The trouble with PvP looting is that the only profession worth having is PK. Even without looting, you still have to figure out that open PvP in any form is by itself enough to kill absolutely all joy for a lot of people, and a very large proportion of these are the people who like to craft - I for one would never play a game with open PvP.

Much of the other stuff you described sounded like SWG; so it has been done, and could be done again.

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Originally posted by dilatedmind
I'm not going to lie to you, gaming really does amount to wasting your life.

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Please name even one thing that doesn't. I seriously can't think of any.

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Originally posted by dilatedmind
its funny some of you bring up real life... Maybe it was last week on Fox News, Bill O'Reilly ripped apart gamers. I'm not going to lie to you, gaming really does amount to wasting your life. Of course, so does watching most TV programs, and between the two, I'm certain most everyone wastes some of their life. I'm not sure how old some of you are... but I regret spending so much time playing videogames growing up.

Anyway, I'm not a programmer, so I can't say how difficult a game like this would be to code. Most of these ideas have already been realized in other games though, so I can't imagine the difficulty being in the coding. I would expect the difficulty is tying all these complex ideas together, while keeping things simple enough to be enjoyable. If we're going to be investing our time in games like this, we should expect to get something out of it, more then just a higher level and meaningless gear. I think diplomacy is especially lacking in mmorpgs. There are too many rules that prevent players from having influence over one another. They barely rely on each other, the most casual relationships and grouping will do, most items are provided as loot or sold by npcs, and security is provided by town guards or PK restrictions. There is also the necessity of balance between individual achievement, and teamwork. A tale in the desert is a great example of teamwork, while you may look at diablo ii as a perfect example of individual achievement. The biggest setback for a game like the one I'd like to play, is the reliance on its players. If you log onto flyff, it doesn't matter if your the only person on at the time, or if your surrounded by a bunch off assholes, the game will go on. A real mmorpg should be nothing more then a set of rules and an enviroment to role play in. The risk is that it would rely on the virtues of its players to lead and shape the world in such a way that it is enjoyable to be a part of.

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I don't mean this as a flame (really, I don't), but Fox news, and Bill O'reilly aren't really what is termed actual journalism. They have very certain and determined agendas. Not saying that your basic point is invalid. We spend most of our time in what I usually think of as "distraction", problem is coming to a conclusion as to what a individual deems worthy of their serious expenditure of time and energy as a meaningful pursuit (just "going out", to say a bar or club is usually just a different kind of distraction, it's definitely not at all necessarily any more fulfilling or meaningful then playing a game). Trying to discover real personal meaning in life is probably the single most important personal thing anyone can ever do, definitely not a simple easy thing to do.

These is a very sad post I don’t know if I want to keep gaming or reach though my screen and slap the OP, and some of the other posters for being such asshats.

There are a lot of things in life that do not waste you time away. Like kids (if you have any), family (if you have any and like to spend time with them), job (if you hate your job, find a new one) exercise (you are prolly pretty heavy if you game as much as I think you do so get out and lift something not measured in ounces), meeting women (if you giggle when you read this part YOU ARE NOT READY), Go for a walk (why not it's good to use them for something other than picking things up because you cant bend over), Church (I am not a religious man but it works for some people), got visit some friends (People you met in a ventrillo or a TS server not optional must be someone OUT of game to be a real visit), Go back to school (Education sucks but I does help to make the big bucks so that you can pay someone to build this awesome game of yours).

I hate to sound like a dad but I am. I am a gamer as well, but I play after I put the wife and kids to bed and I am never more than 2 levels behind the power levelers. I love games but there are so many other things in life that are so much more important. The last thing you want to do is end up alone and staring at your rig and that being the only thing you are proud of.

