These attributes will remain the same (gear excluded) until you reach level 10. Once you reach level 10 you will begin receiving attribute points to assign.

You get 20 points per level.
a) 1 point automatically goes into each stat (6 points).
b) 2 points are automatically assigned based on your class (see chart 1-2).
c) 2 points are automatically assigned based on your race (see chart 1-3).
d) 10 points are awarded to the player to assign as he/she sees fit. Awarded 2 points at a time every 20% of the level.

By default, the attribute cap is increased by 5 points per level in all attributes. Note: when spending attribute points this includes the points that are automatically spent for you. Each race has preferred attributes. On these attributes the cap is increased by one or two points. (see Chart 1-4) Each race has either three attributes that cap at 6 points per level or two attributes - one that caps at 7 points per level and another that caps at 6 points per level.

For instance, Kurashasa have a 7 point per level cap on intelligence and a 6 point per level cap on vitality. The rest of their attributes cap at 5 points per level.

After Attribute Points have been allocated you must spend Refund Points to reclaim used Attribute Points. Every one Refund Point will allow you to decrement one Attribute Point from any one attribute, thus increasing your available Attribute Points pool by one.

Refund points are granted to the player as they earn adventuring experience. Thus, Refund Points will accumulate faster as you increase in level. Refund Points can only be used to reclaim Attribute Points that were allocated manually.

I’ll run you through a couple examples to help clarify and show why race will play an important role.

Example 1: 1st we’ll make a Dark Elf Sorcerer. Level 1: Str:30 Con:25 Dex:20 Vit:35 Int:50 Wis:50 (level 1-9 race makes no difference).

At level 10 we begin to get our cap increases and points to assign and racials show a small difference. And being a Sorcerer we’ll want to max out Int, Wis, and put the rest in Vit for in combat regeneration. Number in [ ] will be potential cap.

a) 1 point automatically goes into each stat (6 points).
b) 2 points are automatically assigned based on your class (+1int, +1wis).
c) 2 points are automatically assigned based on your race (+1int, +1wis).
d) 10 points are awarded to the player to assign as he/she sees fit. Awarded 2 points at a time every 20% of the level.

Level 10:
Str: 30 +1 (+5cap, 4 left for allocation)
Dex: 25 +1 (+5 cap, 4 left for allocation)
Con: 25 +1 (+5 cap, 4 left for allocation)
Vit: 35 +1 (+5 cap, 4 left for allocation)
Int: 50 +1 +1+1 (+6 cap, 3 left for allocation)
Wis: 50 +1 +1 +1 (+7 cap, 4 left for allocation)

So now at 10.8 you could have these stats. (10 points to manually allocate)
Str: 31 (35 max)
Dex: 26 (30 max)
Con: 21 (25 max)
Vit: 39 (40 max)
Int: 56 (56 max)
Wis: 57 (57 max)

Because of the way racials are working we can cap out Int & Wis and almost cap out Vit.

At level 50 (410 points to spend) this will be your base stats w/o gear:

Level 50: Str:71[235] Con:66[230] Dex:61[225] Vit:199[240] Int:296[296] Wis:337[337]

Example 2: Ok now to show why racial choice may be important lets make a Qualia Human Sorcerer.

a) 1 point automatically goes into each stat (6 points).
b) 2 points are automatically assigned based on your class (+1int, +1wis).
c) 2 points are automatically assigned based on your race (+1dex, +1wis).
d) 10 points are awarded to the player to assign as he/she sees fit. Awarded 2 points at a time every 20% of the level.

Now lets compare the two at level 50 to see the difference.

DE: Str:71[235] Con:66[230] Dex: 61[225] Vit:240[240] Int:296[296] Wis:337[337]
QH: Str:71[233] Con:66[230] Dex:102[266] Vit:199[281] Int:255[255] Wis:296[296]

0 0 +41 0 -40 -41

Of the two most important stats for the Sorcerer at level 50 the Qalian Human is going to have 40 less Int and, 41 less Wis. That’s approximately 8 levels difference stat wise.

