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9/20/06 3:21:40 PM#126
[quote]Originally posted by jonaku Vengeful's quote in no way addresses the issue. All it does is describe how responsibilities are split between SOE and Sigil. yes its a possibility jonaku, just like it is possible that someday you might give up on your ant-soe crusade, however unlikely but it could happen. this is a busniess....do you really expect them to guarantee you that they will never sell their company? you are not being realistic, not only do you want the game to be catered just for you....but you want them to guarantee you that they will never sell their company, a company and a game they created not you....how selfish is that? |
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9/20/06 3:22:04 PM#127
Jonaku, unlike you, I am somewhat interested in Vanguard. I like the idea of the large zoneless world with flying mounts and meaningful travel. However, i'm a refugee from preCU SWG, witnessing the horrors first-hand of SOE's CU and NGE. To be honest, I really can't go through that again. The idea of spending all this time and effort customizing my character, and building friendships and a guild, and then to see SOE destroy it not just once but twice with no real advance notice... boy... it was ugly. My guild blew up. All our loot was rendered useless. My buddy list went from 100+ people online over the weekend to 2. Ghost towns.... Anyways, my point is this. I am a little spooked at the idea of playing Vanguard for a year, then out of the blue, SOE buys Sigil and proceeds to ruin Vanguard like they did SWG. If there IS a quote from Aradune saying that he would never sell Sigil to SOE, that would give me more comfort. |
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9/20/06 3:58:58 PM#128
Jonaku, unlike you, I am somewhat interested in Vanguard. I like the idea of the large zoneless world with flying mounts and meaningful travel. However, i'm a refugee from preCU SWG, witnessing the horrors first-hand of SOE's CU and NGE. To be honest, I really can't go through that again. The idea of spending all this time and effort customizing my character, and building friendships and a guild, and then to see SOE destroy it not just once but twice with no real advance notice... boy... it was ugly. My guild blew up. All our loot was rendered useless. My buddy list went from 100+ people online over the weekend to 2. Ghost towns.... Anyways, my point is this. I am a little spooked at the idea of playing Vanguard for a year, then out of the blue, SOE buys Sigil and proceeds to ruin Vanguard like they did SWG. If there IS a quote from Aradune saying that he would never sell Sigil to SOE, that would give me more comfort. So what fi he did sell to SOE why do you expect SOE to make that mistake again? It was a one time thing. You didn't see them do this in any of their other games. I can see how SOE's mistake hurt a lot of gamers trust in their work, but crap you guys act like they pimped you all out to a circus of homosexual S&M clowns...I can't see how them messing up one game has ruined everyones lives. You would think they ran over your dog and laughed at you about it. I can see they disappointed you guys, but get off the SOE killed my jedi rampage and have a little forgivness. Hell they nerfed my necro in EQ1 years ago, but I didn't cry about it. Leader of Twisted Knights |
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matraque
Hard Core Member
Joined: 11/10/05
If i''m paying a monthly fee, i demand an unfinished game! |
9/20/06 3:59:28 PM#129
Yep. And for absolute clarity, that is not an ad placed by us, but text placed by them on their cover and then they do their own preview of the game inside the mag. Thank god i still had that mag in my bathroom ;) |
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9/20/06 5:51:12 PM#130
wow jonaku, thats inventive trolling. link to your OWN post about an issue and act like its the gospel truth because it was on the forum. once again, i have to ask. What are YOU personally getting out of the negativity you show towards vangaurd. You are very very intent that noone plays this game. WHY? |
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9/20/06 5:55:32 PM#131
WOOT!!! STICKIED!!!!! That's gotta Irk Jonaku, lmao..... I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!! In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
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9/21/06 3:49:04 AM#132
Well, I will try out open beta, if it comes. Any hint when this will be the case? My most sceptical point above all is corpse run. I must admit freely I hate the idea. I am a spontaneous player; I log when I want and then do what opportunity offers. I dont like to play my gaming week or even month. My RL has anough timed obligations, so my hobby should be free of schedules. Complicated quests and especially corpse runs just cut out of my limited time too much, in my percerption. Playing spontaneous means most groups I join are ragtag groups not planned encounters, which means higher probability to die because of other people's idiocy than in planned groups. I just lack the time and also will to subjugate myself to daily plans in a MMO. So I fear I may die often, which is ok in itself, but plus corpse runs the netto time of fun I have just gets too small. Thats a simple math for me. So corpse run = no Vanguard. I dont want 50% of my meager, carefully saved rl time to sacrifice for corpse runs I must do because of others stupidity.
