Trending Games | Wizard101 | Crowfall | Skyforge | Pirate101

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,949,574 Users Online:0
Games:778  Posts:6,370,969
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online AD2460 ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Ninja Anime Pirates Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord 2 Archlord X Armored Warfare Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Bionic Marine Command Online Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blackguards 2 Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crowfall Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Cyberpunk 2077 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark Souls 2 Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deep Down Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Fin Soup Dragon Heart Online Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dying Light Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout 4 Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken Uprising Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GRAV GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods Rush Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Hand of Fate Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Atlan Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online Kill Strain King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings Era Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Redemption LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Grimrock 2 Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lords of the Fallen 2 Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance Mass Effect 4 MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms Might & Magic X: Legacy MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Hunter 4: Ultimate Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mythborne Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Nova Genesis Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Oort Online Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Overwatch Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pillars of Eternity Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints Pokémon X and Y PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Prodigy Project Blackout Project Gorgon Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rail Nation Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of Sierra Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Rebel Galaxy Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowgate Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian South Park: The Stick of Truth Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Conflict Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Starbound Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Stormthrone Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Coast Legends Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online TUG Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Terraria Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Banner Saga 2 The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Epic Might The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Torment: Tides of Numenera Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Triad Wars Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Warflare Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warriors World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

News & Features Discussion  » General: Casual Play: Solo Play Build Communities

4 Pages 1 2 3 4 » Search
75 posts found
  Stradden

Managing Editor

Joined: 7/08/05
Posts: 6729

 
OP  12/21/06 2:21:51 PM#1

Staff Writer Steve Wilson returns this week with his Casual Play column. This time around, Steve discusses the ways in which solo play can actually help to build an MMORPG community.

It may seem contrary, but solo content really does more to encourage the building of long-term communities than forced grouping.

Traditionally it's been held that solo content hurts MOGs which were meant to be played as group efforts. Many games enforce this philosophy by making the environment more difficult to defeat than a single player can handle. In the teens to twenties players began to discover that monsters began attacking in packs or are tougher than they can handle by a lone player. In order to continue playing, the player is forced to seek out a group to adventure with. On the surface this would seem to be pretty straightforward design, players have to group, which forces them to meet other players, which leads to friendships. These forced friendships potentially increase subscription times, since most studies have shown that players will continue long after the game is no longer fun if they have friends that they enjoy hanging out with. It's assumed that grouping is obviously a good thing when in fact it's having friends that lengthen subscription times.

Read the column here.

Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com

  JYCowboy

Novice Member

Joined: 1/11/05
Posts: 661

SWG: Jess Youngstar(CIA)-AhaziDCUO: Blue Horizon(CIA)STO: John West(USS Texas)NCC-91836

12/21/06 2:29:05 PM#2
Link not working for me.  Sounds like an intereting topic.
  Vampires

Novice Member

Joined: 1/20/06
Posts: 75

12/21/06 2:35:58 PM#3
Solo play can be very good i think, makes you look at your toon in a different light.

  Reklaw

Elite Member

Joined: 1/07/06
Posts: 6204

The adult I am takes care of most things real life. However my inner-child is a GAMER!!

12/21/06 2:39:34 PM#4

Originally posted by JYCowboy
Link not working for me.  Sounds like an intereting topic.
same here, link not working being redirected to frontpage(home of mmorpg)
  _Shadowmage

Novice Member

Joined: 7/13/05
Posts: 1461

12/21/06 2:40:35 PM#5

Solo content as the author pointed out means I can
- jump in and go exploring just to fill out the grey areas on my map
- or go finish a few outstanding quests
- or go find some crafting material

However if you dont want groups blowing through the game so fast without challenge you need some sort of scaling encounter system so groups are still challenged.

  damian7

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/20/06
Posts: 4514

why must i be nice to people that have no clue, are lying, or are just stupid?

12/21/06 2:56:40 PM#6
reminds me of this video i watched the other day.  basically, it was about advertising/marketing companies and one of the recent trends/philosophies is, essentially, 'give the customer/consumer what they want".

9 years is a long time for online computer games to get the clue.

could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?

  Jovar

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/02
Posts: 1

12/21/06 2:57:07 PM#7
  ShiloFields

Novice Member

Joined: 5/07/06
Posts: 253

12/21/06 3:03:12 PM#8

Personally, I think MMOs need interdepency that goes beyond grouping for combat.  SWG's original design was wonderful in this regard.  Crafters providing, weapons, weapons, houses, and tools to gather resources for different types of crafters;, entertainers healing mind wounds and battle fatigue, doctors providing buffs and healing wounds and diseases, combat players providing looted crafting components, skill enhancing loot, etc.  Bioengineers' creating pets, creature handlers training them.  The interdepency was enhanced, and to some extent made possible by, by the fact that you only were given on character per server, absent buying a second box.