The totals shown at level 50 differ. I suspect that the Vitality figures for DE and QH should be switched, because QH has a Vitality bonus and that's one of the areas that the DE is starving to max Wisdom and Intelligence. The OP's point is the same, but the figures make the QH sorcerer look more wimpy than it really should be.

It would be interesting to see if the differences balance out with different playstyles. Right off, it looks like the DE offensive caster is more of a group caster, but is less survivable unless well-supported in a group. The QH offensive caster can't reach the DE "broadside" cap, but the regen rate and slight defensive advantages may allow them to get out of more tight situations solo or in non-optimal groups.

holy crap - is this a game or math class?

hehe - pretty usefull i imagine for those powergamers though

me - i just like to play and hope for the best

Jerrith

Sigil Games Online

 

Join Date: 2004 Jan

Re: Attributes Cap questions due to Build 01689 Patch

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In the old system maximums were considered as:
6 points per level from character
2.5 points per level from items
2.5 points per level from buffs.

6 + 2.5 + 2.5 = 11

Now the new total is 18 instead of 11.

__________________
AR Schleicher
Programmer
Sigil Games Online

db0t

Sigil Games Online

 

Join Date: 2004 Jan

Re: Attributes Cap questions due to Build 01689 Patch

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Hopefully I will be able to clear up some of the confusion.

I would like to start off with why we made this change. For a long time we have been trying out the idea that players should be able to max out or hit their “cap” in multiple attributes. We have finally decided this just doesn’t accomplish what we want and dramatically diminishes the potential significance of items. As an item-centric game this was not acceptable to us.

The change to caps means that now someone will only be able to reach the soft cap of 18 under the most extreme conditions. So extreme that it will likely not be possible at release. There is now breathing room for increases in player power (which is important to us).

Attribute growth and racial attributes:

Attribute allocation works basically the same as it always has. However, we do have new racial attribute growth coming in a patch. This accounts for the value of 6 in Jerrith’s post earlier.

All characters start with attributes based on their class. Attribute growth is controlled by race (when the new racial attributes go in the class will no longer be a factor). The attribute pool is still 20 points per level starting at level 10.

For those of you familiar with the attribute growth in Vanguard there is two primary components. Attribute “caps” from race and automatic allocation from race. It is important to understand that the caps from your race don’t have a direct relationship to the old cap of 11 points per level or the new soft cap of 18 points per level. The race caps on attribute reflect how many points can go into the attribute per level.

What does this do? With the cap of 11 it means that you reach your maximum with less gear, earlier. In some ways this is a bonus and in others it is a penalty. With the harder to reach soft cap of 18 these racial bonuses carry more weight. We want them to be a more significant choice.

The second part of the equation is automatic allocation. All characters in the world of Vanguard earn a global pool of 20 point per level as a mentioned earlier. Of this global pool every attribute always gains 1 point when you level. This leaves 14 points for customization. In concert with the racial caps points are usually automatically allocated to fill in the cap bonus for the race. For example, in the old racial bonuses a Halfing had a dexterity cap bonus of 2 points per level. They also had 2 points per level automatically allocated to dexterity. This allows races to grown in their own special ways while still giving players room to customize most of their attribute growth.

For the new attribute cap bonuses we are intending:


STR CON DEX VIT WIS INT
BarbarianQalia 2 1 0 0 1 0
BarbarianThestra 2 1 0 0 1 0
Dwarf 0 3 0 0 1 0
ElfDark 0 0 1 0 1 2
ElfHigh 0 0 0 0 3 1
ElfWood 0 0 2 2 0 0
Gnome 0 1 0 1 0 2
Goblin 0 0 1 0 0 3
HalfElf 0 0 2 1 1 0
HalfGiant 3 1 0 0 0 0
Halfling 0 0 3 0 1 0
HumanKojan 1 1 1 1 1 1
HumanMordebi 1 1 1 1 1 1
HumanQalia 1 1 1 1 1 1
HumanThestra 1 1 1 1 1 1
Kurashasa 0 1 0 0 1 2
Orc 2 0 0 2 0 0
Raki 0 0 2 2 0 0
Vulmane 0 1 1 0 2 0

The attribute cap in pointer per level can be found by adding 5 to the value in the above table.

