Originally posted by Shayde

Originally posted by Nikoz78

Originally posted by -Thraxor Oh and you're right, SWG is a no brainer, it was built by and for folks suffering from that condition.

So... your saying Raph Koster is an "idiot?"

Blasphemy.

The game now is nothing like the one Raph created. Was a big part of why he left.

And calling it a sandbox, as you did earlier, is the ultimate blasphemy. There's no sandbox anymore.

Sandbox A:  Actually more like a group of sandboxes attached together almost overflowing with sand containing lots of toys.  Person playing in A  can move from one part of the box to another anytime the person wishes.  The person is allowed to be creative with the toys using them together or taking them apart and putting the parts together to create another type of toy.  A few guidelines exist as to how the person can use the toy, play  in the sand, and how much of the toys and sand the person is allowed to play  with.  The person can choose to play alone but can also play with others.  There are plenty of people playing in the sand so finding others to play with is easy.

Sandbox B.  Sandbox B has some sand.  There are a few toys but a person is only allowed to play with one toy at a time and has very  specific instructions on how one is to play with the toy.  If the person wants a different toy, the person must trade in current toy in order to get the new one.  The person must wear a sign while playing in the sandbox  saying the experience level the person has in playing with sand.  The sandbox is laid out in experience zones determining a pattern for moving about the sandbox.  The person can play alone or with others.  There is very little reason to play with others, there are not many others around (although one is given visors making it difficult to see the entire sandbox at one time and one is told that there are plenty of players, they are just in other parts of the sandbox), and, due to the leveling system, one is encouraged to play mainly with those of similar or slightly higher playing level.

If one considers B to be a true sandbox, perhaps even preferring it to A, then I guess SWG is still alive and well in the world of Sandboxes.  Me personally, I liked Sandbox A and I am looking for another A to play in.

Originally posted by Shayde
Before it was a sandbox.

Now it is a catbox.  Needs changing too.

Originally posted by Nikoz78

Originally posted by Dvol

So why would you need server merges on a heavy server?? Um if bloodfin is heavy then it wouldnt get merged,hence the term heavy!!

Here is the link to prove the Heavy Load on Bloodfin.

1st heavy server since NGE?

   www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/119641

 Um pretty sad if you ask me look at all those lights and a few mediums and one heavy...LOL... Time will tell all and so far time says SWG is in trouble..When devs make it a point to reasure its paying public everythings fine when they leave you know its really bad..The game should stand on its own without anyone needing to defend it..It wouldnt need the 10 of you that post overly positive things making post over and over talking about how good it is..

 Anyone can log into SWG and see for themselves how populated/unpopulated it is...Ive allways been a supporter of telling poeple to go test it out..9 times outa 10 the responses are the same..Its a bad FPSWOWEQ clone that is no longer unique and very empty..Now its just like every other mmo out there except it has no polish and no Devs that can fix anything and empty servers..Thing is ive accepted the fact the game is dying you havent, im ok with it seems your not..

Originally posted by Kylrathin
Which components of his design are intact?  Combat?  Gone.  Character development?  Destroyed.  Interdependency?  Greatly diminished.  The worlds themselves still exist, along with player cities (such as they are), but the design is ruined.

Player cities, such as they are, are basically dead...CU with its leveling killed a chunk of them with NGE killing even more.  There was a time I could have moved into any player city in the galaxy and maxed out my toon without going any further away from it than the furthest lair I chose from the mission terminal (not saying I ever leveled a toon that way but it was possible).  CU came along and player cities had to be a certain distance from server cities to get max level missions.  No longer could I hang out at my home town located between ME and AH.  I had to travel to another city if I wanted the highest level missions.  Then NGE came along (by this time the home town had relocated to another planet) and cities on certain planets could no longer get maxed level missions, not only that but missions were no longer a good way to get xp which meant that player cities that were once filled with activity of guild members coming and going, stopping by the cantina to heal and buff, became ghost towns.  At one time, one could almost guarantee people would be in the cantina of the city my guild had...last time I was in game, it was amazing to see a dot on the screen showing that someone else was in town and even more amazing if the dot represented someone ATK.

As for what else you said /agree.

Seen the video before the game describing the vision for the game? Someone posted the link on SWG's forums post-NGE.  It was sad to watch because I'm sitting there thinking "WOW! can't wait to play that game! Sounds like fun! oops....can't....it no longer exist "

Originally posted by Nikoz78
The guy said that the folks who "created" it (or whatever) were brainless. That was a comment directed at Koster (someone that guy obviously did not know about). But a lot of people hate Raph and his ideas so maybe he did.

