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Originally posted by Vrazule 

Where in the hell do you get the idea casusals want loot for free.  This is the most idiotic argument you hardcores always come up with.  Its baseless innuendo.  You can't stand the idea of anyone but hardcores getting the good loot.  Makes you feel elite I suppose, kind of sad when you consider this is a game and none of this crap means a damn thing in the real world.  Accomplishments don't mean crap in a game either.  You want a real sense of accomplishment, get off your ass, get outside and do something worthwhile, but don't you dare spout off this work ethic crap for a stupid game.  Its this exact kind of mentality that earns you the label of geek and freak.  Its also why these games will never and I mean never appeal to mainstream unless they change this ridiculous attitude.

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I don't play this game anymore, I quit months ago.  Secondly, I'm not interested in what you hardcores want.  You've been getting it your way for a very long time.  Its time for dev companies to get off their collective asses and come up with games that are fun and reward other play styles than those who raid or prefer to sit in front of their computers 8 hours straight.  7.5 million is a mere drop in the bucket compared to the sheer millions that play yahoo and msn games and the other countless millions who don't play computer games at all, but could be enticed to do so.  The potential is phenomenal and yet they continue to do things the same way ever frigging game that comes out in the MMO market.

Can anyone tell me how many of those 7.5 million are happy with the end game in WoW?  Wasn't there some number floating around that only 20% of all players actually raid which was stated during some Blizzard roundtable?  If those numbers are true, how do you justify the current state of the game?  How many of those 20% raid because they think its fun versus those who do it because there is nothing else to do?  Why should they focus so much attention on such a small portion of their player base and why should they get the best rewards in the game?  Your hardcore play style is no more worthy of this specialized reward system over that of solo / small group / questing / crafting styles.

For some people, raiding isn't about time constraints, its about play style, its about being tired of the same old paradigms that are not only getting outdated and boring, but are unfair to a lot of players.  So get off your high horse and realize that your play style isn't the only one worthy of the developer's attention nor is it the only one worthy of the best gear in the game.

The devs obviously envision WoW as a game where you work hard for your items and gear, and therefore the game is based around working hard for gear to be competitive. What the devs decide to do hardly concerns someone who doesn't play and hasn't played for months, if you "don't care" then stfu.

Actually, it does concern me and others like me.  For one, the game up to 55 does not require work, the work part only kicks in when raiding becomes the only venue for advancement.  The game is casual for a good part of its life cycle.  I don't care if they have raiding in the game, I only have issue with them rewarding only raiders with the best gear.  Its unfair and it completely undermines the casual 1 - 55 game that came before it.  I am still a potential customer and there is a good likelyhood, considering the other posts that mirror mine, that I'm not the only one who has taken issue with their current "raid or die" paradigm.  So it would behoove Blizzard to change, and guess what, they are making changes in the upcoming expansion, almost expressly due to complainers such as myself.  They are adding non-raiding activities to the endgame, but the changes aren't large enough to suit me since they still give the best rewards to raiders, so I will continue to voice my opinion as long as I desire to do so.

The fact of the matter is that voicing opinions on boards doesn't just affect WoW, it is read by others, even other developers and it can make an impression on them to make changes in the future for any MMO.  Currently, online boards are the only viable method of getting our opinions heard, so you better get used to us hanging around and having our say. 

If your only comeback is to tell others to STFU, then maybe you should remember what country this game resides in. As long as you're going to play a US game, you're going to have to deal with the voice of dissent.  Its because of people like us that the genre moves forward and evolves, if people didn't complain about the "status quo" things would never change at all.

There is nothing hard about Naxx or any of the other raiding instances, its all about time investment.  If you want something hard, get a frickin job, smart ass.  These are suppose to be entertainment software, not second jobs.  The equalizer is the monthly fee.  They have no right to charge casuals for content that only harcore's enjoy.  Our play style is just as deserving of a meaningful reward system.  You want to work for your gear, that's your business.  I just want to be rewarded for the way I like to play the game.  I pay 15 bucks a month, I expect to get equal representation, otherwise, set up elite servers that charge 39.99 a month so you can get your elite raiding gear and screw any other play style.