The new automatic allocation and customization points we are intending:

STR CON DEX VIT WIS INT Points to Spend
BarbarianQalia 2 1 0 0 1 0 10
BarbarianThestra 2 1 0 0 1 0 10
Dwarf 0 3 0 0 1 0 10
ElfDark 0 0 1 0 1 2 10
ElfHigh 0 0 0 0 3 1 10
ElfWood 0 0 2 2 0 0 10
Gnome 0 1 0 1 0 2 10
Goblin 0 0 1 0 0 3 10
HalfElf 0 0 2 1 1 0 10
HalfGiant 3 1 0 0 0 0 10
Halfling 0 0 3 0 1 0 10
HumanKojan 0 0 0 0 0 0 14
HumanMordebi 0 0 0 0 0 0 14
HumanQalia 0 0 0 0 0 0 14
HumanThestra 0 0 0 0 0 0 14
Kurashasa 0 1 0 0 1 2 10
Orc 2 0 0 2 0 0 10
Raki 0 0 2 2 0 0 10
Vulmane 0 1 1 0 2 0 10

You may spend points in an attribute until you have reached your racial cap.

Buffs:

The next portion of player attributes comes from buffs. The portion coming from buffs has not been altered. They will continue to be a very significant reward that is basically free and in many cases a bonus to be in a group with others.

Items:

Items now have the potential to do more. Players have more flexibility with the items they want to use. We thought that allowing items to relatively quickly bring players to their caps would make them want to diversify (“max” more than one attribute). This worked well for some people. However for others it was forced. Many people would get a new item that buffed their favorite attribute and it wouldn’t feel much of an effect because they had already hit their intended max on that particular attribute.

Players now have the option of taking a more extreme route and focuses on one or two attributes. However, the cost in other areas of trying to “max out” a single attribute is high. We feel that the rewards granted for every class across multiple attributes will mean the best players will have some diversification. Ultimately, this more open ended approach will give us each more control as we play.

Several people have voiced some concern regarding changes in the current state of their character. Many people had their character maxed out in multiple ways at level 40. Fortunately, you are no longer maxed out. However, the bonuses you get from high attribute points to things like damage have not remained exactly the same.

Along with increasing the intended cap for attributes we have made a soft cap the standard if one does reach it. We have also increased the amount of contribution attributes can have across the board. Of course, this makes sense since there is a lot more ground that can be covered. The attribute bonus increase factors are based on the previous contribution of the attribute and the desired contribute of the attribute. In most cases this will not leave you with the exact same bonus that you had prior to the changes.

Not everything has been rescaled yet but will be in the next few days as we prepare for release. For example, the maximum size for energy pools has not changed. So in this area people will likely feel like they have significantly less energy than previously. All of the combat attribute contributions were adjusted with the cap changes patch.

Please remember we are doing a lot of intense balance work now as well. Adjusting things like damage, mitigation and evasion is a big part of that. We will be continuing these types of changes we wrap up the pre-release class and archetype balancing and get our solo and group combat experience nailed down.

Thanks everyone for all of your dedication as beta testers. By pushing the limits of Vanguard you have been a huge factor in making the game as great as it has become. These dramatic improvements are just one example of that process. Please continue pushing us as beta comes to a close and we get ready to go live.

__________________
David Forrest
Senior Programmer
Sigil Games Online, Inc

Duhn

Senior Member

 

Join Date: 2006 Jun

Re: Attributes Cap questions due to Build 01689 Patch

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Quote:

Originally Posted by platypus2308 not 100% sure myself but i think the racial cap are soft cap . so the hard cap is the same for all.

