hardcore than most other MMOs, but it still has more content than any of them.

EQ is not outmoded, and is still a cutting edge MMO due to the fact that expansions keep coming out with new features/content.

You just don't get it.  The only people that want a hard core MMO is the avid pvpers, they don't mind, but oh, EQ is primarily a pve game.

Where is your fan base coming from?  Again a small niche market game. 

Who in the world cares about graphics that much?  It is all about gameplay and that is exactly what EQ does not have when compared to it's competition. 

If EQ is your type of game, more power to you.  You should play the game that gives you what you want from a game.   All I am saying is that in this market place EQ does not fit the mold of what most people are looking for.  Giving it a high rating when it clearly does fit in with what most players are looking for is just silly. 

Maybe MMORPG.COM needs to change their 8 categories, because no where do I see a playability category, which really is tops on most peoples list.   I guess that falls in the fun category and she gives it a 9 for fun.  How in the world can you give a hard core game like this a 9 for fun unless you are a masichist?

 

Originally posted by Ciredric

You just don't get it.  The only people that want a hard core MMO is the avid pvpers, they don't mind, but oh, EQ is primarily a pve game.

Where is your fan base coming from?  Again a small niche market game. 

Who in the world cares about graphics that much?  It is all about gameplay and that is exactly what EQ does not have when compared to it's competition. 

If EQ is your type of game, more power to you.  You should play the game that gives you what you want from a game.   All I am saying is that in this market place EQ does not fit the mold of what most people are looking for.  Giving it a high rating when it clearly does fit in with what most players are looking for is just silly. 

Maybe MMORPG.COM needs to change their 8 categories, because no where do I see a playability category, which really is tops on most peoples list.   I guess that falls in the fun category and she gives it a 9 for fun.  How in the world can you give a hard core game like this a 9 for fun unless you are a masichist?

 

By your use of the word "masochist" you seem to be using a different definition of "hardcore" than I am. EQ is not a very hard game overall, there are incredible challenges, and there are trivial tasks, so the difficulty is what you make of it. What makes EQ a hardcore game is the fact that you cannot progress in the game without being willing to make a time investment. EQ is not for the person with five minutes a day to play, you just won't get anywhere. And yes, I'll readily agree that the market share goes to WoW because you can beat WoW much more easily, it has what people want. But frankly I *do* have the playtime to go all out for the best thing on the market.

In short, EQ is hardcore in the sense that it requires some measure of playtime, not in the sense that the game itself is tough.

Funnest game for me was pre tram Ultima Online.

cice you dont seem to comprehend that Eq was the mmoorpg market. not just a niche. wow had a built in market it was a franchise named something else probably would be half the size.. Wow cam with a name everquest made its own name.. wow is the american version of lineage . a chaleenging PVE canbe succesful and Eq had proved that for 8 years running . woW is a perfect training ground though . smart players who grow bored with wow would try EQ

Originally posted by Ciredric

Oh come on, it is a dead end game, only people playing are those that can't stand to start over and try something new.

If it were released today as is, it would be just another small niche game.  If you can't grasp the fact that people don't want to play difficult MMO's, then you cannot face reality.  The main reason people play game is to have fun.  Wow for example is fun due to it's simplicity.  Low death penalty, hand holding on quests, etc.  I am no Wow fan, but recognize why it is popular.   Beyond it's huge content EQ offers nothing that is easy.  Hence very small niche market.

 

Everquest isn't really difficult either imo. The difficulty now is having people on who play.

EQ IS TOTALLY NOT newbee friendly anymore.

The reviewer didn't make that clear at all.

Another thing, the newbees in the newbee forum ofter get told EQ is alive and kicking for them and it's packed with newbees etc....Those ppl lying on forums so newbees buy the game just to have more ppl playing disgust me rofl.

depends on what you consider packed.. are there gonna be 12-18 players  in the tutorial at any given time to group with... most likely... 20-40 most likely not.  when you get into the twenty are there gonna be more than 5 or 6 your level on .... no but there will be 10-20 in your level range . as you get higher level you will meet more people and  maybe even strike upon your own fellowship  to experience the game with.  these numbers do fluctuate and there is no better time to  get into EQ than after the release of  the anniversery  edition which brings everyone up to date with acccess to 8 years of content.

everquest has made long strides to making everquest newbie friendly with potions. shrouds, monster missions, the tutorial . poK armor newbie quest. and cresecent reach.. a centralized zone for new players to get familiar with the game with lower end quest  a city. and  2 farming grounds as well as an undead area to where you can get into your twenties without leaving the city.  a massive bazaar with gear available from other players to bepurchased and used to make old world  pre 50 content  even more accessible.