I guess I don't understand why you need more than more character per server.  It really seems odd to me that games allow this, although I am sure most of you will disagree with me.

  JK-Kanosi

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/15/06
Posts: 1359

12/21/06 3:04:13 PM#9

I've kept my mouth shut on this subject editorial after editorial, but I can't do it anymore. This website is obviously ran by a bunch of casual players and will always support the point of view of solo players. Don't get me wrong, I am a casual player to, in the sense that I don't play but 20 hours a week, but I used to play a lot more back when DAoC was still new and SWG was still good. But I have a family of my own, married w/ a son of my own in school now. But I can still afford the time to meet people and form groups. The writer of this article is using extremes to persuade the readers to his point of view. This is utter bullshit, because in DAoC when I first started playing and even now, including SWG as well, before the NGE, 9 times out of 10 people weren't idiots that you grouped with and everyone was mature and had a good time. We all would chat and grind at the same time having fun hours upon hours. You keep using the extreme that you end up in bad groups, well how about stop playing WoW and play a more mature game. Then you won't get into bad groups like that anymore. Pick up groups generally suck in WoW and WoW is what most casual players know. WoW is also a poor excuse for a multiplayer game, because the quest content can be completed solo and has no benefit to grouping and is also too easy to do in groups. And no it is not like that in every game. Most games I have played (13 total, not counting F2P) have the ability to choose the challenge you will face instead of being spoonfed content in the form of stupid kill and fed ex quests. You may be able to solo white mobs easily, but in a group you fight the red and purple ones, because they are challenging.

People like you are pushing me to the point to where I say the MMORPG market would have been better off for the players if casual solo players never started playing. That's right, because you keep pushing this view in our face, we are beginning to think that the MMORPG world would be a better place without you. Who needs some lame kill quests or fed ex quests when you can create content of your own through RPing. Yes, these are RPG's, so don't even try to argue the point. Just put out a crap ton of monsters out there, give them some good AI, and keep quests to a minimum. If you're going to do a quest, it should be epic. It should be a quest that spans several levels or the whole game and when you complete it, you are satisfied, because the quest took intelligence and patience to beat. Single player games have these sort of quests, so do DAoC. Hell even SWG had a back ground quest built into the lore. Rebels and Imperials are at war with each other and Neutrals and the Criminal faction are caught in-between. Try to stay alive and become the dominant faction. That in itself is epic in nature and doesn't need a bunch of kill quests.

If a person can't keep themselves entertained in a virtual world, we really don't need that person in it. We need people who are dedicated to the game, who have imaginations, who have some social skills and have a good personality. We don't need people who don't have the time to form a group, who want developers to waste their time creating kill and fed ex quests, because they can't create a reason of their own to play, and people who are anti-social, or are borish.

The MMORPG community was fine before WoW came along. We may have been small, but we socialized, and were dedicated to the game and we didn't need borish un-epic quests. We enjoyed being with each other and grouping and we depended on each other a lot. Those were the good ol' days and I've been pushed too far be people like you to hold my tongue any longer. The Devs may want your money, but the rest of the MMORPG community will never accept you as one of us and you will always be ostracized by people who are committed to someone other than themselves in game.

MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW

Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.

  JK-Kanosi

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/15/06
Posts: 1359

12/21/06 3:08:11 PM#10

Originally posted by ShiloFields

Personally, I think MMOs need interdepency that goes beyond grouping for combat.  SWG's original design was wonderful in this regard.  Crafters providing, weapons, weapons, houses, and tools to gather resources for different types of crafters;, entertainers healing mind wounds and battle fatigue, doctors providing buffs and healing wounds and diseases, combat players providing looted crafting components, skill enhancing loot, etc.  Bioengineers' creating pets, creature handlers training them.  The interdepency was enhanced, and to some extent made possible by, by the fact that you only were given on character per server, absent buying a second box.

I guess I don't understand why you need more than more character per server.  It really seems odd to me that games allow this, although I am sure most of you will disagree with me.


Hey, I played SWG too. I agree, one player per server is enough...for a skill based game where you can drop your professions and take on a different set anytime you want. But most game have a class system and each class is different and is interesting in their own way. That is why I create multiple characters per account. But on SWG, I was perfectly fine with one character and I prefer it that way. I prefer every game to be like that, but those games must have a skill based system.

MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW

Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.

  the420kid

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/19/05
Posts: 436

12/21/06 3:08:47 PM#11

I am that lone wolf / solo player that you are referring to.