Did not say it was the same exact game Raph created - far from it. But his design (if not his vision)  is still very much intact

Originally posted by Shayde

Originally posted by Nikoz78
The guy said that the folks who "created" it (or whatever) were brainless. That was a comment directed at Koster (someone that guy obviously did not know about). But a lot of people hate Raph and his ideas so maybe he did.

Did not say it was the same exact game Raph created - far from it. But his design (if not his vision)  is still very much intact

Koster's vision had...

1. 32 professions.Removed
2. Profession based system with no levels.Removed
3. Tools for immersive player created content.Removed
4. Player interdependacyRemoved
5. Actual playersRemoved replaced with holobands

Show me where they still exist.

Raph's game is dead and gone. What is left doesn't even resemble it.

Originally posted by Nikoz78
The guy said that the folks who "created" it (or whatever) were brainless. That was a comment directed at Koster (someone that guy obviously did not know about). But a lot of people hate Raph and his ideas so maybe he did.

Did not say it was the same exact game Raph created - far from it. But his design (if not his vision)  is still very much intact

Originally posted by Dradiin
I have to admit after reading this entire post and all the replies to it i have found myself intrigued by how the game is running now.

Course i must admit i have strong reservations about resubbing mainly because i am not a fan of SOE and how they handled the changes they forced on all of its players. But i do have to admit i am semi interested in seeing whats new and what is being added soon. After the dismal release of Vanguard and the boring same as all the rest gameplay in LOTRO i am at a loss as for what MMO will interest me till AOC/WAR/DF get released.

Anyhow this is not a statement for or against the NGE i freely admit that i think it is flawed and a horrible representation of that SWG was and should or even could have been, but i am still curious, and i am still interested in the central games core.

I dunno i guess i will get flamed as this will be seen as a pro-NGE post but its not just me saying that i am semi interested in how it is right now, maybe if the rest took a serious look at the game it might not be as dismal as we all think it is. Course more then likely i will get in game mess around for an hour and just plain hate it. Never can tell till you make the attempt.

Originally posted by Shayde

Koster's vision had...

1. 32 professions.
* Two new professions coming June 5th. As time goes on more will be added.
2. Profession based system with no levels.
* So what. I agree it was better, but it's not game breaking to me.  There is a skill tree with 45 points to customize your character. True D&D game play is level based, not skill based, anyway.
3. Tools for immersive player created content
* Empty statement. Prove it's gone. Oh wait, you can't! That's because it's still there.
4. Player interdependacy
* Another empty statement. There is a lot of interdependency in the game.
5. Actual players
* Empty statement. Bloodfin hit Heavy Load often. See above pic as evidence (something you don't bother to provide).

Show me where they still exist.
Log in and see for your self. Roll a new character and actually play the game.

Raph's game is dead and gone. What is left doesn't even resemble it.
Raph's original "vision" may be missing but it was a HUGE failure either way. He left SWG a LONG, LONG time before the revamps... so yeah.  To say the game he created is "gone" is very untrue.

Combat is mostly the same, you can pick 2 styles to fight with now - FPS (witch is pretty fun) or classic style.

Hated buff lines so thats great they are gone (they were unique but pretty bizarre),  having to get in a long line every three hours was a drag.

Camera view - 2 styles to choose from.

Legacy Quests are  wonderful for new players.

Jedi - never wanted them in game so was never happy about it. But learned long before "NGE" to live with it.

Opinion: CU-3 is likely not too far away.

Plus, with them not just "re-adding" old content - but actually improving upon it before putting it back in game - this is a worthy Star Wars MMO again. It can only go UP from here on out.

Feel free to tell me you hate SOE and this game post-NGE. But don't tell me it's not a thousand times better than it was even two months ago.

You are way off by claiming SWG today is not still a sandbox. Your hate clouds your vision man. No other MMO to this day can touch it for open-end play, freedom and complexity. Again, prove it.

In your fantasy the game won't (CAN'T!) ever be a good game, much less a good SW game. Most people who played it thought it sucked from day one (even in beta). That's a FACT. It was never a success.

All the insults, all the HATE you feel will never make a single difference.

I played since day one and still play - I remained with SWG through all the ups and downs and I'm proud to say that. Since the so-called "NGE" the game has seen an upward turn these last two months - REAL progress. Soon the "NGE" will morph into a new beast. Such is the nature of SWG.

Originally posted by Nikoz78

Originally posted by Shayde

Koster's vision had...

