How is it that this is not the longest running debate in Business history. The young is trying to make a name for himself, the old is trying to hold on tho the name he created in his years on the job. Hmmmm.

So the problem, the young has good strong ideas that cost money and may or may not be the answer in the old guys eyes. The old is supposed to have, or thinks he is supposed to have all the answers, or is paid to have all the answers.

So the solution to the debate is the balance. If they both understand their roles, and points of view, it is remarkably easy. Old timer, you are no longer the smartest guy in the building, you want to think so but it is not true, if it is true you have done a bad job hiring. Young guy you may be one of the smartest guys in the building, but not the wisest, unless you are truely elite, and there are probably parts of the picture you are not looking at.

Old guy, you are supposed to manage your talent, part of that management is to explain why so he can use the information at a later date and refrain from asking a similar question in the future.( Oh and get them to wright the code cuz it will get done faster)Young guy, I know this will be hard but you have to listen to what the old guy is telling you, i know sometimes they dont always say what they mean and it seems like they change their minds allot, but so will you when you are old.Find the hidden code!!!!that will make you uber!!

And young guy one last bit, sometimes the old guys no matter how wrong they are are still right, even if it makes no sense to anyone but the old guy, and even if later they realize they were wrong and change it to the way you wanted it to begin with, but just different enough not to be the same. You have to give them that because when you are old you will need it and the young guys will give it to you. Or you will fire them.

Oh and young dude the old guy is not you peer, so dont talk to him like he is, it's rude and insensitive, old guys are sensitive.Oh and old guy watch out for the Aggro emotions of the young guy they still work on the FFE plan.

Fight it, F*&k it, or eat it.

PSSSFFFFTTTT!!!! Debate over I win.I take donations for my counciling services, too.Beta keys excepted.

Friendly Disagreement > Unanimous Agreement > Unfriendly Disagreement

Debate within a development team helps the development. It breeds ideas. The best you can do for a game is bring as many major conflicting opinions as you can into a team and make them get along. If you can manage to do that -- and it is extraordinarily difficult -- you have a recipe for something great that will improve with age (see: EVE) rather than deteriorate (see: Galaxies).

Like the gene pool.

The title should be 'Vangaurd: Saga of Heroes: Arrogance v. Wisdom: Dev Debate'

Real men don't have to puff up their chests and stand on their tippy toes to look big and manly.  When grasshopper learns this lesson, he will  have matured a little.

Well, they are also at opposite jobs.

The tech guy has to make sure the game is functional, that it work.  If you listen too much to this guy, you will end up with PONG with maybe an extra feature.  It will run smoothly, very nicely, no lag, and the server will be able to support millions of players, lagfree.

The Designer has to make these guys work harder.  They have to find the stuff that will make this game cool and better, they basically have to figure what features and what aspect they can manage to get the older folks to accept to program and make functional.

Without the tech guys, I don't think the Designer can make much of a game at all, it will be all sweet and cool...in his head.  However, the best techs put together give results similar to what Microsoft do...and Microsoft isn't exactly earthbreaking in terms of interesting gameplays.

Basically, if we have to sums it up, the Designer have to find/figure/design a way to make sure the tech guys make an awesome game that will be a great success.  The Tech guy, he is the very core of what make the game...however, he needs support, because techies despite having awesome qualities, often fail at understand how to make the gameplay more interesting, cool...

To make the techies smile, the best designer on earth is prolly to drunk to care!  Which is a lot worser then the techies working for MS! 

This is too cute

Sounds like the Sigil team are having a ball of friendly teasing contests at work. The best working atsmophere is one where you can get things done but adopting the philosophy that life's ment to have some fun in it

So this is Derek's FIRST job? that guys gotta be the luckiest SOB I've heard of. Got a ticket through college and a seat right in the industry he's been dreaming of. Others like myself however have gotta pay our way through college and cross our fingers that our 3rd or 4th job tittle invovles something in the industry we've been looking for. Congrats to him I supposed I must say

-Quote-

"...the one I've played the most is Everquest. I started playing in middle school, but playing became hard after my parents found out that I preferred EQ to homework."

Lol same.  I started eq in 7th grade when it came out and my parents from that point on began taking away computer/power cables/blocking ip adress every time they got mad at me.

At the same time i ahve to ask, how old is derek then? I started EQ in 7th grade and im 19 now.. did he start working at sigil when he was 20? lol

Having been the 'old guy' in several Unix Sys Admin shops, it was great fun to read the article and the thread.  There are two more very important reasons for the mix of old and new.  The new kids keeps all us old farts on our toes!  And second, one of the greatest rewards I've ever received, while working, was mentoring the next generation and watching them grow up!  The new blood must come in and take up the slack!

Sign me,

Happily Retired!

this made me laugh.

As some one starting a 3 year degree in video computer games at the ripe old age of 37 it also gives me a glimmer of hope that I too will find my niche in the industry.

More discussions like this please and sorry but I gave Vanguard a hard time on a post and feel a bit guilty now! Just fed up of class based fantasy games...but I am sure Vanguard will rock as big as WoW! }:)

LMAO! Sigl is my fav. dev team now! I mean lol... I would love so much to meet those guys. Just check employee spotlight. If guys can joke like that... I'm sure Vanguard will be a good game.

to all people that make Sigl

Production costs money and the longer production go's on the more money it cost im not a geinius to point that out. I have see alot of great Ideas for games come along and then see them canned simply because they became too expensive to make or other games came out on the market that attracted players attention so that the great games that are still indevelopement simply got forgotten about or rushed through developement so that when the game comes out it's so buged and unplayerble people simply give up playing it. We can continiue to put lots of great features and content into a game untill the world ends but it has to be decided when you have enough of a game that is different and more inetevive enough than there is currently on the market.

So its got to be considered even though something seems like a great idea youve got to decide " is this going to add too much time and money into the developement" , "are people going to wait that long for it to be developed ". I really like the look of this game and it do's have alot of really good ideas and i cant wait to play it . Which is what allot of people will be thinking also. There is always room for more Idears and content but I think it is best usesd in after sale's production in the form of monthly updates and expantions.

i am so much in favorite of ryan's arguments i could come over there to pull some ears myself!

there is a reason  older programmers need to do things in specific ways. This involves stability, workflow, cost/time analysis and so much more.  A leading character in the industry will be of course able to analyize, estimate and if approved, implement a new idea,  safe route or ever re-design that a young puppy would suggest. In this way both characters would work exaclty "as itended" as far as their ceo manager mind is concerned.

to younger ppl : be alerted, learn as much as you can and dont RUSH. when your opinion is asked, state your answer assertively. When you THINK you have a great idea and want to suggest it, try first an "inner debate" and then share it with your colleagues. Your skills and maturity then will be widely recognized.

cheers all, anxious to start playing with your baby !!

//altair arch engineer dplg.

      Having a hard time understanding why Vanguard has this linked on their site... definitely not the kind of positive hoo-ha they throw around.