That doesnt mean I dont enjoy social interaction, but I much rather fight and explore solo.  I do not like to rely on other people to progress my character.  This is especialy the case with real life friends playing the same game as me.  My frustrations comes from being held back by someone else who I am relying on while I am playing my character flawlessly my progression at that point is out of my control, I can not go further until this other person gets there job right ect.  My frustrations with this issue can stem into angry msgs to the other players which could result in losing r/l friends.  Therfore I much rather play solo while talking with my friends and keeping my irl friends as they are a great bunch of guys they just happen to be newbs lol.

Ive played and leftr games with forced grouping one of my favorites was ffxi but beyond level 60 I could spend an entire day trying to get a party and I ended up leaving the game same as world of warcraft after I was high warlord and full tier 2 I just couldnt continue to raid with my guild and be held back.

Id prefer all games have solo and team options perhaps scalable instances wheres mobs scale to number of ppl inside.

  JK-Kanosi

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/15/06
Posts: 1359

12/21/06 3:17:06 PM#12

Originally posted by the420kid

I am that lone wolf / solo player that you are referring to.

That doesnt mean I dont enjoy social interaction, but I much rather fight and explore solo.  I do not like to rely on other people to progress my character.  This is especialy the case with real life friends playing the same game as me.  My frustrations comes from being held back by someone else who I am relying on while I am playing my character flawlessly my progression at that point is out of my control, I can not go further until this other person gets there job right ect.  My frustrations with this issue can stem into angry msgs to the other players which could result in losing r/l friends.  Therfore I much rather play solo while talking with my friends and keeping my irl friends as they are a great bunch of guys they just happen to be newbs lol.

Ive played and leftr games with forced grouping one of my favorites was ffxi but beyond level 60 I could spend an entire day trying to get a party and I ended up leaving the game same as world of warcraft after I was high warlord and full tier 2 I just couldnt continue to raid with my guild and be held back.

Id prefer all games have solo and team options perhaps scalable instances wheres mobs scale to number of ppl inside.


I keep using DAoC and SWG as an example, but they are both really good examples for just about every argument. In DAoC you could solo to 50 if you wanted, but it would be a lot faster to group to 50. This is the way it should be. Group players shouldn't necessarily get better gear for grouping, the crafters should make the gear anyways. Solo players could play the way they like, but people who would rather group would actually group, instead of soloing. There are groupers in WoW that will not group, because the pace is much slower than if you solo. This is the type of game mechanics that piss me off. Soloers in general don;t, unless the gameplay was designed around the soloer. WoW is an example of gameplay designed around the soloer (except for endgame) while DAoC was designed to reward people for grouping. But in DAoC the best gear was crafter made, not dropped off of raid bosses.

MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW

Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.

  Druidblue

Novice Member

Joined: 8/11/05
Posts: 28

National Novel Writing Month 2008 Winner: First Death

12/21/06 3:21:56 PM#13

Originally posted by ShiloFields

Personally, I think MMOs need interdepency that goes beyond grouping for combat.  SWG's original design was wonderful in this regard.  Crafters providing, weapons, weapons, houses, and tools to gather resources for different types of crafters;, entertainers healing mind wounds and battle fatigue, doctors providing buffs and healing wounds and diseases, combat players providing looted crafting components, skill enhancing loot, etc.  Bioengineers' creating pets, creature handlers training them.  The interdepency was enhanced, and to some extent made possible by, by the fact that you only were given on character per server, absent buying a second box.

I guess I don't understand why you need more than more character per server.  It really seems odd to me that games allow this, although I am sure most of you will disagree with me.


I can comment on that- the way I play an MMGS is TONS of characters, over and over and over through the low levels to mids.  Despite playing all of the MMGS releases in the past for plenty of time to max my levels (per other player's timeframes) I've never reached a max level in any game, including WoW (which most think you can max level in a matter of what, days or weeks?)  I'm simply not wired that way, to play one character constantly... I get quite finicky about wishing I was playing my other characters, as it were.  If I'm on my warrior, I will start wishing I was on my druid.  If I was on my mage, I wish I was on my rogue. Etc.

In the original EQ, by the time I left, I had taken 62 characters to level 20, but my highest character was only 35 or so.   I also have a list of character archetypes with corresponding names that I must play in any new MMGS that arrives.  If for some odd reason I pick a server where one of my names is taken, I literally must switch servers or I cannot play that character class.

