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9/09/06 3:36:24 PM#21
Nothing wrong with informed comment but... well... example. I don't like cars, don't drive, don't know anything about them. If I were to offer my opinion on a ferrari it wouldn't be much use to anyone. Postmortem Studios |
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9/10/06 11:43:33 AM#22
You people like the game, McHuberts and I don't like it. Simple as that. I canceled my subscription. The game is boring to me so much, I am literally falling asleep when playing. Community is great, people helpful, but that's all. It's just that some people CAN enjoy such type of game, but other cannot. |
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9/11/06 10:03:39 AM#23
It's not so much that there's a right way and a wrong way to play Ryzom. It's just that some people are never going to have fun without feeling like they are "beating the game" by reaching obvious signposts like levels and finishing major quests. And there are some people who are going to feel trapped in a game that is all about reaching those obvious signposts. It's not a problem. The answer is simple: they should play different games. I don't know why so many people apparently think that every game should accomodate every player. That sounds like there really should just be ONE game that everyone can play and enjoy, but as far as I can tell, every game has fans, and every game has detractors. Different players are looking for different things, and there's no reason that they should have to (or even WANT to) play together. It is quite possibly to play the standard MMO like EQ1, EQ2, or WoW in a sandbox fashion by logging on and just doing what you feel like or what you feel makes sense for your character (WWMTD? What Would My Toon Do?), but you're going to get a lot of unsolicited advice if you do, about how you could level faster or more efficiently, and about where and how you could be getting better gear. That's a pain, and it is annoying, if all you really want is to see what's over the next rise, and maybe make some friends with the same curious streak. |
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9/11/06 10:27:37 AM#24
Yeah, yeah, I don't have a clue. I was only born a few weeks ago. Never played a game before. Do not know what I am talking about. It is a sad thing that it is impossible to discuss the game, without getting flamed by the senior players of Ryzom. It is logical that you defend the game in which you have invested so much time, but I detect some tunnel vision. Never mind. I reviewed the game, cancelled my account and leave you guys in this forum, bashing everyone who has the slightest comment on your jem. :-) Well I know I'm not a senior player of Ryzom but I won't flame you for not liking the game and I'm sure plenty of the vets won't as well. You tried it, you didn't enjoy it, fair enough. Not every game is for everyone and not every sandbox game is for players that like that style of game. For example I don't enjoy EvE, although I respect CCP for what they've done with it. Some of the disagreement you got here was about specifc game details (like lack of clothing) where vets or other players can disagree without it being a flame though. Anyway, good luck and I hope you find the game your looking for. |
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9/19/06 3:52:37 PM#25
Hmm...
I left this game 2 years ago, im suprised it is going still i give it that it is one tough ol 'gal. I beta tested this game from closed beta test through to release at which point i quit and joined WoW. I have now since quit wow and for now mmorpgs alltogether. Im Suprised this age old argument still rages on. Ryzom community back in my day was great, really nice people. I personally got bored like other people of fighting kipee or whatever they were called even before they stopped the lvl bug (once upon a time if you spammed your ability long enough on a mob you would get 1 level up for its death :P). Back in my day they had produced some very basic quests that were quite difficult to complete (collect 60x lvl 120 material of this type etc etc)... These werent quests nor even tasks you'd want to do. Ryzom was a rushed game and has suffered from financial problems for a long time, it had huge potential and as an ex-beta fanboi It promised so much i followed the game for a year before it was released over huge battles and other features promised long ago. Its always been niche because it only can appeal to roleplayers... its a sandbox it has little to no content and its quests (did at least) have no real story or 'storyline' around them. Nothing to drag you into the lore of the world so to speak other than material on the website. Only those people who truly enjoy imagining alot of things like events will enjoy it. Its just different playstyles, I wasn't a 'role-player' die hard, but i played the game for a time because i got into the grind fest... and the community was great. Upon my leaving of the game i hadn't played the game for 2 months just logged into the chat program Klients... just for the community. In the end chat program wouldn't cut it for me and i quit. They were many things that as a beta tester I expected to see implemented, the progress was very slow and this was my farewell post listing the problems 2 years ago.... I bet some of them are still relevant now. And then you shall see why people don't like the game... because progress is incredibly slow, it has cool roleplaying staff but progress = bad. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well im giving SoR a break for 6 months or so, maybe when i come back itll be a game i want to play. Ive thought about this for over a month now and eventually i came to a decision.... There will be no trial period and as such i will base my purchase choice on beta experience. Ill go into my reasons for not playing SoR at release. 1. Im moving accomodation soon and its going to be a fair bit more money to stay at this new place so i need to save the pennies, of course i would have enough money if the other reasons werent present but this reason adds to the collective reasons anyways. 2. Ive played in beta since 2.3, ive played for 7 months and generally am growing tired. Over this time i have grinded and grinded loads, and also over time the reward for said grinding has diminished to such a point its depressing. 3. I originally entered Ryzom beta watching the Teasrer 1->4 videos which are still available. Back at that point ryzom was portrayed as something different but with the classic RPG system of Classes. Sure the classes werent just rogue,thief,warrror etc. Each race had its own 'type' of fighter, a type of wizard, a type of healer, a type of buff wizard, a type of harvester a type of ranged fighter. These classes were restricted such that a harvester couldnt be a good fighter etc. This is how i like RPG games to be. I.e a mage is weak and lacks Hps, a fighter is strong but lis only a meat shield and can use his weapon etc etc. Now a mage is not weak as he lvls fighting to gain hps. A mage is not a mage, there are no characters. If anything there is just one class for release people can play: Bomb Healer/Melee Fighter/Part time crafter/Part time harvester. U need nothing else. There can never be sole crafters or sole harvesters as a crafter needs money to lvl so must fight, a harvester needs hps to survive so must fight, a mage also needs more hps so must lvl fight. So for no 3 my reason is ryzom has changed from what i originally thought it would be. 4. Item System: The item system currently in SoR, For Me is bad. I like an item system where items are desirable and people want them. People go questing for days and months for one Godly Item that they can use to show off etc. In ryzom we have player made stuff in which we can vary minimally colour/sap(or hp) boosts. Sure other stats vary but in the end everyone wants the same type of armour just a different colour. There are no "Wizardbanes Crest", or "Great Yubos Prize" type items. Nothing to hunt for, nothing to make ure char look cool. 5. The entire spell system is repeatitive, cold 1->12, acid 1->12. With people using 3-4 spells throughout their entire game life. 6. There are at max 4 class trees, there are no social skills such as fishing, dancing,cooking,singing,bartender etc etc. Nothing to add to the game other than for people to fight constantly. There are also no items such as rejuvenation pots or anything like that. 7. I find using the whole GUI system cumbersome to use. Ive played other mmorpgs where the item spawns when a mob dies but on ryzom u have to actually click on the dead body and pull off the items u want. This takes about 4-5 clicks whereas it wouldve been much easier for it to fall to the ground, maybe this is to do with quartering and the fact nothing drops any items anyways. When selling items it takes forever as you click on the item and then have to click on another box which if u are selling different types of items can resize after every click.... This makes selling lots of junk take 20+ minutes. == not fun. 8. We will not be able to ride mektoubs at release, i know its a not a biggie but still we know the gms can use them so why cant we.. after all it was promised to us. 9. Currently the Guild Outposts missions havent been tested at all by the FBT team, i have never seen an outpost anything but rubble... So it leads me to believe that that primary feature of the game wont be ready int ime. 10. Raids.... of all the raids i tested, even with boosted characters i continually died over and over again. The entire mob system is either stupid or intelligent... i.e its too good. All the mobs in a raid would target one person at a time thus insta-killing them and quickly moving through the entire raid defence group. Even if raids did work i just see them as mob bashing still. 