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9/21/06 5:03:27 AM#133
i think that you have a good idea in trying it for yourself when it is closer to release like in beta4/5. i know they are still tweaking the death system even as we speak and from what i know it will not be as bad as people think. i know at first the death system was pretty tedious and i know its gotten alot better since then because of the player feedback. so hopefully by then they will have that worked out and you will have a good idea how the death system will work. |
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9/21/06 3:43:29 PM#134
dam i am redy for this game to come out! i have been from the first day i looked it up after a eq2 friend told me about it. i am going with the limited edition to get the extra stuff!
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9/21/06 5:58:35 PM#135
To those criticizing people for posting negative things about the game (i.e. "why post here if you don't like it") : I certainly do not know the motivation of each individual doing so. However, there are a few reasons I am glad they do so in general: - World War 2 Online - Anarchy Online - Asheron's Call 2 - SW: G - others I'm too lazy to recall If I had only listened to fanbois of those titles, I would have wasted a couple hundred dollars, money that was successfully spent at fast-food establishments, and /or stuffed in various G-Strings and thongs. In other words (without making any judgements at all on what anyone has said) some of us do appreciate hearing the negative impressions of people, as well as the positive. Yes, even before the game is out. Ever notice how you can smell a dumpster without getting in and rolling in the trash? And most of us are quite capable of separating flames from legitimate concerns. To me, the concept of buying something, and then deciding if I like it, is laughable. If I'm spending money on something, rest assured I am reasonably confident I am going to like it (see: G-strings) With that said, I would add that Vanguard seems to be something I would enjoy, and I will most likely be playing it next year. I will, however, check others' opinions (pos & neg) time to time to continue to make my decision. I hope we all find a MMO to enjoy (and not waste any money) and I do sincerely wish VG the best of success. (Only made it through 8 pages of the thread, this is not intended as an attack on, or support for anyone in particular) Stikato UO/EQ/DAoC/EvE |
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9/21/06 6:42:09 PM#136
http://www.silkyvenom.com/pages/faq.php?faqid=791 A few quotes in there basically repeating that they have no intention of selling to SOE. If you follow up on the game enough to understand that they have 5+ years of content planned out for it already you can well imagine that they have no intention of selling the game that they plan to continue developing. Go figure. ;) |
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9/21/06 6:52:10 PM#137
Think what you want of Vanguard while it's in development--no one here's going to be making a decision to buy (or not buy) the game for several months, anyhow. Whether the game succeeds or goes on to be just another lukewarm title remains to be seen. I'm the CM of a Vanguard community site, but I have nothing to gain by blowing smoke up anyone's skirt. A lot of the criticisms people have about Vanguard just go to support what Brad McQuaid said: "Vanguard won't be for everyone." If it's not your cup o' capuccino, then don't drink it--simple as that. What I don't get, though, is why people would comdemn McQuaid for coming here to answer questions and clear up misconceptions about the game. You may not agree with him, but I think it shows enthusiasm for the title and concern for the gamers who might consider playing it. Is it a PR tactic of sorts? Sure. But what sort of CEO of a development company would want their game to fly under the radar? Unfortunately, I think maybe Brad's attempt to "win friends and influence people" where Vanguard is concerned probably backfires on him more often than it succeeds. Still, I see no reason to trash the man for trying. .: Shayalyn :. |
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anarchyart
 Novice Member
Joined: 8/12/04
"I feel sorry for people who don't drink: that's the best they'll feel all day." |
9/21/06 7:01:05 PM#138
I am right there with you at times, and for those times there will always be games for us. For those saturdays when we get to play all day though, there is Vanguard! 
