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News & Features Discussion  » General: MMOWTF: Feel The <3

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29 posts found
  Stradden

Managing Editor

Joined: 7/08/05
Posts: 6729

 
OP  2/05/07 10:49:07 AM#1

Dan Fortier returns this week to talk about the way that your gaming life can affect your real life and vice versa.

It's Monday morning an you stroll into work, late as usual, greet your fellow co-workers and head to your desk. Out of nowhere some guy from a different department you've never seen before runs up and starts punching you and is quickly joined by two of his buddies. You've been working at your job a lot longer so none of the punches land and you easily kill two of them before the other runs off cursing about how you cheated. You squat over your assailants and do the running man dance and throw in a bit of 'the Robot' for good measure to insure that they are suitably humiliated. Before heading off you loot them for whatever office supplies they had on them to sell to some of the new guys.

Read the rest of Dan's Column here.

Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com

  severius

Elite Member

Joined: 8/10/04
Posts: 1527

2/05/07 11:08:50 AM#2
Absolutely fantastic article.

For one thing I have always viewed my virtual persona as an extension of myself.  Philosophically speaking pretty much every religion the face of this planet believes in some sort of soul or spirit that resides either within or around our physical selves.  While environment etc has something to do with the way we turn out, there is still something within, something seperate from the joys or horrors of our upbringing that makes each of us who we are.  Personally my actions in game etc are precisely the same actions I would take if through some great cosmic joke I were physically moved to an alternate plane of existence where cars were replaced with some fantastic critter and people went from wearing levis to wearing robes wielding swords or blaster rifles.

I have always felt that games are a great way to get to know other people precisely because of the anonymity that exists because people show their true colors when they think you wont find out about em.


  Axel69

Novice Member

Joined: 4/07/03
Posts: 2

2/05/07 11:16:24 AM#3

>_>  <_<

 

no flames for Dan today?

 

Nutz to Dan

  User Deleted
2/05/07 11:44:03 AM#4
The first two paragraphs have just become an inter office memo at my office =)
  Veingloria

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/04
Posts: 50

2/05/07 11:55:47 AM#5

LOL.  I work in a very small setting, so there was no need to make it a memo.  We have, however, taken to heart  the deeper meaning of Feeling the <3... and have declared Mondays double XP day and Fridays for naked-newbie-begging.  Now, if only I could find an item to boost my grant writing skills so I could kill off this Boss RFP.

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth
The first two paragraphs have just become an inter office memo at my office =)

  Anofalye

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/19/03
Posts: 7442

The enemy is so dumb! They believe that WE are the enemy! - A famous orc commander.

2/05/07 12:01:57 PM#6

LOL, Dan, you obviously play games where peoples are jerks and unkind.

 

Personnally, when I play a game, I seldom suffer PK, even in an open PvP zone, 99% of the players are nice with me and asking for a fight, rather than attacking.

 

But again, maybe this has something to do with your vision on raiding-enforcement and the type of players the games you play will attract.

- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - René Levesque about the denial NO on the poll to his dream, project and goal. (Free translation)

  User Deleted
2/05/07 12:05:34 PM#7
Originally posted by Anofalye

LOL, Dan, you obviously play games where peoples are jerks and unkind.

 

Personnally, when I play a game, I seldom suffer PK, even in an open PvP zone, 99% of the players are nice with me and asking for a fight, rather than attacking.

 

But again, maybe this has something to do with your vision on raiding-enforcement and the type of players the games you play will attract.

No, he just plays mmo's, and they happen to be on the inter-tubes, so, yeah...all kinds. I have seen what he describes in every game I have played, and there isn’t a game on the list here that i have not tried.

  DrowNoble

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/12/05
Posts: 1283

2/05/07 12:13:10 PM#8

Amazing that yet again Dan brings pvp into a discussion.  He always finds a way to wiggle pvp into his commentary. 

Some of his comments were either a tad extreme or sounded like the exception to the rule.  In any game where there is pvp of any kind you will always find PK'ers, gankers and/or griefing.  This is nothing new, some people have RL "issues" that they can't express out in the world but they can ingame.  Maybe they were bullied as a child or were a bully themselves and now they find they can "pwn"  other people with little or no reprocussions.  I knew a guy in DAoC that was proud of the fact that of his 1 mil+ realm points probably 99% were from ganking people level 30 or lower (he was 50 Infiltrator). 