As to the solo aspect, I'm very interested in this topic.  As a developer I recognize good design and any MMGS that forces a player into grouping is simply designed wrong.  You should never force the player into playing in a style that is against their own.  It drives me crazy being thrown into a group of people who think that it's faster to type "thx" than it is to type "Thanks!".   The "must go, must get more loot, must get more XP" mindset is also foreign to me.  I've never -NEVER- experienced a level treadmill, simply because in truth it IS a mindset.  If you are aware of what you are doing in regards to gaining the next level on a conscious level, it is YOUR mindset that is creating that feeling.  Almost every single time I level in a game, I am totally unaware I was about to level.

Instead, I do whatever floats my fancy at the time- including chasing a virtual duck around in circles for an hour yelling "Moo!"  Hey, if I'm having fun doing it... that, indeed, is the point of the game.

  Uplinkpro

Novice Member

Joined: 2/10/06
Posts: 1

To get you must give~ Me

12/21/06 3:28:18 PM#14

Originally posted by Stradden

Staff Writer Steve Wilson returns this week with his Casual Play column. This time around, Steve discusses the ways in which solo play can actually help to build an MMORPG community.

It may seem contrary, but solo content really does more to encourage the building of long-term communities than forced grouping.

Traditionally it's been held that solo content hurts MOGs which were meant to be played as group efforts. Many games enforce this philosophy by making the environment more difficult to defeat than a single player can handle. In the teens to twenties players began to discover that monsters began attacking in packs or are tougher than they can handle by a lone player. In order to continue playing, the player is forced to seek out a group to adventure with. On the surface this would seem to be pretty straightforward design, players have to group, which forces them to meet other players, which leads to friendships. These forced friendships potentially increase subscription times, since most studies have shown that players will continue long after the game is no longer fun if they have friends that they enjoy hanging out with. It's assumed that grouping is obviously a good thing when in fact it's having friends that lengthen subscription times.

Read the column here.


I totaly agree as a Non casual gamer (70+ hours a week). I HATE guilds with a passion you never can find a group as good as yourself or that even think like you so your left holding a bunch of noobs hands while trying to raid. IMO no game should make a boss or instance or raid for more than 8 players. I dont play games to meet freinds i play games to get aways from stress at work and to beat them as well as see all of there content. But when you havta stress to get into a decent guild thats just not fun and ends the reason to keep playing that game.
uplink Xfire Miniprofile
  mikesterbrau

Novice Member

Joined: 10/31/06
Posts: 25

12/21/06 3:33:29 PM#15

   Quite simply the economics of game development and econmic pressures mean that in most cases developers are going to have to cater to both sides of this argument.  Personally I like to solo but on the other hand I run a guild and group a lot.  I think catering to solo play allows the player the chance to get the feel of the game learn the mechanics and ultimately contribute to a group in a more meaningfull and efficient which will benefit all IMO.   Also I am sure we have all had friends that have either been reluctant to play MMORPG's or had a bad experience with them due to Pick Up Groups full of impatient, rude, or border line moronic members or guild spam from the second you log in and blind guild or group invites.   I think anyone that digs their heals in to firmly with regard is going to end up in the embrace of dissapointment and lingering resentment.   I am also sure many solo players with myself included have been confronted by the argument why do you play an MMORPG if you don't want to ... (fill in the blank PVP, Group, Join a guild etc.) to which I can only think why are they so concerned about my individual play choice.   Food for thought but keep the pepto handy....

 

Founder of Skara Brae Guild
Sysop Bard's Tavern BBS 1987-2002
Co-Leader Skara Brae guild
Everquest 2 chapter.
Guild Hub site: Http://www.bardstavern.net

  wilcoxon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/06
Posts: 79

12/21/06 3:43:15 PM#16


Originally posted by JK-Kanosi
I've kept my mouth shut on this subject editorial after editorial, but I can't do it anymore. This website is obviously ran by a bunch of casual players and will always support the point of view of solo players.

Face it. After the advent of WoW, any game that does not support the casual player (usually involving soloable content) will be a "niche" game (even if that niche is the size of the EQ player-base at its height). Very few developers (probably none of the large ones) will produce games that will not have the potential to achieve a WoW level of success.


Don't get me wrong, I am a casual player to, in the sense that I don't play but 20 hours a week, but I used to play a lot more back when DAoC was still new and SWG was still good. But I have a family of my own, married w/ a son of my own in school now. But I can still afford the time to meet people and form groups.

Sorry, 20 hours per week puts you at the top (or out) of what most people consider casual. There are lots of people that play WoW or other games for a max of 2 hours per day and skip days (putting them at 10 hours (or less) per week).