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Originally posted by dilatedmind
Look, I've played most every major mmorpg and rts game, but over the past few years I've lost faith in the genre. Nothing has really excited me lately, and I've found myself hesitent to start playing anything, because I know that more likely then not I will lose interest in a few weeks. I know its been said before, but UO was the only mmorpg I really got into. Other games I played for a decent amount of time have been shadowbane, the WoW beta, and DaOC. My main problem with mmorpgs is the leveling system... while grinding may be fun, a game should not be based around leveling. Strengthing your character should just be the beginning... there needs to be a really impressive endgame for a game to worthwhile in my opinion. So, im taking it upon myself to lay down some ideas, that I think would make a mmorpg awesome. Ill try and keep it short.

Firstly, there cannot be any levels. I'd like to see the game based on real life, and by that I mean, a real player based  economy, real politics, and yes, dropping your items when you die. The game should be skill based, and stat points should be dynamic. Id say basically rip off ultima online in this reguard. I'm not sure if I like the idea of races. Sure it may be cool to be an orc, dwarf, or something thats non-human... but I think anything thats gimmicky needs to be avoided. When you start out, it probably would be best to have a few major NPC cities, similar to shadowbane. Outside of these cities though, I'd advocate having something thats shadowbane like, politically. You should be able to group together with other players, and form a nation. Unlike shadowbane though, there shouldnt be resource locations to capture. Id want there to be actual resources. Think a mix of uo and shadowbane... if you wanted to build a wall for your city, someone would need a lumberjack skill. Then theyd cut down some wood, use their carpenter skill to make boards, and have someone with a construction skill build a wall. Most anything would be player craftable, and magic items would be kept to a minimum. The person who has the highest crafting skill, and uses the absolute best resources, will make the most useful items. It should be easy to get standard resources, but there would be rarer mines as well. Basically there are alot of things from UO's resource gathering system that I like.

So there we already have the basic foundations of cities. The world would be large enough to provide room for everyone, but at the same time things would have to be close enough to allow for lots of human interaction. Trade should be important... the only interaction between cities should not just be war. One area may be mountainous and rich in metals, another arable and producing surplus food. Of course, PvP would be a foundation of the game... if its going to be an online game, then your greatest challenge should be overcomming other players, not mindlessly grinding levels. I like the old UO pvp system... being able to attack anyone, but flagging criminal, or murderer. Being able to attack those who you are allied with and at war with, I believe they flagged green and orange if i remember right. Sure, some people complain when pking is rampant, and they dont want to lose their items... but if you only want to kill NPC monsters, why are you playing an online game? Of couse, a game like this would need a high enough population to make it fun, but I feel that things would be spread out enough to allow many people on one server.

As far as combat skills go... Id probably advocate something similar to UO. There would be no max amount of skills though, but skills would degrade over time. Essentially, your max skill levels would be limited to how much time you could spend practicing or using them. If all you did was mine iron, then your mining skills would go far beyond GM. If you were more balanced, and say mined and blacksmithed, then you would see something more along the lines of GM of each. If you split it even further, you could be an ok craftsman, and an ok fighter, but not excellent at many things. When you died, youd drop everything you had, and youd be a spirit, although It would not be difficult to get brought back to life.

Im actually not sure how combat should actually be... It could be something like select your target, and click the attack button like every other game... or it could be different. I think bots (the acclaim game) has a good system. If youve played it, then you know exactly what I  mean. Its similar to a first person shooter, in that you walk around, dodge attacks, and swing your weapon when your lined up with your target. I think this could be alot more fun then the way things are now... where you just click and sit back. As for casting spells.. maybe the mouse would be involved... youd select where you want to direct your spell, and try and hit your target. I think this would create a new, and much more interesting balance between spell casting and melee. Melee would be easy to hit your target, but spell casting would take much more finesse, and could be much more devestating in the hands of someone skilled enough.

That lays the foundations for the economy, the city structure, and combat. I think one important element could be the NPCs. Ive yet to see a game where NPC's played a real threat. Perhaps humans would not be the only race in this world. GM's could maintain NPC cities of some hostile race, and while there would be some places that offered easy expansion for players, others would be hotly contested by NPC nations as well.