I was hoping that when blizzard announced dishonorable kills this would finally be a first step to truly discouraging PK'ers and the like, but their "DK's" were rather a half-hearted attempt at any sort of ganking penalty.  Now, they've removed them altogether, so I've had friends already telling me that almost daily the smaller towns with lvl 40ish guards are getting slaughtered down to the last NPC.  Blizzard's officialy response to this?  "Well they are flagged so you can do something about it"   Riiiiight, a bunch of lvl 15's at the Crossroads are sure gonna teach that 70 to not mess with them. 

From my own experience the only impact a game has had on my real life is typically a bit of lost sleep on occasion.  I have enough willpower to turn off a game when I need to.  Sometimes for a certain raid, an ingame event, etc I'll stay up a bit later to experience it. 

  Runny123

Novice Member

Joined: 8/24/06
Posts: 173

You''d like that.

2/05/07 12:15:21 PM#9
This article = ftw
runny123 Xfire Miniprofile
  brihtwulf

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/08/03
Posts: 850

2/05/07 12:24:57 PM#10
I have to say that I've thought some of your material was of dubious content, but this article is hilarious and well-thought!  I hadn't really thought much about some of the points you brought up, but it makes a lot of sense.  I can definately see that some people take the games way too seriously and get into it more than they should.  I'll have to forward this article around.  I don't have an "office", so no memos for me...

  xantero

Novice Member

Joined: 8/30/06
Posts: 8

2/05/07 12:39:32 PM#11

well fellows thats truth  come ppl forget  the real world and get inside of his character all day  thats the problem at the schools  if the kid play CS or WOW  he might be a terrorist all day or  A DAWRF? xD  my brother its a  power ranger all day.

this games  are not a problem the problem is that no one can control the children  or grown up people  is the same thing  the man its  always a little child xD  i Am .

in the  college  im a dwarf all day  and at night im a  night elf,  all gamers knows what im talikng about.

we must know what is righht and what is wrong. being an  elf its not wrong  the problem came when you buy a bow in amazon and start pking all ppl in office thats a damm fking problem.

so lets send this link to every one to  comment this problem of the society. well bye fellows

i think today im a dwarf XD i will teleport to giran in my car and buy some food at the grocery .

 

serrano556 Xfire Miniprofile
  Anofalye

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/19/03
Posts: 7442

The enemy is so dumb! They believe that WE are the enemy! - A famous orc commander.

2/05/07 1:07:29 PM#12
Originally posted by Mrbloodworth
Originally posted by Anofalye

LOL, Dan, you obviously play games where peoples are jerks and unkind.

 

Personnally, when I play a game, I seldom suffer PK, even in an open PvP zone, 99% of the players are nice with me and asking for a fight, rather than attacking.

 

But again, maybe this has something to do with your vision on raiding-enforcement and the type of players the games you play will attract.

No, he just plays mmo's, and they happen to be on the inter-tubes, so, yeah...all kinds. I have seen what he describes in every game I have played, and there isn’t a game on the list here that i have not tried.


Well, in playing CoV for a long time...I have been "random attacked" by 2 groups of player....in a VERY long time.  It is always the same few players, it is easy to walk around them or to ward them off.

 

Twice doesn't exactly fit in that, especially that the peoples attacking where cold, efficient, not talktative, which mean they may be working for other MMOs and enjoying playing in competitors MMOs, even if they are themselves below the level of player courtesy...and hunting them back is always great pleasure.  These players are efficient, but easy to distract.

 

So again, the symptoms he describes, come from harsh environment.  If you come to CoV, you bring your background and you may be harsh yourself, until teached otherwise, assuming this is possible.

 

Again, the MMOs he plays and his choices to support an aspect or not in the design of the MMO, such as the raid-enforcement trash he is supporting, leads to what he describe.  If I am been "ganked" and ask for help, the poor gankers are pwned soo bad it isn't funny, so I don't ask for that but once, when I see the results, I find it is funnier to play with the gankers and find other alternatives then call my buddies.

 

See, if you ignore someone attacking you, 95% of the time he will stop.  Some players think that because you are in an open PvP zone you want to PvP, which is not always the case...so if they understand you don't want to, they almost always leave you alone...a test I like to do, is put my AFK tag and wait.  Then pwns whoever is the clown to attack me...again these are players who doesn't talk, nor chat, nor anything...peoples I never meet or doesn't even know...they live in their bubbles...which seem to be peoples working for a competitor.  If Brad is playing CoV, he is going to be a jerk, you can't change him!    But you can pwns him! 

- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - René Levesque about the denial NO on the poll to his dream, project and goal. (Free translation)

  Meon

Novice Member

Joined: 1/14/06
Posts: 984

Dissimulo, sed non ignoro

2/05/07 1:30:42 PM#13

A great article! although i must say that the major part of the MMO community (if you exclude WoW and Runescape) isn't made up of the people the author describes in this article.

  Mordacai

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/13/06
Posts: 310

There are only 10 kinds of people in the world. Those that understand Binary and those that do not.

2/05/07 2:04:12 PM#14
You also have extreme cases as well, I was reading a forum post which led me to an external news article, on the  true crimes web site there is actually a true story there about some nut case found walking naked. When the cops picked him up he was found with specs of blood all over himself. When questioned it was determined that this guy basically hacked up 2 people with his 1 handed axe +2 skullbashing. It was determined that he had ganked the first guy that opened the door as a surpise stun attack. Then the 2nd person was then skullcrushed and head split but was still alive and trying to make a run for it when he started hacking various limbs. He then finally made the deathblow on his victim in their bedroom of their house just as they were going to call for help. /deathblow. He then declared himself PK King took a shower and then walked out into the street. 

Obviously this is an extreme case of an Everquestor warriror gone wild but I thought it had some bearing at the topic at hand. It is not the 1st case of such a thing happening as well. For example the death of the kid over the weapon in WOW. Again, extreme cases but these happen and are happening more frequently lately. Granted, these people all have dillusional physcoitc problems already but it doesn't take much for the 2 worlds to merge as it did in these cases. What Dan brought up about talking around the water cooler and how you pwn some noob mage in a gankfest over the weekend is nowadays a common conversation which can be heard in scuttlebutt at work.

http://www.forceofarms.com/index.php

  Robbgobb

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/03/03
Posts: 424

2/05/07 2:05:12 PM#15

I enjoyed the article. I do understand a lot of what was written. My main problem this time is it needed to be proofread. I know at least 3 instanances that it had the wrong word and normally it does not bother me or I really catch it, this time it actually made me stop and go back to see if I misread something.

Loved the start of the article. Then talking about what people do was interesting. I am one that just plays for fun so I pick my class based on what sounds fun to me. Generally speaking it has been different for almost every game.

  necrotherion

Novice Member

Joined: 12/08/06
Posts: 129

"The Pope? How many divisions has he got?" - Joe Stalin

2/05/07 2:33:16 PM#16
First 2 paragraphs = copied, pasted, printed, framed.

LOL. Great article. I especially enjoyed it, and I must say I agree with you on a number of points. I personally make the polar opposite of my persona (a benevolent, frail, yet silver-tongued healer) and I agree that whether due to the stress of retaining my composure during daily life, talks with girls, talks with teachers, talks with prinicples, etc., I tend to sometimes be a bit of a jackass online, but that's only if the reverse is true. In this respect, I think WoW has the rudest community ever. I  was shocked that less than half the people I PSTed (for various things such as joining groups or proclaiming that I had an item they needed) never whispered back. I at least always whispered "no, sorry" and gave them the reason. It could be that alliance is gay, or that that server was gay, but people do tend to act more like selfish asses online, but since they're taking a break from RL, I guess that's ok.
  yuldigh

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/04/04
Posts: 6

2/05/07 3:56:04 PM#17
Originally posted by Anofalye
Originally posted by Mrbloodworth
Originally posted by Anofalye

LOL, Dan, you obviously play games where peoples are jerks and unkind.

 

Personnally, when I play a game, I seldom suffer PK, even in an open PvP zone, 99% of the players are nice with me and asking for a fight, rather than attacking.

 

But again, maybe this has something to do with your vision on raiding-enforcement and the type of players the games you play will attract.

No, he just plays mmo's, and they happen to be on the inter-tubes, so, yeah...all kinds. I have seen what he describes in every game I have played, and there isn’t a game on the list here that i have not tried.


Well, in playing CoV for a long time...I have been "random attacked" by 2 groups of player....in a VERY long time.  It is always the same few players, it is easy to walk around them or to ward them off.

 

Twice doesn't exactly fit in that, especially that the peoples attacking where cold, efficient, not talktative, which mean they may be working for other MMOs and enjoying playing in competitors MMOs, even if they are themselves below the level of player courtesy...and hunting them back is always great pleasure.  These players are efficient, but easy to distract.