The writer of this article is using extremes to persuade the readers to his point of view. This is utter bullshit, because in DAoC when I first started playing and even now, including SWG as well, before the NGE, 9 times out of 10 people weren't idiots that you grouped with and everyone was mature and had a good time. We all would chat and grind at the same time having fun hours upon hours. You keep using the extreme that you end up in bad groups, well how about stop playing WoW and play a more mature game. Then you won't get into bad groups like that anymore. Pick up groups generally suck in WoW and WoW is what most casual players know.

I've played many games and abhor pick-up groups in *EVERY* one of them (including DAoC) due to many bad experiences.


WoW is also a poor excuse for a multiplayer game, because the quest content can be completed solo and has no benefit to grouping and is also too easy to do in groups. And no it is not like that in every game. Most games I have played (13 total, not counting F2P) have the ability to choose the challenge you will face instead of being spoonfed content in the form of stupid kill and fed ex quests. You may be able to solo white mobs easily, but in a group you fight the red and purple ones, because they are challenging.

WoW is a poorly designed MMO in some regards (getting an xp *penalty* when grouping).

The best example I can point to is City of Heroes/Villains - each mission scales depending on the group/person doing it plus players can choose to make their missions harder. If you always play with an uber group, just always do "insane" missions as a group.


People like you are pushing me to the point to where I say the MMORPG market would have been better off for the players if casual solo players never started playing. That's right, because you keep pushing this view in our face, we are beginning to think that the MMORPG world would be a better place without you.

Many of us have turned into casual players. I played games alot and joined a raiding guild in EQ but have had no desire to invest that amount of effort into games since. I usually end up soloing anymore because I hate pick-up groups and not enough of my friends play the same games anymore (and I haven't made many friends online in either EVE or City of (admittedly I haven't really tried in CoH/CoV)).


Who needs some lame kill quests or fed ex quests when you can create content of your own through RPing. Yes, these are RPG's, so don't even try to argue the point. Just put out a crap ton of monsters out there, give them some good AI, and keep quests to a minimum. If you're going to do a quest, it should be epic. It should be a quest that spans several levels or the whole game and when you complete it, you are satisfied, because the quest took intelligence and patience to beat. Single player games have these sort of quests, so do DAoC.

Where's the game in that? Do you think any casual players (or even many non-casual players) would enjoy a game like you describe ("ok - here's the world and a bunch of mobs - go have fun with no structured content").


We need people who are dedicated to the game, who have imaginations, who have some social skills and have a good personality. We don't need people who don't have the time to form a group, who want developers to waste their time creating kill and fed ex quests, because they can't create a reason of their own to play, and people who are anti-social, or are borish. The MMORPG community was fine before WoW came along. We may have been small, but we socialized, and were dedicated to the game and we didn't need borish un-epic quests. We enjoyed being with each other and grouping and we depended on each other a lot. Those were the good ol' days and I've been pushed too far be people like you to hold my tongue any longer. The Devs may want your money, but the rest of the MMORPG community will never accept you as one of us and you will always be ostracized by people who are committed to someone other than themselves in game.

I could see your point up until this section. I completely disagree with you. I've played many games (starting with DAoC at release) and think every single statement you just made is flat-out wrong. Many of the players I encountered prior to WoW had no imagination, no social skills, and no personality (or, at least, were people I would never want to associate with). [b]Many[/p] players would like to play at least sometimes when they don't have time to get a group (every game where I've tried to get pick-up groups going often took an hour to get the group sometimes just to have it fall apart before anything started). The MMORPG community was not fine before WoW - it had already fragmented into casual, enforced-grouping, and PvP-only camps.

Active: CoH/CoV, Warhammer (beta,live)
Retired: Anarchy Online, Archlord (beta), Auto Assault (beta), Dark Age of Camelot, D&D Online (alpha,beta,&live), Dungeon Runners, Everquest, EVE, Guild Wars, Lord of the Rings (beta), Vanguard (beta), World of Warcraft
Looking forward to: Fallen Earth

  wilcoxon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/06
Posts: 79

12/21/06 3:52:14 PM#17


Originally posted by JK-Kanosi
I keep using DAoC and SWG as an example, but they are both really good examples for just about every argument. In DAoC you could solo to 50 if you wanted, but it would be a lot faster to group to 50. This is the way it should be. Group players shouldn't necessarily get better gear for grouping, the crafters should make the gear anyways. Solo players could play the way they like, but people who would rather group would actually group, instead of soloing. There are groupers in WoW that will not group, because the pace is much slower than if you solo. This is the type of game mechanics that piss me off. Soloers in general don;t, unless the gameplay was designed around the soloer. WoW is an example of gameplay designed around the soloer (except for endgame) while DAoC was designed to reward people for grouping. But in DAoC the best gear was crafter made, not dropped off of raid bosses.

