Yep, you heard me. The annoying, brain-dead, wretched trolls actually have some pretty solid points with this game. It's awful.

I was invited to the closed beta several months back and I went in unprejudiced... I wanted to give the game a fair shake. After slogging through the gauntlet of technical issues just to install/run the game for the first time, I was tremendously under whelmed. Even considering that my system specs solidly beat the recommendations, it still lagged like a piece of shit. It's a beta. I got it. I moved on. The problem was that have beta tested a LOT of games over the years, and this was among the worst. I began to realize that it wasn't even the technical problems, but the game itself that was so disappointing. Frankly, I didn't have the patience to suffer through middle range beta so I ditched it. I uninstalled the game and deleted the massive fucking download that took me two days just to make work.

Flash to present day, I decided, against my better judgment, to give it another chance. I tool the Fileplanet offer, downloaded +6 Gigs, ran the 17+ Gig installation, and started up the game. I'm still bloody under whelmed. This game is a monolithic waste of hard drive space and nothing more.

Here is my litany.

They ripped off WoW. Admit it. I don't know how the hell they dodged lawsuits. Even the Character Creator looks like the bastard child of World of Warcraft and Star Wars: Galaxies. Two games you do NOT want to rip off. The UI is practically a straight up copy of WoW's with very, very few changes (come to think of it, The Lord of the Rings Online did this too... I see a pattern developing) but it STILL manages to feel clumsier somehow. It didn't take five minutes to feel like I was playing a shitty beta rehash of WoW with even worse fake looking graphics. The nail in the coffin? The quest system. Ifuckingdentical. Kill 8 of X. Bring me 8 of Y. It's the same pointless quest Grind that I ditched when I killed by WoW account in February of 06.

The Graphics. They are supposed to be good. With how much fucking system recourses they chew up you'd think they would be good. They aren't. The world looks like cobbled together 3D models with bad texture skinning, poor lighting, and nothing to distract from the shear lifelessness of the world. I can't stand the fact that buildings, trees, rocks, ruins, etc, all look like they were just dropped on a flat piece surface painted to look like grass. However, my biggest gripe is that the character models look like corpses... Maybe they tried hard to look "real" and failed miserably, maybe they actually succeeded and fell into The Uncanny Valley, or maybe they just have no idea how to simulate life. I don't know, but it feels like death... At this point, I probably don't even need to MENTION the animations. They're horrible. End of story.

The system requirements are ridiculous. For how bad this game looks, there is no excuse for how much this game needs to play "well" (still a disappointingly relative term) and frankly, no one in their right mind is going to pay to buy the kind of computer needed JUST TO PLAY THIS GAME. This fact alone alienates a massive amount of casual gamers who will NEVER see this game as being worth the time and money needed to play it. Once you start limiting the player base, the number of players falls. Once the community starts to shrink to a small group of hardcore fanboys who don't WANT to budge from their clique, it already becomes the beginning of the end.

Now, I realize that this game is still in beta. Put that aside for a moment and go read the FAQ on the official website. Find all the references to "Not in at launch", "planned for after launch", "we didn't have enough time to add", etc, etc... That is just the main content, not even counting the shear lack of polish, balance, or even debugging. This game is in the final stage of beta and content is still missing and classes are still broken. This game will launch prematurely, it will stumble in the first three months, and people will leave in droves before it even comes close to being a solid product. Worse still, those people won't come back. Not only will the game not make big bucks for anyone, but the game world itself will be practically barren (made even worse by the shear size of it).

Unfortunate and disappointing though it may be, this game is doomed.

It's in its final stage of beta, solemnly marching to its own sad demise. Honestly, for how often the developers dropped their own names pimping this shoddy piece of shit, they’re going to have to hide in a cave for a few years. This game is going to be massacred by critics and public opinion.

Originally posted by joemc3
So you beta tested a game it it had problems who knew........

If the problems were minor or if the release date were months away, I'd share in your sarcasm.  However, given that the game is a mere 3 weeks from retail, and the problems are significant, I think reality might be knocking. 

Originally posted by joemc3
So you beta tested a game it it had problems who knew........should warhammer universe sue wow for ripping off majority of its character models and style?? should eq 1 sue wow for using many of its ideas....seriously you suck.

Come to think of it, I actually remember reading something about Games Workshop suing Blizzard back in the day because Starcraft was a pretty damn obvious rip-off of Warhammer 40K. World of Warcraft has enough of its own history and background material to be considered its own unique intellectual property.

