Best article he has done to date.

It never ceases to amaze me how "adult" and "mature" mean sex + violence, as opposed to, for example, complexity and depth. Oh well, I'm a European, so I'm pretty sure that I will never really understand you yanks anyway.

I will say one thing though: crying blue murder every time a computer game shows some skin (or blood), while at the same time most of your average rap music videos have more p0rn in them than all computer games to date combined, plus lyrics that glorify violence, seems a bit strange to me; yet kids can watch those as much as they like. Or they can watch your army kill people for real in Iraq. Not pointing fingers here, just saying the stuff is already out there.

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Originally posted by Theutus
Responsible perants censor what they don't want their children to see on TV using channel locks and such.

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Originally posted by Jade6

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Originally posted by Theutus
Responsible perants censor what they don't want their children to see on TV using channel locks and such.

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Doesn't that pretty much eliminate everything that's on TV?

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I think Dan is quite right to suggest that the mature content in AoC will be to add a 'grittier' feel to the game.  Robert E. Howard's world was brutal to say the least, very much reminiscent of darwinian theories (survival of the fittest) and of the Neitzsche style of brutally realistic cynicism.  Making a cosy, cuddly version to tone it down and make it acceptable to parents would not do this world justice and would alienate another group of customers anyway.  Not sure if CPI (Conan Properties International) has had any influence on the mature rating or not but the Conan fans would be 'none-too-chuffed' I imagine.

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Originally posted by Cowinspace
As someone already said adult/mature does not equal gore, graphic nudity and foul language. It is in fact the exact opposite as most of these 'mature' games only really appeal to kids.

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As Cowinspace posts, I agree, I think the mature content label would have the effect of appealing more to young teenage boys than any other demographic group that play MMO's and the issue, as Dan quite rightly raises, is:

How can you be sure that someone on the other side of an internet connection is in fact an adult if they are determined to play?

It will be interesting to see the effects of the mature rated games.

I sort of agree with Vociferor in that I think teenagers would be more drawn to something that is a little risquee than they would to something with a 3+ tag. But at the same time I've always been very anti-corporate censorship and don't think something should be removed just to appease the wig-wearing old-school 90-year-old bureaucrats - after all, they're not the majority market here.

The fantasy genre has always been about buxom wenches wearing very little and musclebound guys running about in a loincloth waving a sword around. You can't have weapons without violence, and a fantasy game without weapons isn't living up to what people want from the genre.

So release whatever product you want, stick an advisory label on it (T or 16+ or whatever the ESRB uses these days) and see what happens. I think more people will be turned away by inaccurate or unbelievable content than they would by a bit of wanton violence. On the other hand, if it's just gore for the sake of gore then it's a bit pointless.

As for trying to figure out the real age of the person at the other end of the connection? That's not the company's problem. If the store sells a game without asking for proof of age, then the parents allow their child to use their credit card without asking what it's for, then they have absolutely no comeback if that child then has nightmares or needs therapy. I'm of the school who believes parents should be responsible for their own children - is that silly?

And don't even get me started on the whole issue of "Oh, little Johnny was such a good little boy until he played <violent game>, then he broke into our shed and shot up the town," Grrr...

When questions like this are raised I always give the same answer.  Time will tell.  Lets revive this thread 3 months after AoC is released and see if flesh of a bare or bloodied nature has had an effect on the gameplay and general enjoyment.  Much easier to reflect on the past than guess the future.

Flesh is fine as long as the gameplay and atmosphere is also of sufficient quality.  Boredom will soon set in otherwise.

If we are going to have adult MMPORPG's then I would love to see something along the lines of GTA rather than the already crowded market pertaining to Sword and Sorcery titles.

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Originally posted by Dajmin

I sort of agree with Vociferor in that I think teenagers would be more drawn to something that is a little risquee than they would to something with a 3+ tag. But at the same time I've always been very anti-corporate censorship and don't think something should be removed just to appease the wig-wearing old-school 90-year-old bureaucrats - after all, they're not the majority market here.

The fantasy genre has always been about buxom wenches wearing very little and musclebound guys running about in a loincloth waving a sword around. You can't have weapons without violence, and a fantasy game without weapons isn't living up to what people want from the genre.

So release whatever product you want, stick an advisory label on it (T or 16+ or whatever the ESRB uses these days) and see what happens. I think more people will be turned away by inaccurate or unbelievable content than they would by a bit of wanton violence. On the other hand, if it's just gore for the sake of gore then it's a bit pointless.

As for trying to figure out the real age of the person at the other end of the connection? That's not the company's problem. If the store sells a game without asking for proof of age, then the parents allow their child to use their credit card without asking what it's for, then they have absolutely no comeback if that child then has nightmares or needs therapy. I'm of the school who believes parents should be responsible for their own children - is that silly?