I guess I'll have to keep disagreeing with you. Why should it be faster to group to 50? Grouping and soloing should be equally viable playstyles - neither should be penalized.

You could solo to 50 in DAoC but it was painful at higher levels and the crafting system in DAoC required a guild (or literally years to master). I was #3 weapon crafter on my server for quite a while until I hit the levels where it literally took a small guild to fund crafting at a reasonable pace (one of the reasons I left DAoC). I was dumping nearly all my my money into crafting and could not afford to advance much at all (not to mention supply runs into PvP areas).

I will agree with you that WoW's penalizing of grouping is bad (see my first comment).

Active: CoH/CoV, Warhammer (beta,live)
Retired: Anarchy Online, Archlord (beta), Auto Assault (beta), Dark Age of Camelot, D&D Online (alpha,beta,&live), Dungeon Runners, Everquest, EVE, Guild Wars, Lord of the Rings (beta), Vanguard (beta), World of Warcraft
Looking forward to: Fallen Earth

  JK-Kanosi

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/15/06
Posts: 1359

12/21/06 4:06:29 PM#18

Originally posted by wilcoxon


Originally posted by JK-Kanosi
I've kept my mouth shut on this subject editorial after editorial, but I can't do it anymore. This website is obviously ran by a bunch of casual players and will always support the point of view of solo players.

Face it. After the advent of WoW, any game that does not support the casual player (usually involving soloable content) will be a "niche" game (even if that niche is the size of the EQ player-base at its height). Very few developers (probably none of the large ones) will produce games that will not have the potential to achieve a WoW level of success.


Don't get me wrong, I am a casual player to, in the sense that I don't play but 20 hours a week, but I used to play a lot more back when DAoC was still new and SWG was still good. But I have a family of my own, married w/ a son of my own in school now. But I can still afford the time to meet people and form groups.

Sorry, 20 hours per week puts you at the top (or out) of what most people consider casual. There are lots of people that play WoW or other games for a max of 2 hours per day and skip days (putting them at 10 hours (or less) per week).


The writer of this article is using extremes to persuade the readers to his point of view. This is utter bullshit, because in DAoC when I first started playing and even now, including SWG as well, before the NGE, 9 times out of 10 people weren't idiots that you grouped with and everyone was mature and had a good time. We all would chat and grind at the same time having fun hours upon hours. You keep using the extreme that you end up in bad groups, well how about stop playing WoW and play a more mature game. Then you won't get into bad groups like that anymore. Pick up groups generally suck in WoW and WoW is what most casual players know.

I've played many games and abhor pick-up groups in *EVERY* one of them (including DAoC) due to many bad experiences.


WoW is also a poor excuse for a multiplayer game, because the quest content can be completed solo and has no benefit to grouping and is also too easy to do in groups. And no it is not like that in every game. Most games I have played (13 total, not counting F2P) have the ability to choose the challenge you will face instead of being spoonfed content in the form of stupid kill and fed ex quests. You may be able to solo white mobs easily, but in a group you fight the red and purple ones, because they are challenging.

WoW is a poorly designed MMO in some regards (getting an xp *penalty* when grouping).

The best example I can point to is City of Heroes/Villains - each mission scales depending on the group/person doing it plus players can choose to make their missions harder. If you always play with an uber group, just always do "insane" missions as a group.


People like you are pushing me to the point to where I say the MMORPG market would have been better off for the players if casual solo players never started playing. That's right, because you keep pushing this view in our face, we are beginning to think that the MMORPG world would be a better place without you.

Many of us have turned into casual players. I played games alot and joined a raiding guild in EQ but have had no desire to invest that amount of effort into games since. I usually end up soloing anymore because I hate pick-up groups and not enough of my friends play the same games anymore (and I haven't made many friends online in either EVE or City of (admittedly I haven't really tried in CoH/CoV)).


Who needs some lame kill quests or fed ex quests when you can create content of your own through RPing. Yes, these are RPG's, so don't even try to argue the point. Just put out a crap ton of monsters out there, give them some good AI, and keep quests to a minimum. If you're going to do a quest, it should be epic. It should be a quest that spans several levels or the whole game and when you complete it, you are satisfied, because the quest took intelligence and patience to beat. Single player games have these sort of quests, so do DAoC.

Where's the game in that? Do you think any casual players (or even many non-casual players) would enjoy a game like you describe ("ok - here's the world and a bunch of mobs - go have fun with no structured content").