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9/21/06 7:14:23 PM#139
1) Posting negative things that have an actual basis for being made, aka based on official info, based on actual gameplay experience etc. 2) Posting negative things that are speculative but logically reasonable, but still presented as speculation with afore mentioned supporting logic. 3) Posting negative things that are speculative but asserting them as "truths". 4) Posting negative things that have no merrit/value. While all of this is to a degree judged by the person reading, the main point of many of the people trying to get official info out to people is so that they can in fact make a better informed decision. Making negative logical arguments and negative comments that are soundly based on current actual info also help people make a better decision so long as they are given appropriate context. The concern is that many of the negative comments are based on nothing, or are assumptions presented as truths. This does not help someone make a good decision. I would like to belive that if Jonk and friends consistantly stuck to making reasonable assertions or ones based on up to date info that they would not be considered little more than trolls at this point. However the moment someone tries to direct a person to any good source of official and up to date info team jonku seems compelled to try and flush it down with negative comments many of which are either blatently false or poorly presented. This by itself would lend most people to believe that they do not want people to read actual game info. And that makes it VERY HARD to give any respect to their opinions. Don't get me wrong, some of their assertions do in fact have merrit. But some of it does not and some of it directly contradicts actual known info. On "vanboi" side of things, yes there are some positive posts that as the equivalant of saying "I love VG even though I haven't played it no matter what!" Which also doesn't exactly help inform someone if they have a chance of enjoying the game. But when the term "vanboi" is thrown at someone for making a logical positive statement that is little more than saying "I don't have a decent responce so I'll just flame you". Or trying to discredit a reasonable statment because a person's post count "isn't high enough". I personally would not choose to preorder an MMO without getting considerably more info. There is A TON of info about VG already out there, but that is not the same thing as playing the game itself close to release. Beta 5 the NDA comes down and pretty much everyone will get a chance to see much of VG first hand. Even then the game will still be getting polished and will go through changes to release. But I think most of us will get a good feel for if it's worth dropping a monthly chunk of change on at that point. In regards to the "NDA violation" game, trying to qualify a person who breaks NDA for better or for worse is rediculous. Some of us may be already testing or personally know someone testing beta. But only we know who we are so it still comes back to working on getting people easy access to official info and letting them make up their own minds about things. And even then, it's beta. Beta d/not = release. That is where following the dev posts to get a feel for what they are shooting for is quite possibly the best route to making an informed decision. You get a feel for what they want the game to be on release day. So far I agree with most of the dev logic and goals. Enough that I am quite interested to see how it plays out and continue to follow the game development. I still won't make any "purchase decision" until playing beta 5 very close to launch. But that's my choice. ;) |
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9/22/06 4:21:04 AM#140
So I stop coming for about a week and we got this, I started to read post by post in this thread to see what's going on, so finally brad meets jonaku A.K.A the Utnayan at mmorpg.com, hehe.
 For now is good to see the participation from the developers in this community, anyway welcome Aradune. Dimitrio Darkblade |
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9/22/06 9:53:08 PM#141
I agree with most of this post, except for the last paragraph. I don't see Mr. McQ's vocal support of Vanguard as a "backfire". Just the opposite, it seems as though his passion, enthusiasm and willingness to patiently answer questions for fans and critics alike, is successful most of the time. In fact, many of the Vanguard doubters, even if they remain unconvinced, often comment on his willingness to communicate. His honesty and candor is especially refreshing, coming from someone in his position. |
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9/23/06 11:29:48 AM#142
Vanguard is new to me... just discovered it today while reading about a similar title I've been following (Hero's Journey) and saw a comparison to Vanguard so I thought I'd check it out. The first thing I did was look at the screen shots and (limited) movies available. My initial impression was "hmm looks a lot like EQ2 graphics wise" (which incidentally I've never been a fan of). Then I went to the forums, found this thread, and read this: Heard that the game only looks like EQ2 +? False Now I'm not one to judge a game until I've tried it first-hand, but seeing stuff like this sure throws up some red flags for me having been burned by sooo many titles promising one thing and delivering another. Anyway, I'll check on Vanguard periodically, hopefully get to try open beta, and then be able to make a decision, but as it stands now... I'm skeptical. MMO games would be pretty cool if it weren't for the people. |
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9/24/06 2:15:15 PM#143
It doesn't look like EQ2. They use more colors than brown and gray. |
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Aradune
Sigil Games CEO
Joined: 4/19/05
All that it takes for evil to prevail is for good to do nothing. |
It doesn't look like EQ2. They use more colors than brown and gray. I think it's a lot more than that :) Characters: http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/2940/elves7qn.jpg Screenshots -- look down a few rows especiallly at the jungle. http://www.vanguardsoh.com/screenshots.php Movie Guide: http://vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70905 The 'brow and grey' is old school criticism. Exagerated, but true to some extent before we got our world lighting where we wanted it to be. But hasn't been true in months. I encourage you to do some research :) -- -------------------------------------------------------------- |
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9/25/06 11:45:28 PM#145
Oh come on! It may not look like EQ2 but it surely looks like EQ3 would have. Heck, in some Videos I even thought they just took the EQ2 engine! I liked EQ2, but I had hoped a 2006/2007 engine would show something MORE than what we see. Other areas in the videos linked by that Sigil CEO recently looked like they came from SWG terrain. Thats all not bad, I loved SWG and EQ2, but its SOME years behind I think.
