Ok well I'm not retarded but i AM for....both sides of this artical. Allthough I hate how it ruins the economy of a server, (i was on my server and a lvl 8 green was for 65s,)  I think it is fine for people to buy money. It IS their money, after all. However, I am NOT happy with powerleveling services. Why should people get to pay to have a level 60 with epic gear and epic mount when they did not WORK for it?!?!?! to me that is lazyness and ruins the point of the game, and Blizz has good reason to ban people for it. I say this and i am very lazy lol. Horde ftw.

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Originally posted by Bloodharvest
 Ok well I'm not retarded but i AM for....both sides of this artical. Allthough I hate how it ruins the economy of a server, (i was on my server and a lvl 8 green was for 65s,)  I think it is fine for people to buy money. It IS their money, after all. However, I am NOT happy with powerleveling services. Why should people get to pay to have a level 60 with epic gear and epic mount when they did not WORK for it?!?!?! to me that is lazyness and ruins the point of the game, and Blizz has good reason to ban people for it. I say this and i am very lazy lol. Horde ftw.

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At the end of the day, it sometimes would boil down to simple game style preference, sometimes its about cheating and sometimes again, its about breaking a legal contract.

Because I don't see no point of trying to reason the people like you on an internet forum, I'll just continue peacefully hating you for what you stand for and what you are: someone without a sense of honor and no respect.

^dork

for those that have never sold anything via a third party and have gotten cancelled due to logging in from a different location....

two words....law suit

No matter what terms of service you "agree" to.  There are legal obligations for a company to provide the product that is being paid for.  Not just take your money and say bubye!

Now...if they ban an account and refund money for time not played...then nevermind...they can deny service to whomever they choose is they have written down somewhere.  Which they probably do.

Anyways...that's my opinion.

no actually, i dont know if you read the fine print, but you have NO rights for your account.  It was in the pc gamer article if you read it, but somewhere in the fine print they state something along the lines of Blizzard holds the right to ban accounts and blah blah blah.  Its wicked annoying, but also was a smart move by Blizzard since they have supreme power over a million accounts(thats the number right?)

*watches a small child put his hand in the cookie jar, look directly at a parent and still utter the famouse words, 'I didn't do it.'" 

Bannings: Perhaps a thank you is in order. Why waste your hard earned money on a game that lacks consistancy in policy.

The "buying gold" topis is as old as MMO's. LOL!  But, I do like to jump in as devil's advocate. I absolutely love the "I worked hard to get what so and so just bougt" debate. First of all, your sitting on your butt, at a keyboard, pushing some buttons and a mouse. Work? Hardly.  Which makes me wonder, do you also go picket your neighbor's house if he/she elects to hire the neighborhood kid to cut grass when you had to actually go push your own mower through your yard?  Please, stop worrying about what your neighbor is doing and focus more on what you can do to make the entire neighborhood a cool place...go help him get his grass cut instead of complaining about how he's getting it done.

To all of those who scream how damaging it is to the economy. No, actually what damages the economy is simple human greed. Is it so easy to blame the person selling the gold, blame the person buying the gold, but never acknowledge the player asking 100 gold for a level 19 blue item.  I blame player greed coupled with poor game design for what transpires outside the game (ie., gold sales). The farmers are simply supplying something that's in demand. Shut off the need (the demand) and you kill the farmers (supply). Help your neighbor cut his grass, and the neighborhood kid will go get a paper route instead. It's very simple, unfortunatley, too many simply want to sit back and throw a childish hissy fit as opposed to do something unselfish with their time.

Welcome to the world of MMO's.

-Ashyn

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Originally posted by FergRedbeard

for those that have never sold anything via a third party and have gotten cancelled due to logging in from a different location....

two words....law suit

No matter what terms of service you "agree" to.  There are legal obligations for a company to provide the product that is being paid for.  Not just take your money and say bubye!

Now...if they ban an account and refund money for time not played...then nevermind...they can deny service to whomever they choose is they have written down somewhere.  Which they probably do.

Anyways...that's my opinion.

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Part of the problem is, Joe Averageguy (and most other people who don't have cash to throw out the window) don't sue each other for such small amount of money, it doesn't make sense money-wise.