Besides, I know damn well that Blizzard ripped off basically every MMO previously made to build WoW. My point is that Vanguard is now ripping off WoW and making a shittier product at that.

I quit WoW a long time ago because I couldn't stomach how lame it was. I never said it was a better game.

Originally posted by crusher143
Well I hope iam getting a beta key tomorow, but Iam not really excited about this game anymore. Your description of Vanguard could be mine about EQ2, thats how I felt about EQ2, seems to be a clone of it oh well to sad but somehow we knew it would be a clone :/ but have to see myself.

Cant really say more cause I didnt play the game but from what Ive seen from screenshots and videos, graphic is really looking like EQ2 one I mean everywhere this brown and grey /ugly, I really hope Iam wrong but I doubt it.

I will check it out myself but anyways thanks for your info.

It most closely resembles an incomplete and poorly designed combination of World of Warcraft, Everquest II, and Star Wars: Galaxies while they were still in beta. Most of the complaints people had for EQII could be used here...

And yeah, I hate the graphics style they used for EQII and Vanguard. It tries so hard to be "real" but ends up looking fake, lifeless, and unremarkable. It's ugly to look at.

Originally posted by synergi
Funny thing... EQ2 is a far better game.. both grapically and stability. Vanguard runs worse on most pc's then EQ2 does and EQ2's graphics are much more detailed and demanding.

Originally posted by Psycked
Note to self... if the words sh*t, sh*tting, f*ck, f*cking, f*cked appear in a post more than once ignore and move on.

Clearly you have no appreciation for profanity is a rhetorical device. Those words serve a purpose and carry a meaning and intention like any other word does. Personally, I feel that language would be sorely lacking without appropriate usage of the profane.

You'll miss a lot with that attitude

Originally posted by DreamsIn3D
You just show your lack of intelligence when you use profanity without at least finding an appropriate adjective to jar your opinions. Now having said that, its not the profanity that bothers me; its the opinion.

An opinion like that is worth listening to. You may have saved me some money because I've been looking through MMO's trying to find something to play until WarhammerOnline comes out. I played DAOC for a few years off and on and since Mythic has the RvR system and it's something I'm used to, I wanna give it a go.

I'll stay away from Vanguard until I hear more positives than negatives. Thanks for the heads up.

If every problem was fixed 100%, if the framerate got above 5, if the uninspired world and gameplay got changed to something interesting, if the lifeless world was thoughtfully populated, if the mindless quests were improved dramatically and all other issues fixed tomorrow....

It still wouldnt be worth playing.

Saying "its a beta" to try and mask the underlying but overwhelming issue that is the fact that the game is just dull, boring and nothing even slightly new, is not going to change my opinion Im sorry.

Sigil had the opportunity to release a next gen MMO, they settled for a EQ2/WoW clone minus the content and polish.

Very very disapointing.

Originally posted by crusher143
Well I hope iam getting a beta key tomorow, but Iam not really excited about this game anymore. Your description of Vanguard could be mine about EQ2, thats how I felt about EQ2, seems to be a clone of it oh well to sad but somehow we knew it would be a clone :/ but have to see myself.

Cant really say more cause I didnt play the game but from what Ive seen from screenshots and videos, graphic is really looking like EQ2 one I mean everywhere this brown and grey /ugly, I really hope Iam wrong but I doubt it.

I will check it out myself but anyways thanks for your info.

The one thing this game has over EQ2 is its zoneless.  If EQ2 was zoneless it would simply rock.  Oh well, maybe EQ3...

Originally posted by synergi
Funny thing... EQ2 is a far better game.. both grapically and stability. Vanguard runs worse on most pc's then EQ2 does and EQ2's graphics are much more detailed and demanding.

The character creation is a rip off of WoW? What as in you have races on the left, class on the right and a space to put your name?
Oh my god someone call the idea police. It's not much different from any other MMO for creation and there are only so many ways to do it. Do you have a revolutionary idea for it? No? Ok move along then.
The character creation has 10X the depth of WoW's. Hell everyone in WoW looks the same depending on their race/class/level. Go into a raid and I'd bet you couldn't tell who was who without their names above the head.

I'm not saying VG is perfect but comparing it to that is laughable.

As someone else stated Blizzard basically stole all their ideas from Games Workshop anyway, I'm half suprised they haven't got skaven in there as a playable race yet.