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9/26/06 12:15:16 AM#146
years behind? care to link me a mmog that has up to date graphics in your opinion? you may not like vanguards style of graphics but it has the best graphics i have seen out of any mmog being developed or released IMO. when someone says that vanguards graphics are years behind that just tells me that they are looking for something to complain about because its obvious it isn't true. |
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9/26/06 6:34:13 PM#147
I'll reiterate, I knew nothing about Vanguard prior to a couple of days ago, so I don't have some personal agenda against the game, and my first impression was that it looked like EQ2 graphics. That's not a put-down as I know a lot of people like the EQ2 graphics, but don't tell me the sky's green when I can see for myself that it's blue. And for a link to a game with more "modern" graphics, try this one: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/setView/screens/gameID/199/setStart/1/SUNScreens.html MMO games would be pretty cool if it weren't for the people. |
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9/26/06 8:20:44 PM#148
LOL so you link me a game that is in early stages of development that has pretty screenshots (and i agree they are very pretty) but sorry to say that does not disprove my point, it reinforces it. if the gameplay and content of that game turn out to be anywhere near as good as vanguard as well as if the graphics actually turn out that good then you have one game with better graphics than vanguard....surly that would make vanguard "years behind" you may not like the style of vanguards graphics but it is not "years behind" not by a long shot. if it was years behind there would be multiple games in development and released with far greater graphics than vanguard and that is just not the case. also i never said you had anything against vanguard but i have noticed alot of times people look for things to complain about when they come to this forum because vanguard rivals their favorite game in development. not saying that is true in your case but it kind of came off that way with your original post i quoted, its just kind of silly to think vanguards graphics are not up to date IMO. if vanguards graphics are years behind then i guess the entire genre is years behind as well. edit: i just realized you are not the same person that i originally quoted, so disregard some of the stuff i wrote that does not apply to you... sorry for the confusion. |
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9/26/06 9:25:43 PM#149
Huh?! I thought the point was about graphic quality, not content. Here's your quote:
I gave you exactly what you asked for and of course you respond by playing the "content" card. That has nothing to do with the discussion of Vanguard's graphics. SUN is just one example of a game being developed that has what should be (IMO) what companies strive for in graphics. At least one would think a company trying to compete in this highly competitive genre would push the envelope of graphics quality. Oh, and in regard to following game titles, I learned a long time ago that companies are after one thing and one thing only.... your money. They'll only go as far as they believe necessary to get the maximum return on their investment. Sure it'd be nice to think a company's #1 concern is making the best game imaginable, but don't kid yourself, they have a quota. Obviously, it's in their best interest to make a great game as that brings in more money, but they aren't going to spend the funds (i.e. buying the best graphics designers in the business) just to build you a better game, when they can "get by" with less and still make a nice profit. Once you realize that, you learn to lower your expectations and not be disappointed when a game doesn't deliever the title they lead you to believe they were. MMO games would be pretty cool if it weren't for the people. |
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9/26/06 10:09:28 PM#150
the reason why i used the "content" card is because there are lots of these so called "games" that have amazing graphics with no real content, those screenshots are rendered to look that nice, if you want to nitpick and just judge by screenshots alone and not an actual game then fine...you found a game with better graphics than vanguard *rollseyes* just because of a game in early stages of development has pretty rendered screenshots does not mean it will have better graphics when all is said and done. and even if it did how demanding will the engine be? how much ram you going to need just to run a game like that with all the other people in the game with you? when sun is at the same phase of development as vanguard with multiple gameplay videos with those same pretty graphics i will eat my words. but I'm still lost for words why you even quoted me in the first place when i wasn't even replying to your post. are you implying that you agree that vanguards graphics are dated? and if so i think i already disproved your point, unless you can give me more than rendered screenshots or an actual game that is farther along in development or released. i have seen lots of screenshots from games that are still just a concept....to quote you "I learned a long time ago that companies are after one thing and one thing only.... your money." and i agree with that 100% that is why alot of so called "games" use rendered screenshots to falsely hype their game to make it look like a graphically beautiful game. BTW i am also in agreement not to get your expectations to high for any game, not really sure why you threw that in there. my point is that it is stupid that people complain about vanguard having dated graphics when there is nothing better released to this day or anything more than just a concept and a few rendered screenshots in development. it is nothing more than nitpicking a game that rivals your game witch i guarantee don't have the graphics vanguard has, unless we are talking about games that are still at a concept stage with pretty rendered screenshots, like sun....witch don't count IMO |
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