11. Talking of Mobs, currently people find it very hard to find which mob to kill, and with the current system people die easily. 12. Exping has slowed greatly, such that a user will have to camp a certain range of mobs over and over alot of times before he can proceed onto the next group. 13. Ive played for a long time, ive been lvl 202 healing magic, lvl 202 offensive magic, lvl 154 2 handed range, ive wrote a guide for ryzom on ranged fighting. Of all these achievements i doubt i will ever reach these lvls with the current system. Ive been to every land, ive played every character multiple times, ive tested all of the current lvling paths melee fight, ranged fight, off magic, def magic, harvesting, crafting. I dont see anything new to keep me interested as well as the other problems i have. 14. The game world is small, you could walk over it all in a day if there wasnt killer aggro mobs that nobody can kill blocking your way. 15. There are no dungeons, instanced or not. Nothing to do other than mob bash. 16. The current missions arent the actual quests but still i dont know how long it takes to make a good story for the game but still if there doing it in the last month till release wont it be a bit rushed?. 17. If 1000 players ever were present on a game server... which i currently doubt ever have been, it would firstly get lagged (as we have seen when we had the FBTA open weekend), and there wouldnt be enough mobs to support the population cause the world is too small. 18. During my open beta days the server population has always been 99999, this has always been a little itch under my skin if u will. They never tell us how many people actually are active on ryzom. As a rough guide on arispotle (Euro English server) at the weddng of shizen ki and Jayce we had 150 odd people playing. Lets say 200 max. Now as the end of the server event id have expected the majority of the population to be present for such an event. If this is the active population of a server then at release when people pay for the game wont the server be a bit deserted?. They never tell us the population number because they dont want us to know how few people play ryzom... is my only guess at the reason. To back this up when the server has got to 1000 max players (thats its max), it lagged to hell. Now it doesnt do that normally so we could say the server has never reached its maximum during normal times. 19. There are still many bugs and balancing issues that have not been sorted for release, 3 months realistically should have been enough to sort these problems. My main dig is at ranged weapons they have never been looked at. No extra skills or abilities for those who choose to use ranged weapons other than the fact they dont even have accelerated attack now or bleeding like they did in Open beta. There are others such as the exp system not balanced correctly and mobs being overpowered, or exploits and the such. 20. Ryzom engine is only 2d, members from the TNE would remember when we went into Kirosta caves in matis in Open Beta... boy was that fun getting attacked from mobs underneath us which we couldnt target nor attack.... Yay! fun. With this if a mob is underneath u it is essentially nexct to u and can attack it at will. At release im sure they wont give people the option to enter wireframe mode and thus try to attack the mob. 21. There are no preorders for the game at amazon.co.uk or at any uk site. now 1-2 months before release this would be alright but 2 weeks before release and people from uk are disadvantaged that they cannot preorder is very bad. Ive asked Gms and they tell me yea we will get that sorted this week.... but still amazon returns "All Products search: we were unable to find exact matches for your search for "ryzom" . Would you like to search again?".......  .
This to me shows bad form for the releasers, to offer a special offer
to those who preorder but a large proportion of your audience cant even
preorder and gain these extras is unfair.22. For release i fear not enough people will play ryzom to make it enjoyable... even if all the other points werent present. IVe seen countless people leave... im one of the original closed beta testers and im prob in the last 20 people of the 5000+ closed beta testers that originally got accepted into beta. It doesnt end there either. During Open Beta people left, people from this site Kid_a, HPM (was a moderator), sasayaski, Mr_E, fozzik,afk4life just because they got bored of the gameplay. It also doesnt end there during FBT over 500+ people have been accepted... now i know lots of people became inactive and left or were banned etc. Shizen,archea,tylantia,jayce. They all left because one or another ryzom had lost its fun. And now i am added to that list .
Overall for me, me and ryzom has too much history, ive lost many
friends playing the game and made new ones. My phrase on every monday
of the FBT was welcoming the new FBTers "more meat for the grinder
eh?". Because they would mainly replace those that had left .