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Originally posted by eshi
no actually, i dont know if you read the fine print, but you have NO rights for your account.  It was in the pc gamer article if you read it, but somewhere in the fine print they state something along the lines of Blizzard holds the right to ban accounts and blah blah blah.  Its wicked annoying, but also was a smart move by Blizzard since they have supreme power over a million accounts(thats the number right?)

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actually, i don't know if you're in the U.S. or what state you're in... but in some states, those eulas are not legally binding.  

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Originally posted by faefrost

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Originally posted by jimmyman99

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Originally posted by happilpie

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Originally posted by boognish75

well the time thing i see from a buisnees oint of view, to be playing more than 100 hours a week means more than one person is playing that account, and thats a big nono, one person to one account and thats a rule for almost all moo's and it also means more money for the mmo maker as that would require 2 people to have 1 account each, and blizz is all about making money, if yer having 2 people play an account then thats not making them money.

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I don't play WoW, dont even like it but this statement is so untrue.....there are people like me that can literally stay up for 3-5 days straight playing and only need a few hours to recoup.  If you have ever been in the military in any kind of combat situation you know you sleep very little if any at all with ongoing operations.  I play my games with the same mentality....I actually camped the FBss and SMR in one session on EQ took almost 7 days and went through 3 server down times that week.  I was the first person back online everytime so I ran the groups for those camps. 

 

As for everyone elses statements.....like others have stated from a business stand point its good to let the gold farmers work for a while and then ban their accts.   It makes them more money because they will buy more accts as stated and thus have another account raking in money while they get to keep whatever was left on the previous account.  Its all about money, its not about your fun or even what you want, thats not what a business is interested in.  Anyone who thinks Blizzard is different than any other big company is just plain dumb.

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The thing is, botters dont actualy BUY this game. They use trials to get free access for a few days, farm a bit money, transfer gold to their main account, or to someone who paid. So in reality, the only one who is in serious danger is the buyer itself and the community in general. I dont know how far a botter can level itself in 7 days of non-stop botting, or how much money they can grind, but it is a fact that at least some of those botters work through trials becuase there was a big issue here in MMORPG.COM where a LOT of new accounts were created with these weird names like "aigsngdslk" and obtained a trial key for WoW. Needless to say that account was never heard of nor was it ever involved in forum activities. So I believe this activity is indeed hurting Bliz business, so they are doing some fairly drastic (dare say radical?) things in order to protect their playerbase a.k.a. incomebase.

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how far could they get in 7 days?  They can get to level 20, and they can transfer no more than 20 gold. Free trial accounts are capped in this manner.

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Well, ive "heard" that someone got to 60 in 2 or 3 weeks right after WoW was released. Not sure if its true or not, but if u bot 7 days non-stop, no breaks, just grind mobs/quests, then its not unrealistic to get to 40. Yeah they arent gonna farm a lot, but its a no-loss situation for botters. Sure they dont earn as much but they also dont pay for an account so they dont risk losing money at all.

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Originally posted by Ashyn

*watches a small child put his hand in the cookie jar, look directly at a parent and still utter the famouse words, 'I didn't do it.'" 

Bannings: Perhaps a thank you is in order. Why waste your hard earned money on a game that lacks consistancy in policy.

The "buying gold" topis is as old as MMO's. LOL!  But, I do like to jump in as devil's advocate. I absolutely love the "I worked hard to get what so and so just bougt" debate. First of all, your sitting on your butt, at a keyboard, pushing some buttons and a mouse. Work? Hardly.  Which makes me wonder, do you also go picket your neighbor's house if he/she elects to hire the neighborhood kid to cut grass when you had to actually go push your own mower through your yard?  Please, stop worrying about what your neighbor is doing and focus more on what you can do to make the entire neighborhood a cool place...go help him get his grass cut instead of complaining about how he's getting it done.

To all of those who scream how damaging it is to the economy. No, actually what damages the economy is simple human greed. Is it so easy to blame the person selling the gold, blame the person buying the gold, but never acknowledge the player asking 100 gold for a level 19 blue item.  I blame player greed coupled with poor game design for what transpires outside the game (ie., gold sales). The farmers are simply supplying something that's in demand. Shut off the need (the demand) and you kill the farmers (supply). Help your neighbor cut his grass, and the neighborhood kid will go get a paper route instead. It's very simple, unfortunatley, too many simply want to sit back and throw a childish hissy fit as opposed to do something unselfish with their time.