Newbies have many options they can grind their way into their fifties in just a few zones  or they can take their time and explore the 50 plus zones with content they can do on their own or with a small group.

The industry has ignored everquest the last few years  but mainly because of EQ2's release. Many of the industry experts thoughteverquest would stagnate and die  with no development so what would be the  point to spend much time or making resources availble to cove r it ... this was sony's  mistake in the naming of eq 2. because EQ is still improving it still is being developed and fresh content is regularly implemented.  Many of the features in everquest now were thought impossible during the development due to coding limitations . this code was rewritten. the game engine was replaced and all was implemented with while sustaining the game with very little downtime.

I server population is in concern there is 26 servers avaialble to choose from and  you can have t least 6 players for each server. I would recommend singing on several servers during what would be your regular playing time and seeing which one best suits you

Originally posted by tornicade
What down time.? you run out of mana your full and ready to go within 4 minutes and thats soloing.

4 minutes of downtime between each fight is horrible and long.  Granted, it is nothing as it used to be, the 15 minutes meditating with the impossibility to watch the world around while you meditate was a lot longer.

 

Still, 4 minutes of doing nothing and waiting is horrible.  In a modern game, that downtime is 30 seconds to 1 minute at worst, and killing a mob take 2-30 seconds...not 5 minutes of boring fighting.

 

I play pre-Kunark.  And there was a logic and a mentality behind this that could have been somewhat nice, but the 15 minutes downtime was horrible.  4 minutes is still horrible.  I did it back then, because I didn't have a better MMO option.  In the MMO I play, between 30 seconds to 1 minutes, not even sitting, I am full heatlh/stamina and ready to destroy scores of minions.

who said each fight? it takes that long to go from zero power to full power.  If you burn all your resources on one fight then you should consider tackling on more appropiate content.  i have seen groups go quite few hours with  little to no down time.

in the old days eq  downtime was a chance to catch a breather. Now unless you are taking on content more challenging than what you should be or pushing your limits people have to go afk   to get groups to slow down and even then groups will keep going til the player returns. 

anything more would pretty much triviallize the game.. I prefer having abilities i can overues or underuse at my discretion as opposed to a system that needs to limit the abilities in order to pace the game.

allowing the players the freedom to manage and moderate their abilities is a plus for eq not a negative

eq downtime is another  misperception formed from another era that does not apply to today's game

Originally posted by Anofalye

Originally posted by tornicade
What down time.? you run out of mana your full and ready to go within 4 minutes and thats soloing.

4 minutes of downtime between each fight is horrible and long.  Granted, it is nothing as it used to be, the 15 minutes meditating with the impossibility to watch the world around while you meditate was a lot longer.

 

Still, 4 minutes of doing nothing and waiting is horrible.  In a modern game, that downtime is 30 seconds to 1 minute at worst, and killing a mob take 2-30 seconds...not 5 minutes of boring fighting.

 

I play pre-Kunark.  And there was a logic and a mentality behind this that could have been somewhat nice, but the 15 minutes downtime was horrible.  4 minutes is still horrible.  I did it back then, because I didn't have a better MMO option.  In the MMO I play, between 30 seconds to 1 minutes, not even sitting, I am full heatlh/stamina and ready to destroy scores of minions.

As the poster above said, you're incredibly silly if you're having downtime after each mob. Most groups still go for quite a while before having a break, and those usually only come if someone has to use the bathroom or something. But, yes, EQ is an MMOG, it is not Diablo. You go through many challenging fights, take a break, and do it again, you do not click swarms of mobs for hours.

