General Discussion

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Originally posted by Celestian


As a PW world builder for NWN1 and now NWN2 and a player I have to disagree with you.

A am glad to hear that, and i really hope you will support NWN2

I have no intention of going back to NWN1 to continue building at all. The immersion value of NWN2 is far higher than NWN1. You can build REAL mountains, forests and other such things.

True. And that is one of the few improvements. Which also bringst the huge PCW files download.

Bugs? NWN1 had a HUGE amount of bugs on release, nothing new. Can I remind you of the login bug they had for MONTHS! Your server would suddenly start refusing connections from anyone.

NWN1 did have lot of bugs at beggining. But is that a defence ? Is this the new accepted standard for games to come out with bugs?

AI? The AI in NWN2 performs the same as NWN1 as far as I can tell. Infact the casters are much faster than even NWN1 was (until I hacked in my own AI) so please explain your issues with AI.

AI didnt change. It is copy paste henchman AI from NWN1. True it is easily changable by scripting. But one would expect more from second instalment of the game. Also monster AI is similarly bugged. MOB always attacks the one that dealt the most damage in the round.Switching opponents like crazy. Now if AOo was working properly this would be a suicadal behavior from any mob.

Unfinished, recycled? Huh? Yeah there are issues that need to be resolved like OnDeath module events and PlayAnimations but please, how is it unfinished and "recycled" unless you're just trying to through out buzz words.

Unfinished: Stealth animation missing , sit animation missing , most of emotes missing , lot of creatures lack both attack and death animations , draw weapon/wield weapon animation missing , cleave attack animation missing ... thats the confirmed ones so far

Recycled: Most of music is the music from NWN1 - quite annoying after playing it for 4 years. Character voices have only 4 new sets, rest recycled. And this is only the surface things.

Scaled down multiplayer from NWN1? Um, here you are seriously making things up. Infact I can support MORE people ONLINE in NWN2 than in NWN1. Butchered multiplayer? How?

Maps are now smaller. MP chat interface lacks even the functionality of NWN1 (no whisper ...etc) Party, player list is barely functional... this is only example of downgrades.. Improvements are non existant.

Yes, you need the PCW files, yes it's annoying but it's no more annoying than HAK files. And you do NOT have to download a new PCW file everytime they change ANYTHING. It's a walkmesh which only changes should they alter the terrain or where you can walk.

Now you need to download files for every game you join. No more spontanious games.No more little mods that you whipped in editor and put as DM game online.
Hack packs were downloaded once and worked for most PWs , now every game needs its own special download. If i was to make mod , how would i distribute the files ? I need http or ftp adress to do that... In one word this will be a huge blow to simple number of online games available. (although Obsidians will fix this issue surely and make downloader in future)

I didn't mean to rip your post apart when I started but seriously, I dunno what your issues are with NWN2 but most of what you cited is blatently wrong or your just misinformed.

I agree the camera controls are wonky, but they were in NWN1. I had assumed we'd be able to have a first person mode but why we don't who knows. The WASD control is horrible too, I dunno why they dont make it work like FPS/EQ2/WOW/etc games.

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The questions asked of the NWN2 staff were less than interesting. A basic reading of any of the materials already released would have answered over half of these questions.

Granted NWN2 and the NWN series in general never really generates the same type of controversy that MMORPG interviewers are used to working within. Having no obvious questions about heated controversy; boring easily answered questions were asked instead.

I was going to say that the responses given by the NWN2 staff were well done and very complete, however I then realized that this whole interview seems pre-arranged, to make NWN2 look good (what we usually call an advertisement). Anyone who plays NWN2 (and pays attention) knows that the game doesn't need it. It's a great game and it stands on it's own.

I love www.mmorpg.com and am a long term reader (note my join date), but I think someone should speak a few short, kind, well placed words to the journalism staff regarding what makes for a good interview and what is just sucking up to development staff. I'm not saying that journalists have to be confrontational and make enemies... I'm just saying that for the sake of making an interesting read... and for the sake of getting some new information (what they call "news") they should perhaps try to ask more complex and interesting questions... specifically ones that are not easily answered by reading a games FAQ.

Warmest regards, and good gaming to you and yours.

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Originally posted by Celestian

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Originally posted by Rattrap

Obsidian took the game and literally butchered it!

It is bugzorama barely working on even advanced PC's. AI is absymal and you need to constantly adjust the camera just to see where are you going. It will take 6 months of patching just to make it playable.

The game is unfinished , recycled and generally in beta stage - the beta stage you have to pay to play.



But this is not the worst part

Obsidian literally butchered the multiplayer in NWN2. They didnt improve nothing at all. Instead whatever functionality of nwn1 they didnt took away, they scaled down.

But you think that would be enough bad news.

You are wrong.

For every server you want to play on - you now must go ofline and download hefty file (around 100 mb). And this you must do again , every time the PW server changes anything.


Forget about PW's in nwn2 , most of PW admins and coders are going back to NWN1


This is a decent to average single player game , at its best

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As a PW world builder for NWN1 and now NWN2 and a player I have to disagree with you.

I have no intention of going back to NWN1 to continue building at all. The immersion value of NWN2 is far higher than NWN1. You can build REAL mountains, forests and other such things.