And don't even get me started on the whole issue of "Oh, little Johnny was such a good little boy until he played , then he broke into our shed and shot up the town," Grrr...

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Hehe, don't get me wrong Dajmin, I didnt mean that I thought the game was going to warp kid's minds or that it would be FC's fault if kids play the game.  You're quite right to say that it is the responsibility of a child's guardians as to what they are exposed to or playing.

What I meant is that it is all really academic when it comes to the age rating of the game.   

As you quite rightly suggest, it is completely ridiculous to suggest that it could be enforced with any accountability put upon the company.  Also, Impossible to regulate with any reasonable degree of assurance unless the child has strict, technology savvy and attentitive guardians. 

On the other hand though, after giving it some more thought, why are FC making a big deal out of this fact now? 

Being obligated under law (not even sure what obligations there are with this regard) to have the game rated is one thing but the game is not a finished project yet and I assume that closer to the release date it will be given to the relevant body(ies) to place the final age limit(s)/warning(s) on the game.  I'm pretty sure the game hasnt gone into open beta yet so the age verification part isnt going to be a big deal or a legal obligation just now.  

So what is the number 1 most likely reason as to why, for a considerable length of time now, FC have been claiming it will be a mature rating?  I suspect it is probably to hype it up and keep teenage boys interested while they anticipate the release.

But to give some impartiality to my view: 

Another possibility could be that they released the information so that they do not disappoint anyone who will be under the age threshold of the game by waiting till nearer the release date to announce the mature rating.  Personally, I don't buy that side of the coin though.

I'm a 24 year old red blooded young male and the mature rating will not be one of the reasons that makes me try AoC if I do, as Dan said, you can only decapitate someone so many times before it loses the appeal.  I can't speak for everyone my sex/age but that is my view.

I was a little unclear as to why the age verification was an issue to me.  This should have explained it a bit better for me.  I just don't see what the point in it is as it is largely un-enforcable.  Placing age restrictions on online games will have even less of an impact than age restrictions on movies.  Just a token gesture, I guess, that FC seem to be exploiting for additional advertising in my opinion.

I would pay GOOD money for a server that had an age restriction on it...25+ sounds like a good number to start with :)

Seriously though, In the long run the advisory stickers really don't do much to keep kids from buying a game.  Most parents are not even aware of such things until they hear about them on CNN or the nightly news...ie Grand Theft Auto.  The shock value of the content will initially wear off then you are left with one thing...do you have a good game or not.  Regardless of the age of the player that is what will keep them paying every month. 

I applaud the makers of AOC for taking this step, now how it is implemented and what steps they take to insure that the population is who they want it to be will be interesting to see.

I find it interesting that most games rated as "mature" are not all that appealing to those who possess true maturity. Maturity, to me, is a measure of a person's ability to relate to the world while still remaining independent and choosing their own path. Immaturity, conversely, is what I see as a general lack of faith in oneself and a tendency to follow the whims of whatever social crowd that person is drawn to. Mature subject matter may very well involve acts of sex, violence and profanity, but does so in the context of a larger message, one that is ultimately redeeming to the human beings receiving it. I would love to see more TRULY mature games on the market, games that you might want to restrict younger children from playing, simply because they have not evolved past the parroting stage of their development and are not yet able to make conscious choices or be moved by the more subtle messages that mature content might offer when viewed in the context of the medium. This is more the failure of the culture involved that tries to shield children from "taboo" subjects and convince them that any contact with such things is unequivocably bad. Education needs to take place, and at some point, it needs to be done with more mature content, as eventually children will become young adults and begin asking difficult questions where the answers are not always clear-cut or pretty. MMOGs have the ability to provide some of that education, and I, for one, would like to see a company take a mature rating seriously and start providing more than visceral content to warrant an "M."

If one mentions things is a rant about overt bloodyness and nudity and whatever trying to appeal to the M rated crowd and also mentions a specific game like Age of Conan, one should also include a little context.

Though nothing overt was said negatively, from some of the posts here I think some people are lumping AoC into the egregious/gratuitous M content crowd, and that really doesn't apply.

In fact the only way to stay true to the Hyboria of Robert E. Howard is by having it be a gritty, lusty, brutal, savage, amoral world.

And the fact they Funcom has done that, so far as we can tell up till now (we'll see what happens in game), without either going over the top and getting all "Second Life" cyber nor dumbing it down ala the Conan movies, gives it a special place in the M rated catagory, as it is truly M=FOR ADULTS, not M=for grown up teenagers.