Welcome to the world of MMO's.

-Ashyn

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Why does someone ask 100 gold for a level 19 blue item? Becuase there are people who paid 10$ for that 100 gold. What would happen if there was no buying gold for money? Would anyone realy pay 100 gold for a level 19 item? Thats why gold buyers ruin economy.

Dont blame the drug-addict for purchasing drugs, blame the drug-dealer who uses drug-addict's weakness to drugs

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Why does someone ask 100 gold for a level 19 blue item? Becuase there are people who paid 10$ for that 100 gold. What would happen if there was no buying gold for money? Would anyone realy pay 100 gold for a level 19 item? Thats why gold buyers ruin economy.

Dont blame the drug-addict for purchasing drugs, blame the drug-dealer who uses drug-addict's weakness to drugs

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Using drug addiction as an anology isn't what I would consider valid for arguement's sake, not in MMO's. 

I gather from your post that you do blame the gold suppliers and it appears that you view it the same as you view those who sell drugs. Using your views, I can point out the flaws in the logic simply by stating that those who are "addicted" to the game more than likely have an adequate "gold" supply. Those aren't the primary ones purchasing the gold.

 Perhaps you would like to drop a poll onto the forums and ask to find out the number one reason for purchasing gold.  I have a good idea of what the highest percentage of answers would be; Simply the lack of time to aquire the amount of gold needed for an item, not "Omgz I'm soz addicted I can't get enough roxxerz my soxxerz goldz."

I believe the highest percentage of "buyers" out there are the casual gamers who work 40 or more hours each week, enjoy a bit of gaming time and would like to play to the fullest capacity but is limited due to either

• Game Mechanics: that make a game more difficult and/or time consuming for the casual gamer to acquire any real "game wealth" to progress
• Player Greed: players asking a ridiculous amount for an item (an amount that by the time the player actually aquires the money, he/she has leveled ten more times and outgrown the item, thus tossing it back on "game mechanics").

You and I will obviousely differ on point of view. Perhaps you do picket your neighbor's house when they hire a gardner but you have to hand plant all of your begonias. I simply don't. How my neighbor spends his money is his business. How I spend mine is mine and quite frankly, anyone who believes otherwise should perhaps move to a communist society in order to fully understand the value of personal freedom.

-Ashyn

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Originally posted by Ashyn

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Why does someone ask 100 gold for a level 19 blue item? Becuase there are people who paid 10$ for that 100 gold. What would happen if there was no buying gold for money? Would anyone realy pay 100 gold for a level 19 item? Thats why gold buyers ruin economy.

Dont blame the drug-addict for purchasing drugs, blame the drug-dealer who uses drug-addict's weakness to drugs

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Using drug addiction as an anology isn't what I would consider valid for arguement's sake, not in MMO's. 

I gather from your post that you do blame the gold suppliers and it appears that you view it the same as you view those who sell drugs. Using your views, I can point out the flaws in the logic simply by stating that those who are "addicted" to the game more than likely have an adequate "gold" supply. Those aren't the primary ones purchasing the gold.

 Perhaps you would like to drop a poll onto the forums and ask to find out the number one reason for purchasing gold.  I have a good idea of what the highest percentage of answers would be; Simply the lack of time to aquire the amount of gold needed for an item, not "Omgz I'm soz addicted I can't get enough roxxerz my soxxerz goldz."

I believe the highest percentage of "buyers" out there are the casual gamers who work 40 or more hours each week, enjoy a bit of gaming time and would like to play to the fullest capacity but is limited due to either

• Game Mechanics: that make a game more difficult and/or time consuming for the casual gamer to acquire any real "game wealth" to progress
• Player Greed: players asking a ridiculous amount for an item (an amount that by the time the player actually aquires the money, he/she has leveled ten more times and outgrown the item, thus tossing it back on "game mechanics").

You and I will obviousely differ on point of view. Perhaps you do picket your neighbor's house when they hire a gardner but you have to hand plant all of your begonias. I simply don't. How my neighbor spends his money is his business. How I spend mine is mine and quite frankly, anyone who believes otherwise should perhaps move to a communist society in order to fully understand the value of personal freedom.