Originally posted by Deathstrike2

Originally posted by joemc3
So you beta tested a game it it had problems who knew........

If the problems were minor or if the release date were months away, I'd share in your sarcasm.  However, given that the game is a mere 3 weeks from retail, and the problems are significant, I think reality might be knocking. 

That is exactly the way I feel. A few weeks ago I was still on board with this game. Still thinking that it might eventually turn out to be something great, and capable of overlooking the abundant bugs, frequent server / chunk crashes, piss-poor performance and the fact that it isn't at all seamless.  I thought there was no way they would make the Q1 release, not at the pace of progress I had seen over the last few months anyway.  Now, knowing they plan to launch within about a month, and knowing how much progress Sigil had been making in a month, I am not sure the game will survive it's premature launch. 

Expecting people to go out and drop several hundred dollars on hardware just to get the game running is insane. Expecting people to overlook all the bugs and the lack of content once they are paying to play the game is equally nuts.  I still think this could be a good game, given another 6 months to a year of development time.. (or three months by a more professional studio)  It is certainly a gamble to launch the game anywhere near it's current state. I certainly won't be subscribing at launch, which is something I intended to do when I thought they had plenty of time get everything straightened out. 

PS.. MX, have you played Vanguard?  I know they have most people convinced that the game is seamless... but it isn't even close.  There are zones, called chunks. You have to load content when you hit a border and the game freezes for 10 - 20 seconds when you do.  You cant pull agro across a chunk line, you lose your mount when you cross, your torch goes off, pets disappear and the camera view is reset. If that isn't a seam, i don't know what is.  The game is, as the devs have started saying "visually seamless" if you can see something, you can go there... although it may be in a different zone from you.

PS.. MX, have you played Vanguard?  I know they have most people convinced that the game is seamless... but it isn't even close.  There are zones, called chunks. You have to load content when you hit a border and the game freezes for 10 - 20 seconds when you do.  You cant pull agro across a chunk line, you lose your mount when you cross, your torch goes off, pets disappear and the camera view is reset. If that isn't a seam, i don't know what is.  The game is, as the devs have started saying "visually seamless" if you can see something, you can go there... although it may be in a different zone from you.

Yeah.  It was one thing for Brad to constantly mention EQ1 throughout Vanguard's development.  Another thing entirely to go back to the same zone-bordering and other crap that should have stayed in EQ1 and never be repeated again.

I left EQ1 behind me around 2002.  That was about the time other choices in the MMO field started appearing.  Vanguard isn't the next gen, sad to say, it's a retro, like the return of Bell-Bottoms years ago.

I would take you to task over saying they've ripped off WOW far from it tbh..that game is a magpie itself.

I would say they've nicked EQ lock stock and barrel,but to me thats not a bad thing..in fact its rather good.

Originally posted by Razorback

If every problem was fixed 100%, if the framerate got above 5, if the uninspired world and gameplay got changed to something interesting, if the lifeless world was thoughtfully populated, if the mindless quests were improved dramatically and all other issues fixed tomorrow....

It still wouldnt be worth playing.

Saying "its a beta" to try and mask the underlying but overwhelming issue that is the fact that the game is just dull, boring and nothing even slightly new, is not going to change my opinion Im sorry.

Sigil had the opportunity to release a next gen MMO, they settled for a EQ2/WoW clone minus the content and polish.

Very very disapointing.

Originally posted by Salvatoris

 

That is exactly the way I feel. A few weeks ago I was still on board with this game. Still thinking that it might eventually turn out to be something great, and capable of overlooking the abundant bugs, frequent server / chunk crashes, piss-poor performance and the fact that it isn't at all seamless.  I thought there was no way they would make the Q1 release, not at the pace of progress I had seen over the last few months anyway.  Now, knowing they plan to launch within about a month, and knowing how much progress Sigil had been making in a month, I am not sure the game will survive it's premature launch. 

Expecting people to go out and drop several hundred dollars on hardware just to get the game running is insane. Expecting people to overlook all the bugs and the lack of content once they are paying to play the game is equally nuts.  I still think this could be a good game, given another 6 months to a year of development time.. (or three months by a more professional studio)  It is certainly a gamble to launch the game anywhere near it's current state. I certainly won't be subscribing at launch, which is something I intended to do when I thought they had plenty of time get everything straightened out. 