First of all i went back to my roots right before anniversary pack came out and it has been great. There are people who are new to the game or starting over. Popping in to Crescent Reach for the first time will make you blink and check to see if you are truely logged in to Everquest. Graphics are Fantastic.  I started back on Drinal server and it's true that newbie zones other than CR are pretty much ghost towns but with the option to start in CR you can find a low level group. When anniversary pack came out I switched to Bristalbane to join a great guild for restarts and true newbs. Check them out at http://kickingsnakes.freeforums.org  (selfless plug ) And no problems finding groups. It's not like in the heyday's where you could stand in Gfay and shout LFG and get bombarded by tells, but i'm not soloing my armor quests either. A lot of people are coming back to EQ because they are frustrated with their current MMORG. Just look at some of the forums around, so many people are frustrated with the quick and easy atmosphere of WoW or the game play of EQ2. Leveling has been made easier. Quests are better. Stat Armor drops like crazy. I am not delusional in thinking that EQ's player number will suddenly start sky-rocketting. Theres just not enough press for that, but i do think that it will continue to be a great game for years to come. Sure there are a hundred other games out there but look at how many are generic copies of EQ and it's predecessors.  if you liked it in the past i'd recommend trying it again. if you never tried it, nows the time with the anniversary pack still available for 20 bucks. If you think it's the same game it was four years ago your wrong. With the addition of augments, spirit shrouds, and tons of other stuff listed in the review the game play has advanced right along with the expanding borders of Norrath.

In short don't diss it till you tried it (or tried it again, whatever the case may be. )

All bow down to the god of MMORPG's imo.

Everquest has been the leader of MMORPG's for gameplay really ever since it was first released in 1999.

Just because games such as WOW have a enormous gamefan base it does'nt actually mean anything other than there's FAR less ppl with the time to play games such as Everquest than there is to play a simple game such as WOW.

In WOW you can log on for 30 mins and do something that's the beauty of the game.But if you compare EQ to WOW then really you can only of played 1 of these games, Everquest is significantly deeper and far far harder to master as well as complete.There's ppl even after 5-6 years who STILL have'nt maxed out there character's due to an unbelievable AA system.

WOW is just like diablo2 that to had a tona ppl all playing it and repeating the same old nonsense day on day out because it was simple it didn't require any brains and you could come home from work (school for ppl that play WOW!) and mess about for 30 minutes.

Remember WOW has to stand the test of time and it won't, in  2 year's time or so ppl would of moved on as they will get bored with the monotous play whereas this game will be still be going as it is a MMORPG in EVERY sense of the word.

Ppl that ridicule this game truly are utterly moronic and truly do NOT really know what a MMORPG is or is meant to be like.

I ditched WOW after just 4 month's as i came from Everquest 1 and trust me if you make comparisions to eq1  as you play WOW, it's near impossible to continue playing WOW.It is INFERIOR in EVERY single department and yes i DO include graphically, WOW is cartoony and does'nt appeal to some1 who is 31.Everquest looks far more realistic (except the old world zones which look crap).

WOW is for children and ppl who like PVP'ing, EQ is for mature gamer's who like a challenge and a decent community with likeminded mature player's.And let's face if you made a game which market of ppl would you prefer to have?kids or mature ppl?Ask yourself WHY has Everquest been going for 9 years and STILL releasing expansion's after 9 years?

Please don't insult this game by even mentioning WOW to it, WOW is'nt worthy to even lace the boots of this classic game and i think deep down WOW player's know it hence why they make dig's at a game they simply CANNOT .a 2 year old MMORPG cannot even begin to compare to a 9 year old game.There are reason's game's last this long and it's summed up in 1 - CLASS.

The fanbase of ppl that play WOW are fickle and will pick up the next good MMORPG that comes out with 'fancy' graphics whereas the ppl playing EQ will not and will only leave IF something decent is released to compare.Ppl leave EQ all the time but only return 5-6 month's later hence why it's sub base fluctuate's so much and why it can continue to be devoloped for.

 

So much comments on the reviewer and the choice of numbers. Reviews are hard to do. Wether it be games, books, paintings, automobiles, movies,  ...ect.  You can not review something without having an opinion and opinions vary.  If not then there would be a computer program to do it for us. I feel the bigger question to ask is,  is there a set standard formula that all reviewers have to use to set  thier basis?  If all reviewers just review based on thier own personal feelings without a strict guideline then it is easy to confuse and confound us the users of the site.  Yet even with this a review will not always agree to everyone because it isafter all just the writers opinion.

As an example of my thinking. Siskle and Ebert (sp?) the Two thumbs up guys were a famous team of movie critics. yet thier tastes were generally pretty opposite to my tastes in films. So if I saw a two thumbs down, well. it just peaked my interest. Bashing them for thier tastes served no purpose as it was Thier taste.  