1. 32 professions.
* Two new professions coming June 5th. As time goes on more will be added.
2. Profession based system with no levels.
* So what. I agree it was better, but it's not game breaking to me.  There is a skill tree with 45 points to customize your character. True D&D game play is level based, not skill based, anyway.
3. Tools for immersive player created content
* Empty statement. Prove it's gone. Oh wait, you can't! That's because it's still there.
4. Player interdependacy
* Another empty statement. There is a lot of interdependency in the game.
5. Actual players
* Empty statement. Bloodfin hit Heavy Load often. See above pic as evidence (something you don't bother to provide).

Originally posted by Nikoz78

Originally posted by Shayde

Koster's vision had...

1. 32 professions.
* Two new professions coming June 5th. As time goes on more will be added. Whoopty mother-fracking-do. That brings us to 11? That is 21 still missing. You're also missing an assload of interdependency and cross-classes.
2. Profession based system with no levels.
* So what. I agree it was better, but it's not game breaking to me.  There is a skill tree with 45 points to customize your character. True D&D game play is level based, not skill based, anyway.  I couldn't care less about true D&D play, I want true SWG play. Not to mention they aren't skill points, they're expertise. Customization within your class, no cross classing allowed.
3. Tools for immersive player created content
* Empty statement. Prove it's gone. Oh wait, you can't! That's because it's still there. You're right, there are still tools. They just aren't used anymore.
4. Player interdependacy
* Another empty statement. There is a lot of interdependency in the game. BS. The closest you come is base-busting.  
5. Actual players
* Empty statement. Bloodfin hit Heavy Load often. See above pic as evidence (something you don't bother to provide). This one really doesn't merit a response, if you're going to spout BS, do it elsewhere. Even if it hit heavy load, its only because the parameters for when a server was at "Heavy" have been lowered huge amounts.

Show me where they still exist.
Log in and see for your self. Roll a new character and actually play the game. You can't see what isn't there.  Restuss and Mos Eisley are the only populated places (If you could call them that), period. Are they all in space, or are they all out having fun with the game? Pick your cop-out.

Raph's game is dead and gone. What is left doesn't even resemble it.
Raph's original "vision" may be missing but it was a HUGE failure either way. He left SWG a LONG, LONG time before the revamps... so yeah.  To say the game he created is "gone" is very untrue. Comparing Pre-CU and NGE, the only thing I see in common is Jedi.  Everything else is long gone.

Combat is mostly the same, you can pick 2 styles to fight with now - FPS (witch is pretty fun) or classic style. That style is about as close to Pre-CU as my ass is to Jessica Alba's.
Hated buff lines so thats great they are gone (they were unique but pretty bizarre),  having to get in a long line every three hours was a drag. I'll agree with your god buffs problem, but all it needed was a band-aid, not an amputation.

Camera view - 2 styles to choose from. Always been that way.

Legacy Quests are  wonderful for new players.  I'll agree there too.

Jedi - never wanted them in game so was never happy about it. But learned long before "NGE" to live with it. While the Jedi broke the timeline long before the NGE, they DBed it with the NGE. I never was a Jedi, but I'll tell you that they also probably didn't like their work being thrown away for Jedi to be a starter class.

Opinion: CU-3 is likely not too far away.

Plus, with them not just "re-adding" old content - but actually improving upon it before putting it back in game - this is a worthy Star Wars MMO again. It can only go UP from here on out. When you hit rock bottom, of course you can only go up.

Feel free to tell me you hate SOE and this game post-NGE. But don't tell me it's not a thousand times better than it was even two months ago. Yeah, sure. Doesn't make the game great, just above the "Complete and utter shit line"

You are way off by claiming SWG today is not still a sandbox. Your hate clouds your vision man. No other MMO to this day can touch it for open-end play, freedom and complexity. Again, prove it. Complexity, I'm literally rolling on the floor laughing at this one. Freedom and open-ended play you got me on, Because the world is pretty big and you don't have to do anything. But EVE has all three of those, refined even more so, and we got lots of games coming up with some of this stuff. I'll stick it out and wait.

In your fantasy the game won't (CAN'T!) ever be a good game, much less a good SW game. Most people who played it thought it sucked from day one (even in beta). That's a FACT. It was never a success.  Buddy, the only successful MMORPG nowdays is WoW, but back when this thing came out, it was near the top of the heap.

All the insults, all the HATE you feel will never make a single difference. Its likely, but it makes me feel better.

I played since day one and still play - I remained with SWG through all the ups and downs and I'm proud to say that. Since the so-called "NGE" the game has seen an upward turn these last two months - REAL progress. Soon the "NGE" will morph into a new beast. Such is the nature of SWG. Its sad that to create real progress you must bring everything to a new low so you can build it back up again.