Most importantly, this game would have to be fun. Everything would have to be tied together in such a way, that any task you had to do, would be something you wanted to do. You'd actually care about your city, and you'd face adversaries hard enough to force you to work hard to survive. This game would be about teamwork, and challenges that would require substantial thought and diplomacy to be successful.

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Originally posted by Xantheous
There are a lot of things in life that do not waste you time away. Like kids (if you have any), family (if you have any and like to spend time with them), job (if you hate your job, find a new one) exercise (you are prolly pretty heavy if you game as much as I think you do so get out and lift something not measured in ounces), meeting women (if you giggle when you read this part YOU ARE NOT READY), Go for a walk (why not it's good to use them for something other than picking things up because you cant bend over), Church (I am not a religious man but it works for some people), got visit some friends (People you met in a ventrillo or a TS server not optional must be someone OUT of game to be a real visit), Go back to school (Education sucks but I does help to make the big bucks so that you can pay someone to build this awesome game of yours).

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That's all entirely subjective. I for one tend to consider having kids and starting a family as pretty much the number #1 time waster; you spend most of your time catering to the needs of kids and wife instead of doing what you really want to do, and it's not like contributing to over-population was some sort of noble cause either. School, work and exercise are just necessary evils; doing more than the absolute minimum of each is just recreation at best (as in, same as playing a computer game) and totally insane at worst. Meeting women gets old fast (assuming you're not one of those losers whose self-esteem is based on sex appeal), and like many psychologists, I have a less than positive view of religion.

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Originally posted by Jade6

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Originally posted by XantheousThere are a lot of things in life that do not waste you time away. Like kids (if you have any), family (if you have any and like to spend time with them), job (if you hate your job, find a new one) exercise (you are prolly pretty heavy if you game as much as I think you do so get out and lift something not measured in ounces), meeting women (if you giggle when you read this part YOU ARE NOT READY), Go for a walk (why not it's good to use them for something other than picking things up because you cant bend over), Church (I am not a religious man but it works for some people), got visit some friends (People you met in a ventrillo or a TS server not optional must be someone OUT of game to be a real visit), Go back to school (Education sucks but I does help to make the big bucks so that you can pay someone to build this awesome game of yours).

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That's all entirely subjective. I for one tend to consider having kids and starting a family as pretty much the number #1 time waster; you spend most of your time catering to the needs of kids and wife instead of doing what you really want to do, and it's not like contributing to over-population was some sort of noble cause either. School, work and exercise are just necessary evils; doing more than the absolute minimum of each is just recreation at best (as in, same as playing a computer game) and totally insane at worst. Meeting women gets old fast (assuming you're not one of those losers whose self-esteem is based on sex appeal), and like many psychologists, I have a less than positive view of religion.

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I agree, although I expect to have the US men-in-black secret police show up at the door any minute for doing so, Heresy! "family" is the meaning of life (that is to say the US nuclear family consisting of 1 man 1 woman and 1.2 children, "family" being defined by George W and his cronies as the holy union between a man and woman. Seriously I think alot of the urge people have to get married and have kids is just a sublimation of very basic animal biological urges that our now greater intelligence finds ways of telling us is so much more. Also its very unfortunately a thing so many people do because "it's expected" of them, it's what they were brought up believing is just "what you do", you get married, have kids, regardless of what you might really think or feel about it.

Bill O'reilly is a mental midget.

If playing games is what makes you happy then do it, if it doesn't don't. You can't take anything with you when you die, the whole "waste of life" comment is a cliche statement driven by social osmosis.

Everyone always brings up ganking in PvP games, I think I have a solution: Why not set up an NPC police force before launch and then have them draft PCs into the force to fight off gankers and greifers? A digital police force that hunts down criminals just like in real life.

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Originally posted by Distortion0

Everyone always brings up ganking in PvP games, I think I have a solution: Why not set up an NPC police force before launch and then have them draft PCs into the force to fight off gankers and greifers? A digital police force that hunts down criminals just like in real life.

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