Generally the levels of FBT remained at a rough 150 lvl in klients. So
what does this mean for me? Well ive seen too many people leave the
dropout rate for beta testers is around 96%.23. Ryzom isnt very popular, on many mmorpg sites it gets slated for similar reasons i have listed here. Its got to be brilliant to compete against the likes of EQ 2 and WoW because it doesn have Hype like those games so it needs impress people. Unfortunately i dont think it is good enough to compete vs these mmorpgs. They have more funds, power,people and resources to make much better immersive games. You want an idea of peoples opinions? http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion.cf.../506/setstart/1 . About 50% of the posts are "Ryzom wont succeed" or "Ryzom is dumb". These are from experiened mmorpgs who do pay. Further evidence is the old warbucket competition for the beta places. 500 closed beta places went to Warbucket a World Of Warcraft fansite within a week none of them played ryzom and it was highly slated on their website because of this. 24. During Open Beta my char got wiped... it was a freak of nature. The devs didnt know what went wrong or how it happened basically i was told 'tough luck...'. Now its ok in beta but what if that happened in release? how would they compensate someone? would they?. 25. There will be no trial period, therefore there will be no way for people to see the game as it would be at release, with all the content in it. This would be a good way to attract people into the game but giving the game open beta with no content and nothing in it will just show people the boring grind. There will be nothing to hook them into buying the game. They expect beta testers to preorder on faith alone, unfortunately i have none left. 26. People who preorder get a special 'reward' they get to FBT while the game is still in release... WOW, amazing. Maybe its just me but your paying them to play a game not beta test for them. If you always play on the FBT server then u really arent playing the actual release your just paying to beta test. IMO this is wrong. Of course thge fanatics will get pulled into this offer and will do it for them. But i personally dont expect to pay to beta test a product no matter how much spin is put on it, its still beta testing. 27. Finally i forgot this as one of the earlier reasons..... Magic is impossible to play solo now, with the cast delay even thought the animations are nice they still dont hide the fact your sitiing there for 1.5 seconds to cast a spell while someone wil melee weapon can basically do more damage than you and have more hps than u.
Beta Tested: Lineage 2, Ryzom, City of Heroes, RYL, EverQuest 2 World Of Warcraft European |
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9/19/06 4:32:23 PM#26
To the OP: So what exactly IS the point of SoR then?
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9/19/06 4:36:16 PM#27
Beta Tested: Lineage 2, Ryzom, City of Heroes, RYL, EverQuest 2 World Of Warcraft European |
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9/19/06 4:47:53 PM#28
Which a lot of people do, and tabletop RPing is in, unfortunate, decline. There's a definate appeal to bring the qualities of tabletop RPGs to MMORPGs, indeed the computer games could be greatly improved by learning a thing or two from TTRPGs. I couldn't help but note that many of your complaint/points kinda missed the point as well. :( Postmortem Studios |
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9/19/06 4:53:27 PM#29
My original complaints were against the initial trailers of saga of ryzom where it was actually portrayed like wow or any other class developed game. I was sold on that idea and it changed into what it is today either by lack of development or proper direction. Originally each race had 8 classes and you could only be that class. Each races class was different from another races. I.e a Zorai Heavy Ranged Attacker would have different abilities to that of a Fyros Heavy Ranged Attacker. In its original form how it was advertised and how it was portrayed from its original trailers.... this gamre would have been 10/10 i woulda choose it over wow anyday and i did until i saw no progress towards what i had seen in trailers and the intiial website. So... i kinda missed the point.... or the game missed its own point ;p. That was primary reason for large numbers leaving in beta days, We expected a Sci-Fi rich world with epic battles unique chars and we got a grind fest of unlimited proportions with no restrictions on chars. But thats ages ago. I played wow for 1.5 years and that abated me somewhat but even then all games get boring. I'd say now i prefer non-mmorpgs cause they require less effort... i.e not 4 hrs a night on wow raids.