-Ashyn

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No we dont seem to differ on point of view, i guess m yexample was flawed. The point I was trying to illustrate (as you pointed out) is not the fact that gold buyers are addicted, but that they dont want to spend time to acquire that gold. My example was there only to show the clear difference whos fault it is for goldselling. Some people try to blame the "community" for creating the market for cheating. They say something like "if no1 was  willing to buy gold, then there would be no gold-selling". In a way, it kinda makes sense, but people need to understand that people are ... people. We try to cut corners where possible, we do things we are not supposed to do, when we think no1 is watching. Thats doesnt necessarily mean we are BAD or CHEATERS. Just means we are human. The real crime is NOT the desire to commit crime, but rather desire and will to do so.

Ill give a better example (I hope):
lets say a new MMORPG just came out, and there is a known exploit where if u double click on one specific NPC, you get teleported to a dif city free of charge thus saving you money and cost for travel (there is no other travel currently present other then runing to another city). The admins arent very serious in punishing people for using this bug becuase it does not seriously affect the global community (who cares if u traveled to a city in 5 seconds instead of 15 minutes?). They might give u a warning if they see someone do that over and over, but certanly wont ban that player.

In second scenario, the same exploit has one little nasty after effect, everytime a player travels like that, the server has a small chance of crashing(lets say 1%, or a half of a percent).

Im guessing pretty much everyone would be using the exploit in scenario #1, because its harmless and doesnt give u "god" powers nor does it realy unbalances things. In scenario 2, the consequences for an exploit are much more serious, thus realy foring people to think whether they should do it or not. I personaly wouldnt do it in scenario 2, but probably would do it in 1.

Same way with goldsellers, if that form of exploiting did not affect global economy, id care less. But if level 19 items were being sold for 100 gold becuase of that, i care a lot.

Sorry again for my previous bad example.

If you're running a program such as auctioneer, is this considered data mining? You are gathiering data and using other people's low prices on loot to make gold for yourself. I think Blizzard is pretty vague on this.

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Originally posted by yardwalker
If you're running a program such as auctioneer, is this considered data mining? You are gathiering data and using other people's low prices on loot to make gold for yourself. I think Blizzard is pretty vague on this.

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No, auctioneer simply colelcts data and shows u how valuable an item is. It is data mining, but not illegal. Also, how can u use other people's low prices on loot? The prices fluctuate, only NPCs dont change their prices. The only thing auctioneer helps is it can show u how much an item is worth. Its a statistical toold, nothing else.

PS: Auctioneer is not a program. Its a mod, a sort of script that WoW program loads and runs, it cant run without WoW. Not sure if there is a stand alone auctioneers (the ones that can run without WoW)

First off, stop making terrible analogies.  Our lawns don't battle in an online world, so I dont care if your hire someone to cut yours.  Its entirely different.

With that said, when you buy gold, I have to farm more gold.  This means you affect people negatively when you do this. THIS IS SELFISH.

There are already many games that have recognized the market for people who want to buy items and provide that service themselves.  I would suggest for people to go to those games if you want to involve more real-life money in gaming hobby.

Obviously though, no matter what measures the company takes to prevent in-game things being bought will real-life money; no matter what they do to game system to make the grind easier, selfish people will ALWAYS be doing this.

What I had meant to convey was that by using auctioneer, I can find stuff really cheap that people are selling and buy it. Then take the same item and sell it again at a profit. It is surprising how cheap some folks sell stuff for and how much gold I have made in the proccess.

 You don't need a mod or 3rd party program to buy low and sell high, just a working knowledge of item worth on your server.

Screw Blizzard.... here is my BBB result

---------------- SNIP ---------------------------

Complaint Description

Customer’s Desired Settlement

Company’s Response

Customer’s Rebuttal

Company’s Final Response

Now, here's the response when I tried to contact wowaccountadmin@ to investigate this matter further:

wowaccountadmin@blizzard.com

to me

show details

12/22/06

But in the BBB letter , after contesting this, they tell me to email them again.  This doesn't make sense to state in the BBB Final Response that i need to Email them, when they clearly state all Inquiries will go Unanswered.  If I had money to burn.. I would hire the most crooked attorney and shut them down. But alas, I am a blue collar worker and I get kicked in the balls for something like this. 

I think I sense an "I'm mad at Blizzard" forum coming soon. Looks like they are going to take lessons from Sony's cutomer service book. I've had no problems with them, but with as many people who have, it's a matter of time.