The terms "soft cap" and "hard cap" are too ambigous to work well in this kind of conversation, everyone seems to understand something different by them. The whole problem would maybe not exist if the term "cap" was not used in 2 different ways here:

1. There is a "cap" for how high you attributes can be each level (18 x level). You can not have a higher value in any attribute. This is the same for any race. It does not matter where you get that value from (racial stats, items, buffs...).
   
2. And there is a "cap" to how much attribute points you can spend on a single attribute per level. This differs by race.

Quote:

Originally Posted by platypus2308 isn't the +1 bonus to all stats for human too much ? i'd say give humans +1 to 5 stats , that would makes possibles one point bonuses difference between the 4 humans race . just my 2cp

The racial "bonus" to each attributes is really only a bonus to the second type of cap, not stats they get for free. Let's make an example:

I am a sorceror at the end of level 10, just 1 kill away from Ding 11. I have gotten 20 points for all my attributes during level 10. 6 of those were distributed evenly to all my attributes, raising each of them by 1. Let's assume I want to max my INT.

Now the racial differences start. We have 14 points left:

• If I am a Human Sorcerer, the game does not allocate any more points for me, I am free to distribute 14 points. I can put 5 points into INT (5 default + 1 bonus for humans - 1 for the automatic point). I can allocate the remaining 8 points to the other stats, not more then 5 in any of them (again, 5 default and 1 human bonus, minus 1 that has been put in there already).
  
• If I am a Dark Elf Sorcerer, the game allocated 2 points in INT for me (and 1 WIS, 1 DEX). I am free to distribute 10 remaining points. I can put 4 into INT (5 default, the racial bonus of 2 has been used up by the automatic allocation, as well as 1 point for each stat).
  
• If I am a Dwarf Sorcerer, the game put 0 points into INT for me, but 3 into CON and 1 into WIS. Again I can put 4 points into INT manually (5 default + 0 racial bonus - 1 put in there already autmatically for all races), and can distribute the remaining 5 to other stats.

So, at the end of our allocation process, the human has 6 more INT (5 manually, 1 automatic for all races), the Dark Elf has 7 more INT (4 manually, 1 automatic for all races, 2 automatic for Dark Elf), the Dwarf has 5 more INT (4 manually, 1 automatic for all races).

The "cap" (type 1) for INT at level 10 would be 180, same for all races. Meaning I can not have more then 180 INT. To cap INT, the human has to provide 174 INT from buffs, items and starting stats, the Dark Elf needs / can have 173 more and the poor Dwarf needs 175 INT to reach the cap of 180.

I hope I understood everything correctly and was able to explain it in an understandeable way.

*Edit* Updated with the 1 point auto allocation to all stats counting towards the cap (type 2).

Shaman should be:
| 30 | 30 | 25 | 35 | 40 | 50

My File have:
| 30 | 25 | 20 | 35 | 50 | 50

The races in Vanguard have new attribute bonuses!

Starting at level 10 characters start to gain racial attributes. The following table illustrates the attribute bonus attribute points that a character will receive. All characters receive one point in every attribute each level in addition to the bonus points.

In addition to the bonus points each race with the exception of the four human races (Kokani, Mordebi, Qaliathari and Thestran) earns 10 attribute customization points per level. The non-human races may spend up to 4 attribute points in each attribute per level. They do not all have to be spent at the same time. At level 11 a character could have spent 8 points total in any one attribute. The human races gain 14 attribute customization points per level and may spend 5 points in a single attribute per level.

There is no longer attribute gain associated with your class.

OK so the above may not be very clear but I thought it might be of interest to some.  I had the oportunity to buff/level two characters to lvl 35 just before the beta ended.  I chose two warriors, a Halfling and a Dwarf to get a feel for which stats are more relivant.  Of note is the Actual stat line, as the buff script auto spent your attribute points.  I found it interesting that the individual who wrote teh buff script allocated all points to Con, Dex, and Vitality.

Both characters were equipped with near identical gear, the difference was in the weapon equipped.