We need people who are dedicated to the game, who have imaginations, who have some social skills and have a good personality. We don't need people who don't have the time to form a group, who want developers to waste their time creating kill and fed ex quests, because they can't create a reason of their own to play, and people who are anti-social, or are borish. The MMORPG community was fine before WoW came along. We may have been small, but we socialized, and were dedicated to the game and we didn't need borish un-epic quests. We enjoyed being with each other and grouping and we depended on each other a lot. Those were the good ol' days and I've been pushed too far be people like you to hold my tongue any longer. The Devs may want your money, but the rest of the MMORPG community will never accept you as one of us and you will always be ostracized by people who are committed to someone other than themselves in game.

I could see your point up until this section. I completely disagree with you. I've played many games (starting with DAoC at release) and think every single statement you just made is flat-out wrong. Many of the players I encountered prior to WoW had no imagination, no social skills, and no personality (or, at least, were people I would never want to associate with). [b]Many[/p] players would like to play at least sometimes when they don't have time to get a group (every game where I've tried to get pick-up groups going often took an hour to get the group sometimes just to have it fall apart before anything started). The MMORPG community was not fine before WoW - it had already fragmented into casual, enforced-grouping, and PvP-only camps.


I just wanted to reply and thank you for your maturity and that I did read the reply that took some meaningful effort to put together. Usually, I do not get that angry and my posts are not that harsh. Even reading back on this one, I can't believe I actually said some of that stuff. It doesn't mean I don't believe it or don't think it, I just usually am a civil type of person.

I guess we all had different but valid experiences in the old games that lead us to where we are now. I obviously had a blast in the old games, whereas there were probably many things that got on your nerves. I guess it is time for people like me to face it and acknowledge that are days are over. I guess people like me should try our best to keep the old games running or go play DnD pnp games (not that I know how).

Anyways, thanks for not losing your cool.

MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW

Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.

  damian7

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/20/06
Posts: 4514

why must i be nice to people that have no clue, are lying, or are just stupid?

12/21/06 4:18:21 PM#19

Originally posted by JK-Kanosi

If a person can't keep themselves entertained in a virtual world, we really don't need that person in it. We need people who are dedicated to the game, who have imaginations, who have some social skills and have a good personality. We don't need people who don't have the time to form a group, who want developers to waste their time creating kill and fed ex quests, because they can't create a reason of their own to play, and people who are anti-social, or are borish.

The MMORPG community was fine before WoW came along. We may have been small, but we socialized, and were dedicated to the game and we didn't need borish un-epic quests. We enjoyed being with each other and grouping and we depended on each other a lot. Those were the good ol' days and I've been pushed too far be people like you to hold my tongue any longer. The Devs may want your money, but the rest of the MMORPG community will never accept you as one of us and you will always be ostracized by people who are committed to someone other than themselves in game.



players who are dedicated to a game?  how about game developers who are dedicated to their playerbase?  i think we need that a tad more since it doesn't seem to exist.

i would hope that game devs can do more than create "kill and fed ex" quests. if not, maybe we need new devs? 

why blame the player if it's the game developer that is lacking?  if players can come up with XYZ *rp* content on their own, why can't the devs? 



i sorta agree with what you're saying, EXCEPT the onus should be on the developers of the games, not the players.  there SHOULD be online, persistent world games, that myself and my wife can log into, and play.  play without having to group with a bunch of others.  play without having to schedule a time to get into the GOOD content.  actually, UO is sort of the game you can still do that in, it just has horrid graphics.  when the graphics' overhaul hits, i might try to get the wife playing it, or perhaps one of the games coming out shortly.

but i do agree, a sandbox is a great way to play a game.  but, if you're going to have that, then these game devs who are just watching folks play, NEED to throw in some live events, on a constant basis.  maybe have a dev per world/shard/server.  if it's a single server game; then, you have all those paid employees who can make events all over that server.


let's take Eve online as an example of a 'mature' community.  compared to wow's community, honestly, having played both games for a year+ (along with others) and having been in numerous guilds/corps on various toons, having joined in on the official forums for both...  i see VERY little difference in the communities.  i would go so far as to say that it's the same people playing both games.  maybe not 100%, but there is a lot of cross-over.  just like with COx, swg, uo, and everything else.

think long and hard (everyone) about all the mmo/mmorpg's you've played.  have you ONLY played one?  if not, then you're supporting my statement that it's the same folks playing all these different games.


i've been in dungeons/fighting bosses where it's like "ok, now X class, you get ready with your Z attack, J class, you get ready to to LMO, blah blah blah".  BORING. 