 

Slightly off topic.

Originally posted by Ciredric

Oh come on, it is a dead end game, only people playing are those that can't stand to start over and try something new.

If it were released today as is, it would be just another small niche game.  If you can't grasp the fact that people don't want to play difficult MMO's, then you cannot face reality.  The main reason people play game is to have fun.  Wow for example is fun due to it's simplicity.  Low death penalty, hand holding on quests, etc.  I am no Wow fan, but recognize why it is popular.   Beyond it's huge content EQ offers nothing that is easy.  Hence very small niche market.

I got a headache from reading all the posts so excuse me if I turn a phrase or two wrong.  But I had to back up to this post and comment on it.  I highlighted the pertinent detail I wanted and left the sarcasm out.  This seems to be oh so true as of late.  I am Old School  and I prefer a challenge so when playing games like WOW and LOTRO I find them very simplistic. Requiring very little actual brain process.  In the time span of 1 - 1.5 hours I can usually easlily raise a character to level 10 or more. Yet I hear others (Can I say kids since I am , after all, a dinosaur? )  complain on how hard it is to get ahead. It has gotten so bad that at times i get sarcastic myself and after being whimed at  and begged to death I sometimes reply " Would you like me to play the game for you too???"

since when was EQ a hard game? The only hard part about it was the amount of time things took in the game. You would sit at a camp (A CAMP) for hours grinding away at monsters while you leveled. Bosses werent exactly anything spectacular either.

I admit, i liked the "flare," of things in EQ, but it was far from anything I would consider "hard."

As someone who has played EQ, EQ2, and WOW,  and even reached high levels on all except EQ2, I can share some experiences.

Carolyn was correct in her review that EQ has, in my opinion, the most overall content ( not counting the PVP element in WOW). People can play for years and still not get all of the AAs and top stuff.  She,however, wrongly discounts the severe problems in EQ that games like EQ2 and to a much greater extent, WOW, doesn't have.

 

First, the vast majority of players hate a severe death penalty. This puts people back significantly in time. Sony just hasn't gotten the message from watching WOW explode. Yes, having some penalty is desireable. However, having a need to be  rezed by a cleric , as in EQ, or suffer severe exp penalty is not what most people want. WOW did this well by resulting in a durability loss on equipment that needs to be repaired for money.  In fact, if players are willing to wait 10 minutes, they don't even need to get their corpse. They can use soul rezzers found at all cemetaries where people find themselves after death. The penalty is 10 min of rez sickness and a more severe durability penalty. This is liveable

Second problem that EQ suffers from,which could result in their demise, is the combination that EQ really is a group necessary game. It is MUCH harder to solo in EQ than in other games. This is especially true for most quests. This becomes a disaster in the making when we consider that there aren't a lot of lower level folks, and those that are there, are spread out too thinly in many zones. Thus, geting a group at lower to medium levels is situational at best and down right hard.

This problem is accentuated by EQ being very class dependant. If you can't group, low to mid level players are basically very shafted.

This isn't true of WOW,which is VERY solo friendly. Grouping is encourage with better exp and needed for dungeons. At least WOW uses a carrot,but EQ uses more of a stick approach. Sony hasn't gotten this message yet.

 

Third problem that Carolyn doens't really discuss is time sinks. EQ has improved with teleporters. However, much of the game involves running between zones, geting a rez, running to accomplish quests and meditating for fast mana regen. WOW has plenty of transportation devices to get almost anywhere.  In addition, mana regens faster after combat without needing to sit around all day.

Forth, WOW has among the fastest leveling around, This really incentivizes many folks to push on and stay. EQ takes what seems to be forever to level. I am basing this on my years of playing,which were from 2001-2002. Maybe this has changed.

Finally, Carolyn notes that there is a lot more content in EQ with many more zones, bigger zones, more AA points and levels,which is quite true. However, she ignores the fact that WOW is really two different games in one. the first is the leveling treadmill to the top. However, one the player achieves the top level, the game changes. Players participate in PVP for a lot of numerous rewards. This is a wholely different game.

 

Yes, I really liked EQ. and Yes, I really hated the problems that were solved by WOW. maybe SONY will get a clue by watching what has happend to WOW and what has happened to EQ.