Beta Tested: Lineage 2, Ryzom, City of Heroes, RYL, EverQuest 2 World Of Warcraft European |
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9/20/06 12:14:40 AM#30
Sounds ghastly, glad they changed it otherwise it would simply be yet another cookie-cutter MMO and would already have failed completely. There are still SF elements, there are still epic battles though we haven't had a kitin invasion in a while, if you don't like grinding - don't grind, it's a matter of player psychology, not the game. Characters are unique, much MORE unique for the game being skill-based than they otherwise would be with a creaking and restrictive class system and everyone chasing the same 'build'. Postmortem Studios |
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Anofalye
Apprentice Member
Joined: 11/19/03
The enemy is so dumb! They believe that WE are the enemy! - A famous orc commander. |
9/20/06 12:47:10 AM#31
Eh Johnny! Ever heard of a game called: City of Villains? I mean, if all you want is to fight, level up, find mobs your levels with relatively FAIR amount of danger... City of Villains is indeed the best MMO on what it does, which most other games don't even understand, even less offer! As to SoR, it is indeed a very nice game, but it has it own logic, feeling. SoR make Vanguard look as noobland! Yet, I have only nice stuff to say about SoR, it was just not for me. However, the tutorial should give the player a good feeling of the game, so he knows what he is buying...rather then be cheated and trapped...yet...the game cost $4 at EBgames shop, I really dunno why someone would bother with a trial and a long download...yet to each their own I guess. Now if you will excuse me, I have more toons to "level up" in CoV! PS: I am kinda a "hoarder" type player...so I can't stand raiding either(unless I would agree to raid, but that is less likely than PvP), since I can't hoard and I feel it should be in my hoardl33t since it is usefull in grouping/soloing(or whatever gameplay I actually partake in)...in CoV there are a few flaws on this aspect, but it can be worked around and...I respect far more PvP over raiding...and it is done to a much lesser extand than in other game enforcing bad gameplays...Johny...come hoard in CoV! - "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - René Levesque about the denial NO on the poll to his dream, project and goal. (Free translation) |
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9/20/06 3:15:27 AM#32
My I assume, that you wrote down these 27 points, as you left 2 years ago? In my humble opinion, your statements are a bit outdated, and some of them are definetly wrong and don't describe the current situation of the game. |
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9/20/06 8:12:15 AM#33
As a new player to the game I couldnt disagree more with that statement, Since coming to the ML I have had 4 people established in the game go out of their way to collect mats to make me 3 sets of armor, numerous weapons, gave me pack animals and even a considerable (by new player standards) amount of money. Bear in mind I did absolutely nothing to solicit this help, this was purely people recognizing the fact i was new trading with me and not taking "No" for an answer, just out of the enjoyment of helping a new person, and welcoming them to the community. Granted That might be taken out of context but this community is beyond a doubt the best I have ever been a part of. People heal and res you simply because you need a heal or res. People will go out of their way to show you where something is personally, and asking a question in /u normally is responded to with 2 or 3 accurate responses, or almost more importantly IMO an "I dont know" if they dont. ( have only seen that twice though. Its small but to some degree thats also a selling point for me. Its something I think all members recognize and as such makes new arrivals an important part of the game as fresh blood is a good thing generally. That being said, I have never seen a more protective community either. Those that play to stay are very watchful of peoples actions and words, and I cant think of one other example of a self-policing community like you will find in SoR. As of this point the only drawback to the game for me is the apparent lack of PvP as most of us know it. or maybe just the lack of successfully implemented PvP. But with every facet of the game so far rating a deserved 10 from me and the community rating a 15 out of 10 it is something I am thinking I might be able to overlook. |
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Chessack
Novice Member
Joined: 4/12/05
"You can always count on players to find the shortest route to the cheese." -- Musashi |
9/20/06 1:27:51 PM#34
I think a lot of the current MMOs really do tell the player what to do (COH -- click on a contact, get a waypoint, go to waypoint, do the mission, return to contact, repeat 1,000,000 times to level 50 -- for example). Players who have "grown up" on a steady diet of the MMORPG equivalent of "carbs", may have trouble switching to the high-protein diet of something sandboxy like Ryzom. C |
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Chessack
Novice Member
Joined: 4/12/05
"You can always count on players to find the shortest route to the cheese." -- Musashi |
9/20/06 1:35:30 PM#35
Because at least by my definition then you no longer have a "Sandbox." A sandbox means "Here are some tools, go do what you want." If you make a pre-defined storyline, such as they have in say COH or GW, then you no longer have a "here are some tools do what you want" situation. You have a "Here are some tools, do what I tell you" situation. You can IGNORE that, of course, but that's true in any non-sandbox game as well (you can play GW and ignore the campaign, for instance). You ignoring the pre-defined storyline doesn't make it fail to exist, nor does it convert the game into a sandbox. Some of us don't need the ready made content and prefer the game NOT to have it, because ready-made content appeals to people who want to be fed a story, and a pure sandbox appeals to people who want to make UP their own story. Those of us who are creative enough to want to make up our own story, want to find others of like mind, to create bigger cooperative stories together. It's easy to do if the game has no "pre defined content" because the only players who stick around will be the ones who don't need it. C |
