I don't think the Vivox chat has gone live on Eve yet but it will be interesting to see what effects it has, if any, when it does become active.

In guilds or groups where everybody agrees to use voice this should add a lot of value.  I don't think though devs would allow voice chat in 'say' or 'shout' in local so we'll still be typing at least some of the time.

I remember CCP saying in the beginning that the Vivox system in Eve would have an additional cost if you decide to sign up to it.  Not sure how many people will be willing to pay extra for a service they already get via TS or Ventrillo.  Also roll players seem to prefer typing as it's easier to be in caracter.

People do not pursue voice chat because it is a feature.  They pursue voice chat specifically because it is not a feature, but a tool to act upon the game in a way that gives an advantage.  It is a metagaming solution to play problems, not a function of play in itself.

So what is that in layman's terms?  A guild on teamspeak or ventrillo can do the following things unavailable to the guild who doesn't use teamspeak, or ventrillo:

1)  Talk to their group to facilitate team play between members who are in a group.  Example: "More DPS on the purple mob."

2)  Talk to their guild who are logged in, but doing other things.  Example: "We need another cleric here Joe.  Are you done with those tradeskills?"

3)  Talk to their guild who are part of the same guild, but on different games.  Example: "We need another cleric here in WoW Joe.  Are you finished with what you were doing in EVE yet?"

4)  Keep secrets.  Example:  Joe types to someone, "You are such a good friend to us Stormbringer," and says to his guild on vent, "Stormbringer is such a dork, isn't he?"

5)  Keep in contact with people unrelated to games.  Example: "Hey Joe, are you coming with us to the dungeon?"  Joe replies, "nah, I don't have time for that, but I just wanted to hang out.  Is your sister around?"

6)  Metagaming coordination.  Example:  "Okay, here he comes, and he's only brought two friends.  Gary, James, Paul, Greg, and Joe, log in.  Fred and Michelle, stay behind, they seem to have built their templates in a way that counters your builds."

7)  Go around harassment rules.  Example:  "You #%@&*!  Go die, and I slept with your mother."  You may not see this as an advantage, but then again, it gives the TS/Vent users the privilege of talking badly, without oversight.

8)  Identification of the normally anonymous.  Example:  "Hey I know that voice from SWG...you were Joba Fatt, and you were an ass to me."  /kick Joba Fatt's new character from group.  /ban Jobba Fatt's IP from channel.  /ignore Joba Fatt in local.  Post about Joba Fatt's antics in a falme about his new character on the boards.

9)  Make deals that would be easily flagged as corrupt, outside of being tracked by the game providers.  Example:  "I heard you need some gold.  How much you want?  Here is my PayPal account."

10)  Have one central communications network for all of the guild's games, for all their players, for one fee.  Example:  "So we got ten guys in WoW now, five in CoH, twenty in EVE, sixteen in EQ2, four playing counterstrike, and two playing Rome: Total War."

This is the sort of power and advantage one can get over the game, when you use an independent broadband communications network.  I'm not even saying its right or wrong, but only commenting on how it is understandable why the desire for voice AP has nothing much to do with how "neat," and "cool" it is, from a design standpoint as a gameplay feature.

You see, unless Vivox understands how voice chat is used today, and why it is used today, they'll fail to provide an alternative that will be appealing to guilds...let alone us guys who stay away specifically because voice chat is integrated.

But this isn't even about the ones that don't use voice chat.  Vivox doesn't care about them anyway, so they'd best understand that unless they create a voice system that allows for all of the above needs to be met, no guild will abandon what they have, and the ones who do pick up Vivox will find out very quickly how much less useful it really is.  I mean, do you really think Mr. Sharma, that your average player actually cares about your "neat feature," if by adopting it, they compromise their ability to metagame?

The truth is, its not a game feature, and the few who have tried to make it a feature have discovered that the ones who depend upon it don't really care how "cool" it is if it prevents metagaming options, and the ones who don't like voice chat saw it as an imposition.  Nobody really "likes" voice ap in itself.  They like it only because it is a very useful tool for manipulating the game to the advantage of the user.

Which is why I predict Vivox will fail.  They fail to see that people are not using voice chat because it enhances the game.  They use voice chat because it gives them power to manipulate the game in ways that an integrated system could never do.  Todays gamer, and today's clan are not in the business of pursuing "neat" technologies because they are "neat."  They pursue useful technologies, because they are useful.

---

Originally posted by Beatnik59

People do not pursue voice chat because it is a feature.  They pursue voice chat specifically because it is not a feature, but a tool to act upon the game in a way that gives an advantage.  It is a metagaming solution to play problems, not a function of play in itself.

In my experience most people use voice chat because it's just easier to communicate that way. Most people can talk much faster than they can type. It also reduces the l33t sp3ak that goes on, as most anyone who actually uses l33tspeak when they talk is generally called out for the moron that they are.

So what is that in layman's terms?  A guild on teamspeak or ventrillo can do the following things unavailable to the guild who doesn't use teamspeak, or ventrillo:

1)  Talk to their group to facilitate team play between members who are in a group.  Example: "More DPS on the purple mob."

Can be done just as easily with in game text chat, but it is slower.

2)  Talk to their guild who are logged in, but doing other things.  Example: "We need another cleric here Joe.  Are you done with those tradeskills?"

Uh...what's guild chat again?