what's the answer?   well, huge groups of people to kill one big bad isn't an answer in my book.  huge numbers of people to kill that one big bad usually means that what - 5% of the people involved get something for their troubles?  if the game is item-centric, that just sucks.  if the game is not item-centric, then hey, as long as i'm having fun... but how many games are like that?   lots of people slam wow for being item centric, but how many games are NOT that way?  COx is an example.  other games may have any/every-one able to craft the uber items, but it's still heavily item-centric.  i think pre-cu swg and uo are examples where skills and items mesh well together.

these online games HAVE catered to huge guilds since everquest.  uo didn't.  uo allowed single/duos to accomplish tons in it, if not all.

but, just like making levels (instead of skills), all these other games followed everquest's horrid changes to what UO had shown the public.

so we're going on a decade of games, where the vast majority of the games (persistent world games) have NOT catered to the single-small group playerbase, nor to the players that play for limited amounts of time a week. 

for the record, there are a LOT of anti-socials and socially-retarded types in a lot of guilds online.  being part of a huge group doesn't mean it's going to be elite.

think for a bit about your job.  how many people employed by your company, or that you have to interact with on a daily basis --- do YOU consider to be total idiots?

an online organization, where everyone can still hide behind the anonymity of the internet... this group will have a far greater chance of being filled with people that YOU (saying this to most everyone) will consider stupid, childish, or just people you DON'T want to associate with.


so, maybe it's time the game devs start REALLY earning their money, and GIVE the customers what they want.

COx scales up/down the encounters based upon 1 - difficulty the individual chooses and 2 - group size.  this is in addition to the non-instanced content.


just something to think about.  i mean, how much play-testing/beta-testing do the NON-PAID customers (who pay to play the games) do for the employees of the company?  we, the paying public, are already doing a TON of the work for the employees of the company, and more often than not, they just thumb their noses at the people 1-testing their patches and 2-paying their salaries.



could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?

  JK-Kanosi

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/15/06
Posts: 1359

12/21/06 4:19:21 PM#20

Originally posted by wilcoxon


Originally posted by JK-Kanosi
I keep using DAoC and SWG as an example, but they are both really good examples for just about every argument. In DAoC you could solo to 50 if you wanted, but it would be a lot faster to group to 50. This is the way it should be. Group players shouldn't necessarily get better gear for grouping, the crafters should make the gear anyways. Solo players could play the way they like, but people who would rather group would actually group, instead of soloing. There are groupers in WoW that will not group, because the pace is much slower than if you solo. This is the type of game mechanics that piss me off. Soloers in general don;t, unless the gameplay was designed around the soloer. WoW is an example of gameplay designed around the soloer (except for endgame) while DAoC was designed to reward people for grouping. But in DAoC the best gear was crafter made, not dropped off of raid bosses.

I guess I'll have to keep disagreeing with you. Why should it be faster to group to 50? Grouping and soloing should be equally viable playstyles - neither should be penalized.

You could solo to 50 in DAoC but it was painful at higher levels and the crafting system in DAoC required a guild (or literally years to master). I was #3 weapon crafter on my server for quite a while until I hit the levels where it literally took a small guild to fund crafting at a reasonable pace (one of the reasons I left DAoC). I was dumping nearly all my my money into crafting and could not afford to advance much at all (not to mention supply runs into PvP areas).

I will agree with you that WoW's penalizing of grouping is bad (see my first comment).


I am willing to debate with you, since it seems like you have a good head on your shoulders and won't get all emotional on me. So you and I can answer this question together. We both know that soloing is easier to get into, because you don't have to go through the effort of finding a group. Hell, I can admit that in DAoC I was happy to be able to solo while I looked for a group. But why would a person group if soloing reaped the same xp awards and allowed you to get to max level faster. I'm not saying we are all in a rush to get there, but we all want to keep advancing. Because essentially, not everyone is like me. Most people I have ran across, even though they were friendly and could carry on a good conversation while leveling, were mostly interested in getting to max level asap. So if soloing is easier to get into and also yeilds the same xp, why would someone who wants to advance now rather than later wait to get a group? This is why I feel that the xp must be better or come at a faster per hour pace if you group. A little off subject, but important nonetheless. I am against raid sized groups. I believe that you are no hero at all if you can't take down the strongest monster in a small group (3-4 people). In fact, I like the DnD group setup. A Caster, Tank, Rogue, and Healer. A group of 4 should be able to accomplish anything. In a RPing sense, the lone wolf is viable in most situations, but they rely heavily on merchants to supply their gear/food and local governments to cooperate with them. So a game like SWG where you could solo was good, because grouping was still fun, but what made the game was the reliance on non-combat professions. You had reasons to go back to a city or town...or of course you could pay a Doctor and Entertainer to come with you and you could just set up a camp in the wilderness.

MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW

Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.

4 Pages 1 2 3 4 » Search