 

PS.. MX, have you played Vanguard?  I know they have most people convinced that the game is seamless... but it isn't even close.  There are zones, called chunks. You have to load content when you hit a border and the game freezes for 10 - 20 seconds when you do.  You cant pull agro across a chunk line, you lose your mount when you cross, your torch goes off, pets disappear and the camera view is reset. If that isn't a seam, i don't know what is.  The game is, as the devs have started saying "visually seamless" if you can see something, you can go there... although it may be in a different zone from you.

Originally posted by DrunkenPrey

The character creation is a rip off of WoW? What as in you have races on the left, class on the right and a space to put your name?
Oh my god someone call the idea police. It's not much different from any other MMO for creation and there are only so many ways to do it. Do you have a revolutionary idea for it? No? Ok move along then.
The character creation has 10X the depth of WoW's. Hell everyone in WoW looks the same depending on their race/class/level. Go into a raid and I'd bet you couldn't tell who was who without their names above the head.

I'm not saying VG is perfect but comparing it to that is laughable.

As someone else stated Blizzard basically stole all their ideas from Games Workshop anyway, I'm half suprised they haven't got skaven in there as a playable race yet.

Pretty much. It is the exact same idea, same model, same execution. It is completely uninspired without even the pretension of originality. Besides, there are alternatives out there: Turbine's games have their own, City of Heroes has the best, Eve's is wonderfully original, and even Guild Wars' has a decent one. All of them did their own thing, Vanguard didn't. The problem is that even once you play with all the sliders, you still have nothing but a corpse that walks like there is a stick up his ass. The differences between any two characters is still completely negligible... The characters may as well look identical.

And yes, I do happen to have a revolutionary idea for CC.

My main gripe with MMOs is that despite the fact that you're entering the game as an adult individual residing in a world that presumably has history, you only get to pick the classic Race/Class/Stat/Appearance combos. My idea is based on the idea that your character wasn't born yesterday, and actually HAS a personal background within the games lore.

First, you start with your game world (a typical fantasy world for instance) and your races. The first step is to choose a generic human male, the second step would be to choose a homeland/nationality/sub-race from the lore which effects your appearance choices (approximately the difference between a Norseman, an African, or Arab) and racial abilities / traits, next you would select  your place in society  which would further develop your proficiency in specific skills (an urban noble would have different skill/stat templates then someone who lived a harder life, things like magical talent, martial skill, and trade skills could come into play here), then you start picking out educational specialization to the tune of building a skill based class (Eve Online has something similar with their CC, but it is somewhat restrictive), and finally you tweak your actual avatar based on your sub-race and background (LotRO has something similar where a Gondorian has different appearance choices then a Man of Dale). I would also like to see some kind of system where your body type is actually affected based on the relative balance of your stats. Higher strength with less agility would result in a bulky avatar, higher agility then strength would result in a lithe athletic avatar, low strength & agility with more intellect would result in a frailer avatar, etc, etc... It would still be up to the player to tweak, but with a weighted range of selection. Another thing I'd like to see is a basic choice of affiliation with in-game groups. A "rogue” could just as easily work for the underworld as law enforcement or mercenaries. Choosing a group would give you a different start location and a quest that introduces you to the basics of the game quest giving contacts within your organization, geared to that style of play.

That would be a helluva way to start playing an MMO. That is the kind of imaginative idea that sets you apart from the Elf Warrior getting to whack 8 cats for the same guy that every other nobody does. It could be done, too, from a technical stand point.

I never defended Blizzard or endorsed WoW you schmuck, and it was me that said Games Workshop sued Blizzard for Starcraft.

Originally posted by Hu1ven
How 'bout I kill you? If you cannot express yourself over the Internet without using profanity, you might as well not even be expressing yourself at all. People like you make me cringe. I'm not even going to ignore the immaturity of that post and attempt to focus on the point you're trying to make, you don't get any chances.

And what, pray tell, makes you think that I give two shits about what some pompous, jacked up nobody thinks about how I express myself online? Regardless of how you feel about what I wrote, bowing to your idiotic ideas of what is and isn't acceptable does not make me any more or less mature or intelligent. Frankly, the fact that you are unwilling to actually consider the points I made, that have since been echoed by several others, only speaks to demonstrate your own arrogance and ignorance.

You think I want a chance from you? That I should so humbly beg your opinion that you would not deign to share?

Suck it.

How's that for immature, asshole?

Oh my, have I been scarred.

Hint for the DimWitted: That was sarcasm.