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Chessack
Novice Member
Joined: 4/12/05
"You can always count on players to find the shortest route to the cheese." -- Musashi |
9/20/06 1:45:17 PM#36
Your question is what Kat is talking about. If you've played Ryzom for any length of time and you even have to ask that question, then you clearly don't get it. Beacus anyone who "got" Ryzom wouldn't be asking that question. I'm not trying to be coy here. Neither is Kat (I know Kat... we're in the same guild in-game). It's that you are asking the wrong question. In a sense, though this is really a very silly way to put it, you might say that the point of Ryzom is that there is no point. To be more specific, the devs decided not to make a point to the game based on what THEY wanted, but rather, to provide a sandbox and let each player decide what the point of playing would be for himself or herself. For those of us who are, shall we say, self-motivated (probably not the best term) enough to develop our own point to playing, Ryzom is awesome. And for those who aren't, well as you can see on this thread, it's "boring." If you need the developers who made your game to tell you what the point is, then Ryzom's probably not for you. On the other hand, if you chafe at having some dev in his ivory tower tell you what the point of the game is, what your character's "role" has to be and that you can't deviate from these things substantially (which is what happens in games like COH or GW), then Ryzom might be for you. The player who misses the point is missing it because he's looking for it in the first place. Ryzom's not going to give you a point. YOU have to provide that. Some people (maybe most people, given its subscription numbers relative to a game like COH even, let alone WOW) would find this a flaw. The OP and I find it a great strength. C |
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9/23/06 6:44:21 AM#37
That is rediculous. you may call that a sandbox, we call that "Lack of content". exploring caves and dungeons, crafting and roleplaying are things I can do in ANY mmorpg. |
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9/23/06 12:01:49 PM#38
I really don't like posting in Forum's due to some peoples reactions. I have played Ryzom since closed beta. I personally love the game and will stick with it to the end. My Opinion of course. This game is not for everyone. But then no game is, and that is good. Everyone has different ideas. There are the power levelers that want to hurry by everything to see if they can get to the top of everything. They want to be center of attention and say Look at me I did it in XX number of days. Good that is you. But they miss so much. There are ones that want to excell in one thing and work at it. Good also. Ryzom you can excell in one or all of the skills. You are not limited to one thing. There are the ones that just want to enjoy game. After all it is a GAME. It is to be enjoyed. It took me a bit to realize there was no skill points for dying. Still have a problem with that. But it is nothing you can't work off, and my guild and I laugh more over what happened. It is nothing to get overly excited about unless you want to do it all in xxx number of hours. I feel a bit sorry for people who just breeze through. There is so much to see, so much to explore, so many times to die :). So many fun things to do and see. I have heard comments about it being hard to learn. Yeah we have nothing that says "click here". After all you have a mind use it. I mean it is a game. Look for stuff, see what is where, oops well ok, so I died won't do that again. Oh yeah I have played other Games. SWG, Guild Wars, Eq2, Silk Road, MxO, and others that right now has left my mind. I liked NONE of them. They were boring and hard for me. I want to play and enjoy not be frustrated. If players have hard time with new starter island they should have been on the old one. We knew nothing. The New starter is a tutorial. it is a learning experience and you come away with rewards. wow. I went to mainland with a pig sticker and some really bad armor. Also there is no Perfect game for everyone. I know people are looking for it but it is not out there. Thank goodness we don't have elves, and dungeons and things like that. We have one of the greatest communities in all MMORPG's. We have one of the greatest CSR teams there is in all MMO's or any game. One game I played I had trouble even getting game to work. took the support 3 weeks to get back to my email. I don't think in Ryzom I have ever had to wait more than 2-3 mins and that is during a busy time of day. I like that players and CSR watches the language, it is a game not a place to show off how many stupid words you know or to see just how stupid you can act. I like my grandkids (yeap) to play and not have to worry about some person harrassing them. Probably the most mature community there is. If you arent Mature than this is not the game for you. Good luck to everyone who is seeking the game for you. If not Ryzom hope you find it and are happy in it. |
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9/23/06 1:54:34 PM#39
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9/23/06 2:19:08 PM#40
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It would be more appropriate to say I hoard levels than to say that I gain levels...since in all honesty, I hoard them! Hundreds/thousands of AAs to hoard in old EQ...that was cool...if it wouldn't have been for raiding...