Bugs? NWN1 had a HUGE amount of bugs on release, nothing new. Can I remind you of the login bug they had for MONTHS! Your server would suddenly start refusing connections from anyone.

AI? The AI in NWN2 performs the same as NWN1 as far as I can tell. Infact the casters are much faster than even NWN1 was (until I hacked in my own AI) so please explain your issues with AI.

Unfinished, recycled? Huh? Yeah there are issues that need to be resolved like OnDeath module events and PlayAnimations but please, how is it unfinished and "recycled" unless you're just trying to through out buzz words.

Scaled down multiplayer from NWN1? Um, here you are seriously making things up. Infact I can support MORE people ONLINE in NWN2 than in NWN1. Butchered multiplayer? How?

Yes, you need the PCW files, yes it's annoying but it's no more annoying than HAK files. And you do NOT have to download a new PCW file everytime they change ANYTHING. It's a walkmesh which only changes should they alter the terrain or where you can walk.

I didn't mean to rip your post apart when I started but seriously, I dunno what your issues are with NWN2 but most of what you cited is blatently wrong or your just misinformed.

I agree the camera controls are wonky, but they were in NWN1. I had assumed we'd be able to have a first person mode but why we don't who knows. The WASD control is horrible too, I dunno why they dont make it work like FPS/EQ2/WOW/etc games.

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Originally posted by sh1ny
Would you mind explaining to us how are you going to build that wonderful server, with MORE players than NWN1 ? Why ? Because if you're builder then you already know you wont be getting away with more than a 20 to 30 areas if you have large outdoor ones. You cant load a module bigger than 2GB and 10-15 large outdoor areas are what fill 3/4 of this, so you can have a few dungeons as well. So you're either going with cross servers ( and you're rich, grats :) ) or you're stuck with trying to make outdoor areas using modified interior tilesets ( check nwn2forums.bioware.com for more info ). So umm all that talk from Obsidian about them waiting to see how creative the community can be and what it can produce....well it's damn sure the community WILL have to be very creative to produce some good sized PW's. I like the single player, and the game is running well on a 1.6 Celeron ( @ 2.1 currently ) with 512 ram and ATI 9550 gamers edition ( asus ftw ! :P ), but i doubt we will see MANY and BIG enough PW's anytime soon ( try reaching nordock 1.5's 600 areas...gl ).

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Originally posted by mindspat

I believe most of those who are complaining could possibily be clueless as to how to adjust graphical settings on a gaming client. 

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Haha, insulting MOST peoples who have issues with lag will certainly help "your cause".

See, here are the many reason why the lag is awful in NWN2:

1- There is no auto-adjustment or suggestion, the basic value it gave you, the basic setting, is abysmal to say the least.  So the game HAS to be adjusted after installation, which is a clear flaw to start with.  Most games I don't ever adjust anything, my computer is "powerful" enought to run it nicely, smoothly and lagless...

2- The lag is worser in dungeons than in the game world and VARY A LOT with every zone.  Thereby, you have set it, it work fine, then suddenly, it doesn't in the next zone.  The game has no consistancy, it is like if it was the work of 10 independant companies rather than a finish product.  I expect to see such differences in an unfinished product, not in a release title.

Attacking the users who complain about lag is certainly not the way to settle the issue.  Obsidian are noobs, the game has no auto-adjust (and this is something IMPORTANT), so someone who already waste the time necessary to install the game, can play it, rather than fine tune it.

I personnally adjust my game options 5 times while I was playing the game.  1 should do it, 2 at worst...5 is abysmal.  And still, depending on the area, on the zone where I fight, I may have no lag at all, or lag like hell.  Most games that I play, I just run it right away.  In other games I adjust it ONCE at worst, not 5 times.

PS: Since you praise yourself as a beta tester, I am not one myself and I am not good at finding bugs.  However I found 6 bugs in the game, which is indeed quite bad, I shouldn't find bugs.  1- Bracers of AC stack with armors...this is a "new feature" with NWN2 that isn't the case in D&D and hopefully wasn't the case in NWN, breaking 40 AC is easy and it wasn't designed to be easy.  2- Black Garius at the Keep gate, he wait idle with a speak box, but can't click him.  Must reload to clear the bug.  3- Final fight, clicking the portal to get the King of Shadows is bugged, the detection zone need to be 4 or 5 times bigger if not more.  4- Natural armor, if someone has 2 point of natural armor from an amulet and receive a spell that boost it to 6, he should get 6, not 8...yet again, AC is completely screwed...also, for some strange reason, tortoise shell doesn't improve with levels, while it should...guess a lazy programmer just put a static value...yet, it was designed to change, not to be static... 5- Spamming the player, I understand it the first time that 2 bonuses doesn't stack, you don't have to spam me over and over again, if you are afraid that I miss the info, you should't spam me, you should warn me once and then leave it somewhere to be readable at all the time...but you have items that give MANY bonuses, even if one of the bonuses it give doesn't interest me, I might want it for another, yet you don't need to repeat that the minor bonus doesn't stack all that time...but this is called...Game Design (ring and cloack both giving deflection).  6- Deflection AC doesn't stack in D&D, but weird combos that should give nothing might still give 1 point of extra AC (deflection 3 + 2 = deflection 3, not 4)...