3)  Talk to their guild who are part of the same guild, but on different games.  Example: "We need another cleric here in WoW Joe.  Are you finished with what you were doing in EVE yet?"

Xfire anyone?

4)  Keep secrets.  Example:  Joe types to someone, "You are such a good friend to us Stormbringer," and says to his guild on vent, "Stormbringer is such a dork, isn't he?"

And the reason you can't already do this with tells/guild chat is?

5)  Keep in contact with people unrelated to games.  Example: "Hey Joe, are you coming with us to the dungeon?"  Joe replies, "nah, I don't have time for that, but I just wanted to hang out.  Is your sister around?"

Again Xfire what?

6)  Metagaming coordination.  Example:  "Okay, here he comes, and he's only brought two friends.  Gary, James, Paul, Greg, and Joe, log in.  Fred and Michelle, stay behind, they seem to have built their templates in a way that counters your builds."

Again, could be done using IRC or Xfire. Voice is just more efficient.

7)  Go around harassment rules.  Example:  "You #%@&*!  Go die, and I slept with your mother."  You may not see this as an advantage, but then again, it gives the TS/Vent users the privilege of talking badly, without oversight.

Most TS/Vent servers would have thier own admins, which could deal with said asshats appropriately.

8)  Identification of the normally anonymous.  Example:  "Hey I know that voice from SWG...you were Joba Fatt, and you were an ass to me."  /kick Joba Fatt's new character from group.  /ban Jobba Fatt's IP from channel.  /ignore Joba Fatt in local.  Post about Joba Fatt's antics in a falme about his new character on the boards.

Uh, kharma's a bitch?

9)  Make deals that would be easily flagged as corrupt, outside of being tracked by the game providers.  Example:  "I heard you need some gold.  How much you want?  Here is my PayPal account."

again just as easy to do this through text-based means.

10)  Have one central communications network for all of the guild's games, for all their players, for one fee.  Example:  "So we got ten guys in WoW now, five in CoH, twenty in EVE, sixteen in EQ2, four playing counterstrike, and two playing Rome: Total War."

And this is bad how?

This is the sort of power and advantage one can get over the game, when you use an independent broadband communications network.  I'm not even saying its right or wrong, but only commenting on how it is understandable why the desire for voice AP has nothing much to do with how "neat," and "cool" it is, from a design standpoint as a gameplay feature.

It's a tool that facilitates communication within a guild/corp/group of friends. Talking is inherently easier for most people than typing. There are many people who can't type 80 wpm or has to look at the keyboard while typing. Being able to just speak instead of taking your eyes off the screen, or having the conversation go by while you were typing a reply is going to make it easier to pay attention to what is happening in the game.

You see, unless Vivox understands how voice chat is used today, and why it is used today, they'll fail to provide an alternative that will be appealing to guilds...let alone us guys who stay away specifically because voice chat is integrated.

They have already said that there should be the ability to connect to voice even when you're not in game. It's user/password based so as long as you have an account you can log in and chat. As far as those who stay away because of voice chat. I count you and dialup users, who only stay away because their connections can't handle voice and that number is rapidly dwindling as more users have broadband available to them.

But this isn't even about the ones that don't use voice chat.  Vivox doesn't care about them anyway, so they'd best understand that unless they create a voice system that allows for all of the above needs to be met, no guild will abandon what they have, and the ones who do pick up Vivox will find out very quickly how much less useful it really is.  I mean, do you really think Mr. Sharma, that your average player actually cares about your "neat feature," if by adopting it, they compromise their ability to metagame?

The truth is, its not a game feature, and the few who have tried to make it a feature have discovered that the ones who depend upon it don't really care how "cool" it is if it prevents metagaming options, and the ones who don't like voice chat saw it as an imposition.  Nobody really "likes" voice ap in itself.  They like it only because it is a very useful tool for manipulating the game to the advantage of the user.

And who is this nobody you speak of? Have I met him? Last time I checked most people like voice chat because it's easier to communicate than typing. It has nothing to do with metagaming.

Which is why I predict Vivox will fail.  They fail to see that people are not using voice chat because it enhances the game.  They use voice chat because it gives them power to manipulate the game in ways that an integrated system could never do.  Todays gamer, and today's clan are not in the business of pursuing "neat" technologies because they are "neat."  They pursue useful technologies, because they are useful.

Most people in my clan use voice to actually talk to the people we group with, to get a better idea of the person they are that you can't convey through text chat. And because it's nice to hear a human voice on the other end of these virtual characters, nothing more. 

---

You can attack me, but you can't attack the reasoning.

If I am allowed to get away with something on TS or Vent, that I won't be able to get away with on Vivox's system, then I'd be a fool to go to Vivox's system.  First, because I end up nerfing myself, and secondly, I'm going to have to compete against others who would rather have a useful tool, than a tool that sacrifices usefulness for "cuteness."

You mentioned that a lot of this can be done with Vivox + Xfire or IRC.  What is the real point though when you can do it all on TS/Vent, and not need Xfire or IRC?

Yes, I personally don't like voice chat.  But this isn't about me, as much as it is about what voice chat does for those who use it now, and the usefulness of it to those that depend on it in ways that Vivox is unable to facilitate.  An independent voice IP system is just a better tool, and it is better simply because it exists independent of the game.

By the way, most of the arguments for independent voice servers over this integrated stuff from Vivox has come from those on the EVE forums.