 

So again, the symptoms he describes, come from harsh environment.  If you come to CoV, you bring your background and you may be harsh yourself, until teached otherwise, assuming this is possible.

 

Again, the MMOs he plays and his choices to support an aspect or not in the design of the MMO, such as the raid-enforcement trash he is supporting, leads to what he describe.  If I am been "ganked" and ask for help, the poor gankers are pwned soo bad it isn't funny, so I don't ask for that but once, when I see the results, I find it is funnier to play with the gankers and find other alternatives then call my buddies.

 

See, if you ignore someone attacking you, 95% of the time he will stop.  Some players think that because you are in an open PvP zone you want to PvP, which is not always the case...so if they understand you don't want to, they almost always leave you alone...a test I like to do, is put my AFK tag and wait.  Then pwns whoever is the clown to attack me...again these are players who doesn't talk, nor chat, nor anything...peoples I never meet or doesn't even know...they live in their bubbles...which seem to be peoples working for a competitor.  If Brad is playing CoV, he is going to be a jerk, you can't change him!    But you can pwns him! 

CoV/CoH is not a real PvP game. It was added into CoH and there are no true PvP servers. I have played both CoH and CoV for a couple years,so I know what I am talking about. There are raids btw, remember Hamidon?. And you forget to mention  that the servers are pretty much desolate anymore. Fans of superhero games also tend not to want to PvP but be a Hero. CoH/CoV is a bad example, even if the game was hardcore raiding at the endgame, the players would still most likely not PK etc.

I played Shadowbane for over a year and got PKed a ton. Guess what? SB has ZERO raiding in it, just pure PVP. I am not a fan of raiding, but it is not the cause of every problem in the MMORPG universe like you always claim. Give it a rest, please.

  delateur

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/06/04
Posts: 157

2/05/07 4:20:06 PM#18

For good or ill, I tend to be the person I am, on and offline. If I make a character that appears different from my real life persona (which almost always happens, since I envision myself being an ideal weight rather than the overweight version of myself I currently am), I still behave basically as who I am. In CoH/V, I make about 50/50 male/female characters, of all different shapes and sizes. I don't attempt to roleplay a girl, mainly because I don't think I'd do it well, or that if I really did roleplay it well, it would lead to too many awkward moments. Happily, men playing women and vice versa has become pretty common and accepted in the MMOG community, so when it matters to a person what gender you are in real life, they will usually ask you.

I have to disagree with the idea that people will tend to act out their darker tendencies online where there is anonymity, however. I believe people who treat you poorly in-game will do the same in any situation where they think they can get away with it. In other words, I don't come online and post in forums or on chatrooms to vent the frustrations of what I can't get away with in real life. I do, however, believe there are plenty of closet sociopaths out there that experience a strong disconnect from any unifying institutions or cohesive and respectable cultural models, at least in my country (the United States). There are a lot of factors that contribute to this, but ultimately one factor is the individual simply gives up trying to find a sense of belonging in some facet or facets of the human race. MMOGs provide a perfect element for us to see such things.

As to the article in its totality, I found it quite entertaining and a very good read. Nice work, Dan.

  modernmilk

Novice Member

Joined: 12/24/04
Posts: 7

2/05/07 4:28:18 PM#19
Wow.  This was a great read.  Not just the article itself, but also the forum discussion.
I really felt that I should offer my appreciation here.
I'd also like to say something about my experiences in mmorpgs and how it reflects my real-life personality;
My favorite aspect of these kind of games is playing in groups with other players.  For that reason, I am able to have mostly good social experiences in every game that I get into.  I know that I'm not really making a great point here but the(perhaps vague) truth is that the reason why I have such kind experiences in games is because I extend kindness to others in the game as a pre emptive measure.  "be good to her and she will be good to you" - a Hal Hartley quote.
Of course there are those negative experiences and I would accredit those instances to the fact that I sometimes say insulting comments to other people whilst pretending that the receiver of these comments won't take them personally.  Like Dan said in his article, this is not something that I would do outside of a game environment.  However, this does make me think of how my friends, as well as strangers, that I play 4-player console games with will trash talk each-other during game-play.  Sometimes those pseudo-insults are taken personally and sometimes they aren't.

cheers
  NameWasTaken

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/06
Posts: 139

2/05/07 4:46:36 PM#20
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