There's no point in arguing with you, you and your raiding buddies feel entitled and there's nothing any other player can say to change your egotisitcal beliefs.  Lets just hope the developers will get smart and realize they can't make us second class players and get away with it.  Either start treating us equally or start expecting more fallout as players get fed up with this elitists mentality that is so pervasive in MMOs today.  As the industry matures, players will become less likely to accept being pissed on and move on to something else.  The Golden Age of the MMO caste system will be their downfall if they don't straighten up their act.  It has become so expensive to create and maintain these games anymore, they can't afford to be niche.  They will have to appeal to a larger audience or investors  will stop investing with such small returns.

Wow, that must have hit a nerve.  You sound like one of those spoiled brats who throws a tantrum because their mommy tells them to share their toys with a sibliing.  I get the picture, you don't like to share, period.  Its obvious that raiders get some kind of false sense of superiority with the current paradigm.  You think your way of playing is the only one that is challenging and that its the only path worthy of the best equipment.  I hate to break it to you, but there is nothing special about raiding, nor is there anything special about raiders.  You invest the time, but you do not hold the market on skill.  Well, we casuals also invest the time, maybe not in one sitting, but we will eventually spend as much time in game as you do and yet our play style will never have recourse to the good gear.  You think that's fair, I don't and I'm not alone in that belief. 

Thank God not everyone is as narrow minded as you are, although many of the dev companies seem to agree with your opinion currently, but they're learning that it isn't okay to alienate any segment of their player base.  It may take a while, but eventually, you raiders will have to deal with the fact that you aren't God's gift to the MMO industry and that casuals / non-raiders are just as loyal and just as likely to spend money on expansions as long as we are being catered to.  We outnumber you and sooner or later we will get the lion's share of the best content a game has to offer.  Mark my words, your days as the MMO top dogs are numbered.

Tell me all about it when you've found this game that caters to casuals exclusively, I'll be sure to skip that one. The new honour system is designed to give you rewards. Faction grinding gets you items, that are quite decent. There are plenty of ways to get good gear but raiding has been expanded upon hugely and therefore the other methods of gearing up have been left behind. Crafting is now based on patterns attained from raiding. But the bottom line is 3/4 of end game IS through 40 man raids(soon to be 25 mans) so you arethe one that chooses to skip what 3/4 of end game is all about. You're missing out not me. Blizzard's destruction of macros and mods is making me quit Wow permanently

I take it you call anyone who doesn't agree with your opinion a noob.  I don't join guilds because they suck.  I don't need the politics and infighting that goes with it, especially in a raiding guild.  I'm glad to see you know how annoying a game can be.  Many of us "noobs" don't raid because we find it annoying.  It has absolutely nothing to do with ability and has everything to do with a lack of desire to sit in front of a computer for 4 to 8 hours straight.  There is just something deeply disturbing about people who are willing to sit their fat asses in front of a computer for that long and not get paid for it.

Your lack of reading comprehension is par for the course.  Raiders have never shown any consideration for other points of view.  Its always some spiel about how anyone can join a raiding guild, even casually....blah....blah....blah.  Once again, we don't want to raid, we want our play style to be rewarded.  We want the developers to realize that raiding is not and should not be the only avenue for loot progression.  Not only is the game currently only raid friendly at the end game, even when the expansion comes out, non-raiders will still have virtually no avenue outside of raiding in order to get the best gear.  Even the PvP gear is going to be substandard to raid gear.  Pretty ridiculous for a game that says you can PvP without raiding or PvE and be just as competitive, which is patently false.  We're sick and tired of developers fostering a caste system within a freaking game.  Our time investment is just as valueable as any raider's.

Raiders and non-raiders risk absolutely nothing but time in these games. I don't care what kind of death penaly they put in a game, it all boils down to time.  How can you possibly argue that a raider's time is more important than any other's?